Heat Treating Minus The Hype

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Barley cleaned up the surface. The hardness test was also done on the last part to enter the CANOLA OIL - the tang. Once I complete the convex bevel I will be 59-61.

Brian Ayres said:
Serious question Jeff, How far down did you grind for decarb? Maybe you're at a lower hardness than you should be because of a false read?
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I'm a new person interested in making knives. I'm not going to say that I'm not confused with an overload of information, which I am. However, I am interested in using different types of materials that require different types of tempering and quenching. I have learned that and a lot more from all of the good people on here. Maybe that is "hype"? Maybe not. Let people do what they want to do. Of everything I have read here, the fact that knife making at its core is a simple process, is what makes it so compelling.

I am making a knife out of 1084, and will be quenching it with canola. Maybe I need a super-furnace to do it. If I follow the simplistic instructions here. :jerkit:
 
There are 10 pages, 181 replies and 4,717 views of a recent forum post titled: "No Alternative To Parks 50".

I post a dissenting idea which directly relates to that same popular post (see above) and many of you become unhinged. Are you guys for real?
 
There are 10 pages, 181 replies and 4,717 views of a recent forum post titled: "No Alternative To Parks 50".

I post a dissenting idea which directly relates to a very recent popular post (see above) and many of you become unhinged. Are you guys for real? Never feel threatened by a guy who can't make a knife and never served in the military.

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"At some point you will realize that you are outnumbered and outgunned." ~ Tony
 
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BMK said:
Dissent from groupthink is not trolling.
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No groupthink here; simply your inability to accept reality.

Tony and I serve as a two primate counterbalance to hype.
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You serve as a source of misinformation and general ill will in an otherwise great forum.

6 months ago the same groupthinkers claimed I could not make a knife
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You've assembled some kit knives and made a few knife like objects. Want a cookie?
 
Why are you all feeding the troll and then complaining about him?

Don't ask me to ban the man, you can ban him for yourself:
put him on Ignore and click on someone else's thread instead.
 
Over 10 posts an hour. Damn, BMK, I wish I could get that much traffic. You really know how to motivate people!
 
I started as a non-knife maker and now I make "knife like objects". Thank you, I am making progress! Coming from a real knifemaker (like you), I take that as a compliment.

Mitchell Knives said:
No groupthink here; simply your inability to accept reality.



You serve as a source of misinformation and general ill will in an otherwise great forum.



You've assembled some kit knives and made a few knife like objects. Want a cookie?
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Thanks! I posted an alternative to Parks 50 and heat treating in general and they keep coming! This is a friendly place as long as you agree with the mob.

alb1k said:
Over 10 posts an hour. Damn, BMK, I wish I could get that much traffic. You really know how to motivate people!
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BMK said:

Are you guys for real? You should not feel threatened by a guy who can't make a knife and never served in the military.
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I assure you, I am far from threatened by you. It is not that you think knife making is simple...It is the feeble minded, childish way you present yourself. You add nothing to these forums...you are like the loud, annoying kid in the library. Ever notice that every thread that you DO NOT post in is drama free? That is because we are here to learn and to share our information, however regurgitated you feel it is, with people with less experience with this great art form. Some of us have experience where others do not...And we happily share information...you just come in, spout a bunch of garbage and start fights....Be simple, be archaic, but put your monkey away..grow and come back and act like an adult.
 
This is what its all about, real knives made by real knife makers. Inspirational

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That is sage advice, thank you.

Allow me to try again: "Knife making is an arcane process that is mastered by a few very select village elders and heat treating is a religious ceremony that is incomprehensible to mortals."

Hows that? Are we friends now?

Mike Davis said:
I assure you, I am far from threatened by you. It is not that you think knife making is simple...It is the feeble minded, childish way you present yourself. You add nothing to these forums...you are like the loud, annoying kid in the library. Ever notice that every thread that you DO NOT post in is drama free? That is because we are here to learn and to share our information, however regurgitated you feel it is, with people with less experience with this great art form. Some of us have experience where others do not...And we happily share information...you just come in, spout a bunch of garbage and start fights....Be simple, be archaic, but put your monkey away..grow and come back and act like an adult.
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Everyone is (self included) being a bit immature about this. Someone ACTUALLY looking for HT tips is going to read the opening post, find no useful information and keep searching. Any smart person will research the poop out of something before they commit to testing it on something they've worked hard on. ESPECIALLY a newb who doesn't want to stuff up their first knife that they're proud as punch of. The only thing this thread will do is get a whole lot of people angry and BMK hated more.

What were we taught back in the playground? Don't react and the attention seeker doesn't get anything out of it.
 
