Hawkfan no shipment of knife, no refund

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calemerson

calemerson

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Bought and paid for Medford TFF-4 $240 PayPal G&S on Nov 24. Got a pic of USPS first class label on Nov 24 with additional comments that tracking updates are slow from this location.
Sent another message 11/30/2021 just saying that the tracking was still not updated. Got a reply " Hey man I meant to send you a message earlier. Something weird happened the detent ball fell out. Basically saying he could just send me the detent ball less medford or give me a refund. I ask for a refund.

Checked on the refund yesterday, said he would do it by yesterday afternoon. No refund.
Than I got another message here on BF
Do you use cash app or belle? The funds haven't come into my PayPal account yet but I have the money in my bank America account so I can send you the money via zelle. The money needs to be refunded the same way I paid, PayPal.

I reported these message conversations to the MODs.
 
calemerson said:
Bought and paid for Medford TFF-4 $240 PayPal G&S on Nov 24. Got a pic of USPS first class label on Nov 24 with additional comments that tracking updates are slow from this location.
Sent another message 11/30/2021 just saying that the tracking was still not updated. Got a reply " Hey man I meant to send you a message earlier. Something weird happened the detent ball fell out. Basically saying he could just send me the detent ball less medford or give me a refund. I ask for a refund.

Checked on the refund yesterday, said he would do it by yesterday afternoon. No refund.
Than I got another message here on BF
Do you use cash app or belle? The funds haven't come into my PayPal account yet but I have the money in my bank America account so I can send you the money via zelle. The money needs to be refunded the same way I paid, PayPal.

I reported these message conversations to the MODs.
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I issued the refund an hour after it was filed. I didn't have any money in the paypal account but do in my bank account, that's why I asked you if you used any other services so you would get the money faster than the 3-5 day transfer but this works too.
 
Alpha556 said:
The funds might be on hold by paypal but the seller can still refund... Im pretty sure.
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When an account is empty, the system will subtract the dispute amount making the account negative but I guess they still wait for you to add the funds to the account before they give it to the dispute opener so they're not really holding it. This is the message I got when I clicked on "Issue Full Refund"

 
calemerson said:
My PayPal account is linked directly to my bank. If I buy something or issue a refund it happens immediately.
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I only have one bank account and it's linked to my other paypal account that was for a business I had which I don't use it for knife transactions to keep the records separate. I've never needed my personal account (the one you paid) to be linked to a bank account because I don't use it if there's no money in it. In our current situation, I first transfer funds into my other paypal account and then send it to my personal account.

If it was connected to a bank account, then it would have worked the same way yours does. I never had a reason to so this paypal account was simply never linked to a bank account. Actually, it was linked to my current bank account originally but when I started my other account for my business, I had to unlink it from this account in order to be able to link it to the other one. So that's why my personal paypal account (the one you paid) wasn't linked to a bank account.

I still don't think anything I did was shady. Shady would have been mailing the knife to you without telling you about the detent ball falling out. Or shady would have been making the decisions on my own without your input.

And I don't see how asking you if you use any other payment platforms was a bad thing. Most people use more than one payment platform so if you had an account, I don't see how trying to get you paid faster was viewed as something negative. Zelle and Cash app have instant transfers so I asked just in case you needed the cash right away, unlike paypals 3-5 day delay

I'm sorry if you felt like you were being scammed, maybe I could have done something differently. I didn't think much about it since I only accept Paypal G&S which provides buyer protection. I didn't think you had anything to worry about. I don't even give people the option to use Friends and Family payments specifically to avoid any bs. The only way you could have gotten screwed is if I was willing to throw away my paypal account permanently but who would do that, especially for a two hundred dollar knife... Also, just so you're aware. Printing a label doesn't mean anything when the package isn't received by the post office. If you were being scammed, I would have to print the label and then ship you a box with a rock inside of it or something. By me printing a label and not shipping, that's basically proof that you're not being scammed because that's literally me telling Paypal that I never actually shipped the package. I can see how things might have looked from your side, it was an unusual situation for sure. Anyways, I hope that all made sense and sorry for any confusion.
 
