Help Me Pick the Next Fell Beast Steel: Z Tuff Vs. 52100

Which Steel do you want?

  • Z Tuff 61+ RC $549

    Votes: 25 71.4%

  • 52100 with DHT $399

    Votes: 10 28.6%
  • Total voters
    35
One heck of a video, kind of reminds me of Carothers stuff. Did you come up with a price on the promotional run on the 27th? Looking forward to seeing what these are capable of 🤔. Ok I opened my eyes and found out the price at $399 without sheath, sheath cost approximate? Thanks
 
woodysone said:
One heck of a video, kind of reminds me of Carothers stuff. Did you come up with a price on the promotional run on the 27th? Looking forward to seeing what these are capable of 🤔. Ok I opened my eyes and found out the price at $399 without sheath, sheath cost approximate? Thanks
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Price on the Prototype run for Thursday is $349 and I'm covering CONUS shipping. Sheath price is $65.

I planned to include the sheath free of charge but these ended up costing much more to mill than anticipated so it ate up all the margins for the sheath. :confused:
 
I just remembered that I have a 1:45 appointment at the VA in Springfield (Missouri), which is about 70 miles from home. We will have to speed like the Devil to get home in time for the sale, but we will try. I REALLY want one of those prototypes !
 
GET HYPED YALL. Just got these back from the mill today. Will have these ready and sent to heat treat in a few days time. The Z Tuff run looks fantastic and is clocking in at a svelte 24 ounces with terotuff scales. The fuller cuts out a full 2 ounces of weight. As long as there are no issues with HT these should be ready for order in 1-2 weeks.

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Wow 😲

What's the thickness behind the edge? Have you done any testing yet, to see how (or when) it dents / rolls / chips?

Definitely hyped for this Z Tuff !
 
Currawong said:
Wow 😲

What's the thickness behind the edge? Have you done any testing yet, to see how (or when) it dents / rolls / chips?

Definitely hyped for this Z Tuff !
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These will be .030 behind the edge. I have not tested the Z Tuff yet but once they get back from HT, Ill put one through the wringer. If the Z Tuff is truly as tough as its billed, I'm going to hand grind some of these ultra thin and make a special "Laser Edition" Fell Beast.
 
August 27, 2024 Update: These are currently at heat treat. They will be done in a few days. Once they are back and I've completed some testing, I will have 50 available for order on the knifemakers for sale area. I will post a thread here with instructions before the sale.

These came out at .142 thick and finish will be stonewashed. Handle options are green, grey, and navy blue TeroTuf. :thumbsup:
Price is $549 shipped I'll be covering sales tax as well. I will have some discounts available for those who are first to order + some discounts for repeat customers.

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I drove to Kowalski HT in Cleveland today and picked up all 99 of these. Talk about excitement. I've been waiting 6 months for this moment.

Even though it was dark when I got back to my shop, I put the Z tuff through its paces This stuff lives up to its name. I put a blade in the vice and gave it a bend test with a long lever. It went well over 120 degrees and returned true multiple times. For me, how well a blade does in the lateral bend test is a great indicator of overall durability and resistance to crack formation. I will take one to failure tomorrow after more extensive edge testing has been performed. I did some edge tests with two different BTE thicknesses, .030 and .015. Z tuff performs very well with a thin edge. Unless you are hitting rocks, gravel or an I- beam (I did all three tonight), you will not damage the edge on one of these even at .015BTE thickness. It will blast through the hardest hardwoods with ease. If you want to cut up an I beam, I suggest a bandsaw. 😅

The GOOD with Z Tuff
- Hardness came out at 61. With deep cryo and the right temper, this stuff can get very hard while retaining incredible toughness. I think this is the toughest 60+ RC steel in the world hands down.
- Lateral strength is the best I've ever tested in a vice.
- Edge stability is elite, although in my testing I do not see a significant difference between Z tuff or 52100 when doing things like chopping nails. Both can handle a very thin edge without failure.
- Stain resistance appears to be good so far. Similar to 3V.
-Edge retention and aggressiveness of cuts was excellent for a chopper steel when slicing up cardboard. Z Tuff is definitely a step up in edge retention. Its not 10V, but you can feel the carbide content and hardness gliding through material when you are cutting. This is perhaps the biggest difference I noticed vs. 52100. 52100 takes a great edge but is not an aggressive cutter and dulls quickly. Z Tuff has an entirely different feel when going through cardboard. This stuff can CUT!

The BAD with Z Tuff
- Warpage prone. All Fell beasts I've ever made have some degree of warpage but Z Tuff warps more than I would like. This is why I am using Kowalski HT, they say they specialize in Pain in the @$$ jobs. I think a 2 foot long by .150in thick knife definitely qualifies .
- From my CNC guy, 3-4X as hard on endmills as 52100.
-Expensive

There's a reason no one else makes blades like these. Have to custom roll the steel, difficult to mill, expensive to heat treat, difficult to straighten, difficult to finish. What did JFK say about doing things that are hard? :p You know you are making something special whenever there is difficulty.


