Hi all, am I the only one that only sees knives as tools?

[singularity35]

After spending the time reading 8 pages of this, I feel like I have enough time invested I have to comment, if not contribute.
To figure out if an unused knife is a knife or something else we need to define what a knife is first. A tool used to cut seems to be the basic definition, but scissors and axes cut, and they arent knives ( though would half a scisssor be a knife?) nor are saws, shovels or jackhammers, and they all cut too.
So do we go with the supreme court porn v art definition of knives, in that I know one when I see it? Not a great definition, as trainers sure look like knives (porn, in this example) but surely arent.
Speaking of trainers, Im pretty sure you wouldnt be able to carry those onto an airplane or into a courtroom either. Same with rubber training guns, but no one would call those a firearm either.
To me, a knife is a knife when it gets used as a knife, not unlike leghog. If it hangs on a wall or in a safe, it might as well not have an edge and be an art piece trainer, because its proved its worth even less than a rubber trainer thats been used. It might be rusted to hell somewhere you cant see, or have a bad heat treat, or whatever, and as soon as you would count on it to save your bacon the rubber trainer would have been more useful.
Its kinda schoedingers cat of sharp things.

So you two are basically making up your own definitions as you go along...

What if it hangs on the wall and does have an edge is it still not a knife?

Talking about an object designed to be a wall hanger, if it has all the attributes of a knife and among all the objects in the world, it has features similar to a knife then it is a knifelike object. It is called a knifelike object because it recognizably has the features of a knife. I'm sure any 6 year old can identify what a knife is. Unless of course, it is something else disguised as a knife.

While Schrodinger's cat may not be easily identified as alive or dead, he is still obviously a cat.

If I have a knife I used for a year or two, does it stop being a knife if I stop using it? Or does using a knife once make that object a knife forever?

 

[WuGod]

If it has no edge is it a knife? What about just a reallly dull one? If its an axe is it a knife? If all it is is a trainer with no edge is it a knife? If its a knife like object is it a knife with no edge or a sharpened spoon?
Its still a cat? Is a dead cat a cat or just a wad of protien.Schoedingers cat is neither alive or dead. Alive or dead or haunting your grandma. Maybe a cat you still dream about sometimes- still real to you sometimes.

 

[singularity35]

If it has no edge is it a knife? What about just a reallly dull one? If its an axe is it a knife? If all it is is a trainer with no edge is it a knife? If its a knife like object is it a knife with no edge or a sharpened spoon?
Its still a cat? Alive or dead or haunting your grandma. Maybe a cat you still dream about sometimes- still real to you sometimes

knife
nīf/Submit
noun
1.
an instrument composed of a blade fixed into a handle, used for cutting or as a weapon.
synonyms: cutting tool, blade, cutter
"a sharp knife"

A shank might have no edge but can be used as a weapon. Does it having no edge not qualify it as a knife in your perception? I had this throwing knife before, it never had an edge.

 

[WuGod]

knife
nīf/Submit
noun
1.
an instrument composed of a blade fixed into a handle, used for cutting or as a weapon.
synonyms: cutting tool, blade, cutter
"a sharp knife"

A shank might have no edge but can be used as a weapon. Does it having no edge not qualify it as a knife in your perception? I had this throwing knife before, it never had an edge.

So that definition excludes scissors axes and tomahawks, jackhammers, hammers and any other tool how?

 

[Stelth]

This thread:

 

[leghog]

knife
nīf/Submit
noun
1.
an instrument composed of a blade fixed into a handle, used for cutting or as a weapon.

There it is.

 

[leghog]

No horse is too dead to beat.

 

[singularity35]

There it is.

So a tin can lid that's used for cutting is a knife while a knife that isn't used isn't a knife?

You really are grasping at straws.

 

[Sikael]

I'm not sure how one goes about 'winning' this argument/game/exercise-in-futility, but I'm just going to say I'm victorious anyway... and then never. play. again.

 

[WuGod]

So a tin can lid that's used for cutting is a knife while a knife that isn't used isn't a knife?

You really are grasping at straws.

Per your definition from earlier, if it had a handle the soup can lid would be, so would it be a knife? Knife like object? Would a 6 year old identify it as a knife?