Well I have no knife I paid for on Nov 24 and no refund, but I did get a hey man I meant to send you a message on Nov 30 that the detent ball fell out after I ask about no tracking updates on the knife.
 
Hawkfan said:
I only have one bank account and it's linked to my other paypal account that was for a business I had which I don't use it for knife transactions to keep the records separate. I've never needed my personal account (the one you paid) to be linked to a bank account because I don't use it if there's no money in it. In our current situation, I first transfer funds into my other paypal account and then send it to my personal account.

If it was connected to a bank account, then it would have worked the same way yours does. I never had a reason to so this paypal account was simply never linked to a bank account. Actually, it was linked to my current bank account originally but when I started my other account for my business, I had to unlink it from this account in order to be able to link it to the other one. So that's why my personal paypal account (the one you paid) wasn't linked to a bank account.

I still don't think anything I did was shady. Shady would have been mailing the knife to you without telling you about the detent ball falling out. Or shady would have been making the decisions on my own without your input.

And I don't see how asking you if you use any other payment platforms was a bad thing. Most people use more than one payment platform so if you had an account, I don't see how trying to get you paid faster was viewed as something negative. Zelle and Cash app have instant transfers so I asked just in case you needed the cash right away, unlike paypals 3-5 day delay

I'm sorry if you felt like you were being scammed, maybe I could have done something differently. I didn't think much about it since I only accept Paypal G&S which provides buyer protection. I didn't think you had anything to worry about. I don't even give people the option to use Friends and Family payments specifically to avoid any bs. The only way you could have gotten screwed is if I was willing to throw away my paypal account permanently but who would do that, especially for a two hundred dollar knife... Also, just so you're aware. Printing a label doesn't mean anything when the package isn't received by the post office. If you were being scammed, I would have to print the label and then ship you a box with a rock inside of it or something. By me printing a label and not shipping, that's basically proof that you're not being scammed because that's literally me telling Paypal that I never actually shipped the package. I can see how things might have looked from your side, it was an unusual situation for sure. Anyways, I hope that all made sense and sorry for any confusion.
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That's a whole lot of words to say "I screwed up and spent the money I got from you before I even shipped out your knife" 🙄. There's no excuse for clearing out your PayPal account before the buyer receives the knife and is happy with it.
 
WValtakis said:
That's a whole lot of words to say "I screwed up and spent the money I got from you before I even shipped out your knife" 🙄. There's no excuse for clearing out your PayPal account before the buyer receives the knife and is happy with it.
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Easy, fella. Yes, I agree it is more efficient to leave the money in until you hear someone is happy but some people never get back to you to tell you they received it. It’s not like it’s a rule or something. If I’m getting a refund, I can wait the 2-3 extra days, if that fact is communicated to me. It’s not like the guy has a shady history here. Not everyone needs to be made out to be a crook or scoundrel. The guy apologized and offered an explanation, I don’t think he needs you raking him over the coals for asinine things like “length of his response”.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Easy, fella. Yes, I agree it is more efficient to leave the money in until you hear someone is happy but some people never get back to you to tell you they received it. It’s not like it’s a rule or something. If I’m getting a refund, I can wait the 2-3 extra days, if that fact is communicated to me. It’s not like the guy has a shady history here. Not everyone needs to be made out to be a crook or scoundrel. The guy apologized and offered an explanation, I don’t think he needs you raking him over the coals for asinine things like “length of his response”.
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Actually, "the deal isn't done until both parties are happy" is a rule here...albeit unwritten. If the deal isn't done then the money is not the seller's to spend yet.
 
calemerson said:
Well I have no knife I paid for on Nov 24 and no refund, but I did get a hey man I meant to send you a message on Nov 30 that the detent ball fell out after I ask about no tracking updates on the knife.
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My priorities got screwed up and in the back of my mind I thought I would be able to figure out a way to get funds into my paypal or we could use another app...bigtime fail.
 
