Heat Treating Minus The Hype

[BMK]

STEP 1: Subtract all hype from the equation, say "NO" to groupthink, don't worship false idols and always be rational.

STEP 2: Make a blade

STEP 3: Heat

STEP 4: Quench followed by more heat

STEP 5: Test

 

[JBS TOOLMAKER]

Wow is that some kind of supersteel that you only heat to 488 ?

 

[Fred.Rowe]

You are doing a real disservice to people that frequent this forum. Especially newer people who are trying to understand steel and what the different heat treatments are for and what they should be shooting for in a well heat treated knife.

Your interpretation of heat treatment makes it seem as if there is no more involved than grinding a blade, heating it up, dunking it in some kind of oil and hell, you've made a great knife.

That Sir, is BC.

 

[Frank Niro]

Oink, onik, oink. Frank

 

[Rick Marchand]

Is that what the hardness reads right out of the quench, Jeff?

What type of steel?

I think you are over-simplifying. It would be just as easy for me to sum up knifemaking as...

1. Make a blade.
2. Put a handle on it.
3. Make a sheath.
4. Sharpen as needed.

It is not wrong... but it isn't right either. Oil temps, Steel type, Soak, edge thickness, tempering.... ALL that you have learned from others? Come on, buddy. I know you're messin around, but this isn't winning you friends.

Rick

 

[BMK]

Thanks - I added "quench followed by more heat". The hardness was tested after heat treat. Heat, quench, heat at 400F 2hrs - cool x2 test

Is that what the hardness reads right out of the quench, Jeff?

 

[Rick Marchand]

I added to my post, Jeff..... you beat my edit.

 

[BMK]

You point is well taken. However, it is also very wrong to pedal hype to people. The fact is, my simplification is closer to the truth than the self aggrandizing dissertations that proliferate here. You are not a purveyor of hype and neither is "Tony". Think of "Tony" and I as a counterbalance - lol.

Is that what the hardness reads right out of the quench, Jeff?

What type of steel?

I think you are over-simplifying. It would be just as easy for me to sum up knifemaking as...

1. Make a blade.
2. Put a handle on it.
3. Make a sheath.
4. Sharpen as needed.

It is not wrong... but it isn't right either. Oil temps, Steel type, Soak, edge thickness, tempering.... ALL that you have learned from others? Come on, buddy. I know you're messin around, but this isn't winning you friends.

Rick

 

[Rick Marchand]

Actually, no it is not closer to truth because nobody can follow your steps, Jeff. At least the wacked out hype pushers give thorough instruction.

What is the steel you are using? Serious question.


Rick

 

[BMK]

I am still laughing at the term "hype pushers". If there are "hype pushers" it would stand to reason that consumers of hype are "hype junkies". I use 01 almost exclusively.
...In the battle against fraud, hyperbole is an effective counterbalance.

Actually, no it is not closer to truth because nobody can follow your steps, Jeff. At least the wacked out hype pushers give thorough instruction.

What is the steel you are using? Serious question.


Rick

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I think you might should read about the Dunning Kruger effect and think about how it may apply to you and your assertion about heat treat and hype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect


There is a lot of hype about a lot of things. But there is frequently complication in places for a good reason. Heat treat can be as simple as heating up microwave chicken strips. And so can food.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Hype pushers and hype junkies are real, I'm afraid.

In all seriousness, your O1 should be up around 62HRC after a 400F temper.... especially since you are using a kiln. Either your heats are off or the canola isn't cutting it. Probably the canola. You have great equipment. Get some engineered quenchant and watch your knives improve even more. Check tony's notes on the O1 heat treat schedule... are you soaking at the lower temp prior to ramping up to quench temp?

I wish I had an Rockwell tester.... luckyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Rick

 

[artificialj]

I think you might should read about the Dunning Kruger effect and think about how it may apply to you and your assertion about heat treat and hype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Haha! The opening sentence on that article had me crying laughing. I had to calm down to read more of it.

Well played.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

When you're incompetent, everything you don't understand tends to get written off as "hype" or "group think".

 

[BMK]

I was shooting for 58-60. Actually 425 on the second two hour temper cycle. Yes, soak and ramp up. pm me and I will give you the exact figures. You forgot more than I will ever know about this stuff - stop kidding around!

The rockwell tester is a heat treating company in Ft Worth, minutes from my shop.

Thank you, I do have great equipment - now all I need are a few more brain cells.

Hype pushers and hype junkies are real, I'm afraid.

In all seriousness, your O1 should be up around 62HRC after a 400F temper.... especially since you are using a kiln. Either your heats are off or the canola isn't cutting it. Probably the canola. You have great equipment. Get some engineered quenchant and watch your knives improve even more. Check tony's notes on the O1 heat treat schedule... are you soaking at the lower temp prior to ramping up to quench temp?

I wish I had an Rockwell tester.... luckyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Rick

 

[BMK]

Interesting read - thank you. The Dunning Kruger effect would relevant to this discussion IF "Tony" was unable to make and heat treat a knife that would do anything a knife might be called upon to do. If "Tony" were unable to make and heat treat a quality knife, then and only then would your post be relevant. Good initiative on your part but tempered (pun intended) with poor judgement carry on...

BTW If you pedal hype and know is false, you are a scoundrel. If you pedal hype and believe it to be true you are delusional.

I think you might should read about the Dunning Kruger effect and think about how it may apply to you and your assertion about heat treat and hype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect


There is a lot of hype about a lot of things. But there is frequently complication in places for a good reason. Heat treat can be as simple as heating up microwave chicken strips. And so can food.

 

[SteelSlaver]

So I just take some O1 and heat it up for a while then stick it in any old oil and the heat it some more and I've got the max out of it for a knife. And here I have been finding out the best temp to take it to before quenching, holding for a soak time, thinking that moving the blade in a slicing motion in the oil instead of just waving it around in the oil was best. Then, I have been going through the hassle of heating it to a certain temperature to achieve a desired hardness. When if I could simple wham bam everything a whatever temp and hit the perfect hardness of 59.8 The fact that I use 5160, D2 and 1095 won't mater either then just hit them all the same. I am also glad to know that all knives of that RC are equal .Geeeee thanks what a load off.

Got to give it to Texans, they sure can be simple!

Sorry about the hard time. I am sure the 2 knives you are holding in the picture are just fine.

 

[dperk]

I'm completely new and not able to HT anything, but after reading this, I don't think it helped me at all. I'd call this a 10,000 foot view of HT for the less than intelligent audience.

I think that 'most' of the makers are at least average intelligence and will know that there is a whole lot more to it than what is described above. I do love the pictures of the nice equipment, but companies like Peter's wouldn't be around if HT was so simple.

I believe that it's more of a science that a cracker jack box recipe. There is no mention of steel types, so this almost implies that I could take a Home Depot flat stock and turn it into a knife if I have a good kiln and a bottle of canola?

I'm honestly not trying to stir the pot, but I'm not sure what audience this post is targeted to? I thought it may be for a total noob like me, but this didn't help me.

 

[lazlo]

I think you might should read about the Dunning Kruger effect and think about how it may apply to you and your assertion about heat treat and hype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Thanks for that Nate -- classic!!

 

[GTH11]

You have officially earned my vote with this one BMK!! Cool kiln, and R/C tester, "tony", your a full fledge knifemaker in what.. under a year! I hope to see you at the shows soon!