NEXT UP, blanchard grinding the flats, stone washing, and logos. And of course a video documenting how ridiculously tough this steel is. :cool:

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These look truly awesome. How long is it going to take you to sharpen all of those?
 
Albert Alcalde said:
How do I sharpen this machete at home?
Can I use the wicked edge sharpener?
What angle?
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Edge angle is 20 degrees per side. I have never used a wicked edge before but I imagine you could sharpen it in segments with one.

Sharpening on sandpaper with a stiff backing is the easiest and most cost effective method. Also more forgiving than a stone!
 
They look great and z tuff sounds like some serious steel, would love to get one to partner up with my new 52100 fell beast but the budget says not this year 😳. I cannot speak for the z tuff fell beast but the 52100 one is awesome. It hits like a truck.
 
Did some seriously extreme destruction testing today. I'm absolutely blown away by the results. I wanted to test a few things:

1. Q-How do cracks form and propagate in this steel?---> A- this steel is extremely resistant to crack formation and when the edge does crack and breakdown during an impact, the crack does not propagate but instead stays localized.
2. Q- Does carbide peening during the straightening process affect durability? A- No, even with very extensive hammering beyond what is required to straighten, durability was not affected.
3. Q- Could I get the entire blade to break, or break a bevel completely through repeated impacts with reasonable force?---> A- HELL NO.
4. Q- When put in a vice and flexed to its elastic limit, does the blade violently snap, or plastically deform?---> A- Plastic deformation.

Here's what I did for testing. This blade had already seen lots of hard impacts and had taken two bends past 90 degrees. I promise I will make a video next time!
1. I peened the hell out of the blade with my carbide straightening hammer beyond what is normally needed to fix warps and peened in multiple sections including the handle, mid blade, and the bevel. I do not peen bevels during my straightening process. I did all the chopping on the area of the bevel that was peened.
2. I did over 100 chops into a piece of steel tubing.
3. I did a 90 degree bend test after this and it survived without deformation.
4. I did 50 chops into the edge of a thick piece of angle iron. This is where most of the edge blow outs came from
5. I took the damaged blade to 120 degrees in the vice (the furthest I can go) and it bent very slightly but was still good and usable.
6. 100 strikes into the spine with a hammer, with the edge braced against steel tubing.

After this, I was satisfied.

Conclusion: Z TUFF IS THE REAL DEAL, Even with the 400 degree low temper, cryo and 61RC hardness (this is not the HT for maximum toughness) Z Tuff is incredibly resistance to crack formation and catastrophic failure. I could not get the blade to snap even after a ridiculous number of impacts alternated with extreme flexion.

Z tuff was originally developed as a coin die steel where the dies needed a combination of high hardness, wear resistance, and resistance to cracking and catastrophic failure. All these properties make for an excellent hard use knife steel. The metallurgists that developed this really got the formula right and with the HT I am using, Z tuff is my #1 pick for big blades that see impact after all the factors are weighed.

Z Tuff is officially apocalypse worthy.

Here's the aftermath
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Below is a picture of the edge after 50+ chops into the corner of structural steel. You can see that when cracks form they are taking an arc formation and are not travelling vertically up into the blade. This is a very good sign.

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Also you can see in this picture just how amazingly fine the grain structure is. While I don't have a microscope, this is some seriously fine grain.

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Finally, here is a picture showing the carbide peening marks. Tapping the blade in the area where warpage is occuring with a carbide hammer is how I straighten my blades that don't come back from heat treat perfectly straight. All of the the impacts were done in the area with extensive peeing. Also, this section of the blade sees the most flexion when you put the blade in a vice and bend it.

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Leviathan Arms said:
Really solid testing. To say those blades came out nicely seems to be an understatement.
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I can't wait to see how these look after flat grinding and stonewashing. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas 😄

The Z Tuff is awesome. The only real problem is that its highly prone to warpage and the warpage can be hard to correct. Its alot like 3V in that regard. I'll have to work on the HT process and see what we can do to get these things to lay flat. I know a small amount of warpage doesn't affect performance and isn't noticeable to most people but it bugs the hell out of me.
 
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Huntsman Knife Co. LLC. said:
I can't wait to see how these look after flat grinding and stonewashing. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas 😄

The Z Tuff is awesome. The only real problem is that its highly prone to warpage and the warpage can be hard to correct. Its alot like 3V in that regard. I'll have to work on the HT process and see what we can do to get these things to lay flat. I know a small amount of warpage doesn't affect performance and isn't noticeable to most people but it bugs the hell out of me.
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A stress releaving step before ht makes a world of difference for warp. I have had zero issue with warp with Ztuff and CD#1 when using a stress releaving step.
 
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