WValtakis said:
Actually, "the deal isn't done until both parties are happy" is a rule here...albeit unwritten. If the deal isn't done then the money is not the seller's to spend yet.
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A rule isn’t a rule if it isn’t written down, is it?

In any case, I conceded it is more appropriate to wait so there isn’t a delay in money transfers, but don’t make the guy out to be some crook just because the drama is appealing. He isn’t. It isn’t like he took the money and ran.
 
WValtakis said:
Actually, "the deal isn't done until both parties are happy" is a rule here...albeit unwritten. If the deal isn't done then the money is not the seller's to spend yet.
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I do agree that this should be a standard practice...but in all honestly, after selling over a thousand knives literally, I've never had anyone be unhappy with the accuracy of my description of the knife so I didn't think I would need to hold off on spending the money. And the reality is that I usually only sell because I need the money for something so it's essentially spent before I even get it. Here is my Seller feedback for my dedicated knife account on ebay. These are 100% all knife sales and if you know anything about selling on Ebay, than you know these buyers are the most hardcore sticklers on the planet with zero tolerance for even the smallest thing.

And yes, long explanations aren't the best but I'm simply addressing the concerns brought up. The bottom line is that there was no malicious intent. But I could have handled the situation better, completely on me.

 
Hawkfan said:
My priorities got screwed up and in the back of my mind I thought I would be able to figure out a way to get funds into my paypal or we could use another app...bigtime fail.
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Going 6 days without communicating was your big time fail.
Paratrooper06 said:
A rule isn’t a rule if it isn’t written down, is it?
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Sometimes it is.
 
I just listed 2 knives for sale in the hopes of re-couping the $240 I have lost.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Easy, fella. Yes, I agree it is more efficient to leave the money in until you hear someone is happy but some people never get back to you to tell you they received it. It’s not like it’s a rule or something. If I’m getting a refund, I can wait the 2-3 extra days, if that fact is communicated to me. It’s not like the guy has a shady history here. Not everyone needs to be made out to be a crook or scoundrel. The guy apologized and offered an explanation, I don’t think he needs you raking him over the coals for asinine things like “length of his response”.
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I don't wait until I hear back, which often doesn't happen. I do however wait until it is delivered(mail is always a gamble) and a little time to hear back. In this case he didn't even wait until it was mailed. Things got a little screwed up by the seller, but hopefully all will get worked out with a bit of Patience. I think this will be resolved in a couple days. If not the OP can still file a claim and let PP work it out.
I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about this one- at least at this time
The one negative I see possibly coming up is if the seller does a straight refund through PP the fees may be lost. IMO the seller should eat those rather than the OP. The seller may want to anticipate and get ahead of this, if he hasn't already.
 
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Hawkfan said:
I do agree that this should be a standard practice...but in all honestly, after selling over a thousand knives literally, I've never had anyone be unhappy with the accuracy of my description of the knife so I didn't think I would need to hold off on spending the money. And the reality is that I usually only sell because I need the money for something so it's essentially spent before I even get it. Here is my Seller feedback for my dedicated knife account on ebay. These are 100% all knife sales and if you know anything about selling on Ebay, than you know these buyers are the most hardcore sticklers on the planet with zero tolerance for even the smallest thing.

And yes, long explanations aren't the best but I'm simply addressing the concerns brought up. The bottom line is that there was no malicious intent. But I could have handled the situation better, completely on me.

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That's still a lot of words and a big ass picture that doesn't really change the situation ;)

You should not be moving the money around in a way that you can't refund the buyer immediately, until after the buyer has received the item. Looks like you did so before it even shipped. Lesson learned I hope!
 
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