 

[singularity35]

So that definition excludes scissors axes and tomahawks, jackhammers, hammers and any other tool how?

Of course because I posted a definition of a knife. An axe is not a knife, nor is a pair of scissors a knife. You can probably find the definition of what an axe is.

Per your definition from earlier, if it had a handle the soup can lid would be, so would it be a knife? Knife like object? Would a 6 year old identify it as a knife?

A soup can lid is a soup can lid. No matter what it's used for or whether it's used or not.

Does any object in our universe just suddenly stop being what it is if there's no fundamental change?

I'm not sure how one goes about 'winning' this argument/game/exercise-in-futility, but I'm just going to say I'm victorious anyway... and then never. play. again.

I'm sure this is not about winning the argument now. This is now merely a game of Sophistry.

 

[craytab]

There it is.

And so, with your logic it isn't a knife until it has cut something. So the thousands of knives produced every day by multiple companies are not knives until they are taken out of their box and cut something?

 

[snippy]

When a knife has a greater meaning thrust upon it; Love, Lust, Worship: then the Greater meaning takes hold (for the lover, worshipper...)

This is when a knife is no longer a knife. To the afflicted.

To the rest of the world, it is still a knife.

Eric

 

[leghog]

When a knife has a greater meaning thrust upon it; Love, Lust, Worship: then the Greater meaning takes hold (for the lover, worshipper...)

This is when a knife is no longer a knife. To the afflicted.

To the rest of the world, it is still a knife.

Eric

Very well put.

 

[bld522]

From another thread:

Suggesting that a knife isn't a knife if it's not being used is just as ridiculous as suggesting that a car isn't a car if it's not being driven. Knives and cars are objects, not actions. Using them has nothing to do with their physical characteristics. If a knife is designed to be a cutting instrument, it's a knife whether it cuts anything or not. If a car is designed to provide transportation, it's a car whether it's transporting anything or not.

Carry on.

 

[leghog]

From another thread:

Suggesting that a knife isn't a knife if it's not being used is just as ridiculous as suggesting that a car isn't a car if it's not being driven. Knives and cars are objects, not actions. Using them has nothing to do with their physical characteristics. If a knife is designed to be a cutting instrument, it's a knife whether it cuts anything or not. If a car is designed to provide transportation, it's a car whether it's transporting anything or not.

Carry on.

Any tool you refuse to use for the purposes it was designed and made is pretty much useless. Whether it be a knife, a car, or a library card.

 

[bld522]

Any tool you refuse to use for the purposes it was designed and made is pretty much useless. Whether it be a knife, a car, or a library card.

So you're suggesting that whether or not a knife, a car or a library are useful impacts on what they are? How about if you lose your job and you're no longer useful. Does that mean you're not a human being anymore? Where did you study English?

 

[singularity35]

Any tool you refuse to use for the purposes it was designed and made is pretty much useless. Whether it be a knife, a car, or a library card.

Even if a knife is useless, it doesn't diminish the fact that it's a "useless knife"

It's only you(and that other guy ) that I have heard say that use or non use alters the fundamental nature of an object.

How would you describe a diamond that's deep in the Earth? Does it stop being composed of carbon atoms in a crystal lattice because nobody is wearing it or using for cutting?

 

[bld522]

Precisely. Some people around here need a refresher in the difference between a noun and a verb. Those who don't know the difference are functional illiterates and, well, not useful to this conversation. Pay attention to them at your own peril.

 

[singularity35]

More sophistry:

What about a knife being carried in Schrodinger's BOB? It's not being used to cut but is being useful by being available just in case. Does it hover between existence and non-existence? Or does it become like Shrodinger's having a dual nature?

If a knife stops being a knife by not being used, what then does it become? What about a knife dedicated for SD? "Officer, leghog says that I'm not carrying a knife because I am not currently stabbing or cutting anybody". Would that be sufficient defense?

How many times must a knife be used to be considered a knife? If a knife is used once and never used again, what is it? "Prosecutor: accused stabbed victim with this knife(shows a knife as evidence)". "Defense: Objection your honor, that thing is no longer a knife according to leghog because it is being held in evidence and is useless as a cutting implement"