It might be simple to google a recipe and follow it, but experimentation and understanding of how metals behave under specific conditions leads to better knives. More knowledge and "recipes" means a knifemaker can design a knife for a specific purpose. A one size fits all approach may yield usable knives; however, achieving a higher level of understanding and refining technique will result in more options for the knifemaker to create a knife for various specific purposes. Different steels behave differently and they require different methods of heat treatment. This is obvious. The methods to follow for each particular steel to result in a specific Rockwell hardness may be straightforward, but someone had to figure all of that out.

I'm sure with the right equipment and a recipe just about anyone could make and heat treat a knife. Would it be the best knife for their intended purpose? Not necessarily. I agree that there is a lot of hype regarding heat treatment because of advertising and marketing, but metallurgy is a real science that yields real improvements in everything from making new and improved varieties of steel to refining techniques to achieve specific goals (aka fulfilling the intention of the knifemaker with regard to the particular knife).

So while heat treatment may be a simple matter of following a recipe, someone had to make that recipe. It took a lot of knowledge and experimentation to come up with the different processes for each type of steel. Getting the most out of the blade requires that the person making the knife know which recipe to follow.

There isn't really any mystery here. It's all science. I'm sure I could make an ok knife with the right equipment and a recipe, but someone with more knowledge of metallurgy or more experience making knives would make a superior blade to mine. I don't really know what hardness is best for specific applications or what steels benefit from higher hardness levels or which steels perform better at a lower hardness. I know a little about it, but the people who put in the time to do some research and experimentation will become much more proficient and knowledgeable on the subject. They'll be able to make a better knife than someone off the street who knows nothing. They can tailor the blade to whatever task they want it to do.

This is true for just about everything. I can follow a recipe in a cookbook and even improvise a little, but I'm not a professional chef. People who research a topic and hone their craft become skilled. This is undeniable and frankly I don't see why the OP wants to argue it.
 
Well done! Finally...a well reasoned and rational reply - THANK YOU. Like most things in life, the heavy lifting was done by someone who came before us and we should all be grateful for their effort. I am not contending the point you make. Their heavy lifting makes what I and most of what all knife makers do relatively SIMPLE.

Fanglekai said:
It might be simple to google a recipe and follow it, but experimentation and understanding of how metals behave under specific conditions leads to better knives. More knowledge and "recipes" means a knifemaker can design a knife for a specific purpose. A one size fits all approach may yield usable knives; however, achieving a higher level of understanding and refining technique will result in more options for the knifemaker to create a knife for various specific purposes. Different steels behave differently and they require different methods of heat treatment. This is obvious. The methods to follow for each particular steel to result in a specific Rockwell hardness may be straightforward, but someone had to figure all of that out.

I'm sure with the right equipment and a recipe just about anyone could make and heat treat a knife. Would it be the best knife for their intended purpose? Not necessarily. I agree that there is a lot of hype regarding heat treatment because of advertising and marketing, but metallurgy is a real science that yields real improvements in everything from making new and improved varieties of steel to refining techniques to achieve specific goals (aka fulfilling the intention of the knifemaker with regard to the particular knife).

So while heat treatment may be a simple matter of following a recipe, someone had to make that recipe. It took a lot of knowledge and experimentation to come up with the different processes for each type of steel. Getting the most out of the blade requires that the person making the knife know which recipe to follow.

There isn't really any mystery here. It's all science. I'm sure I could make an ok knife with the right equipment and a recipe, but someone with more knowledge of metallurgy or more experience making knives would make a superior blade to mine. I don't really know what hardness is best for specific applications or what steels benefit from higher hardness levels or which steels perform better at a lower hardness. I know a little about it, but the people who put in the time to do some research and experimentation will become much more proficient and knowledgeable on the subject. They'll be able to make a better knife than someone off the street who knows nothing. They can tailor the blade to whatever task they want it to do.

This is true for just about everything. I can follow a recipe in a cookbook and even improvise a little, but I'm not a professional chef. People who research a topic and hone their craft become skilled. This is undeniable and frankly I don't see why the OP wants to argue it.
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The process may be simple but the point still stands that it takes someone with knowledge to know which recipe to follow to make the knife perform the intended task. Knowing which steel to use and what hardness would achieve the best performance is where things get complicated.

Sure someone could perform the rote task of heat treating a knife without knowing anything about the process and end up with amazing knives if someone who knows how to get the most out of the steel gave the person the required instruction and recipe. That's where the knowledge of the knifemaker comes into play: knowing how to get the most out of each blade instead of just making a knife that's merely usable.

Aside from that crafting a beautiful knife is an art. That is definitely not easy by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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