'High end' fakes

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basmca said:
so if it's different in every dimension, made with different materials, a different lock and has a different brand, it's a clone?
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"Clone"

I don't think that word means what you think it means. (said with a heavy Spanish accent)

We need to realize that whether counterfeit, clone, knock-off, homage or any other more euphemistic terms we may seek to use, knives that steal the designs of others are wrong and bad for the industry. It's what Ganzo has done since day one and they're showing me no indication that the intend to change the business plan.
 
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Hackenslash said:
Absolutely correct. I think that one might be able to argue (for the sake of argument) that Ganzo doesn't make counterfeits but they do make clones. There's a little difference between the two but I think we can all agree that they're all wrong for the same reasons.

The old argument that knives with clip blades or pinned construction or back locks are "clones" of earlier knives is stupid. You may as well run through the thread screaming that some modern bone handled knife is a clone of an early Neanderthal tool. C'mon people, we can, and should, do better than this.

Clones/Counterfeits at any price point are wrong. It doesn't matter how nicely they may be done. Do you likewise condone a "nice, clean murder"?
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Hackenslash said:
Absolutely correct. I think that one might be able to argue (for the sake of argument) that Ganzo doesn't make counterfeits but they do make clones. There's a little difference between the two but I think we can all agree that they're all wrong for the same reasons.

The old argument that knives with clip blades or pinned construction or back locks are "clones" of earlier knives is stupid. You may as well run through the thread screaming that some modern bone handled knife is a clone of an early Neanderthal tool. C'mon people, we can, and should, do better than this.

Clones/Counterfeits at any price point are wrong. It doesn't matter how nicely they may be done. Do you likewise condone a "nice, clean murder"?
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Nothing stupid at all speaking truth. All knives at one point have been cloned or modified from past knives. That is not an old argument. Just plain truth
 
Keep telling yourself this garbage. Sooner or later, you’ll truly believe it.........most here will not. Rightly so.

Cold Steel/Ontario fanboy said:
Nothing stupid at all speaking truth. All knives at one point have been cloned or modified from past knives. That is not an old argument. Just plain truth
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dead-horse.jpg

Flogging a dead horse (alternatively beating a dead horse, or beating a dead dog in some parts of the Anglophone world) is an idiom that means to continue a particular endeavour is a waste of time as the outcome is already decided.
 
Hackenslash said:
"Clone"

I don't think that word means what you think it means. (said with a heavy Spanish accent)

We need to realize that whether counterfeit, clone, knock-off, homage or any other more euphemistic terms we may seek to use, knives that steal the designs of others are wrong and bad for the industry. It's what Ganzo has done since day one and they're showing me no indication that the intend to change the business plan.
Click to expand...

sure if you stretch the definition you could call all thier knives a clone.

but then these are also clones
and ofcourse you get the question, when is it a clone and when isn't it.

hqdefault.jpg

WaVoS-600x300.png
 
basmca said:
sure if you stretch the definition you could call all thier knives a clone.

but then these are also clones
and ofcourse you get the question, when is it a clone and when isn't it.


WaVoS-600x300.png
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Pretty clear in the case of these two who ripped who off.
Dont know why you include them.
 
marcinek said:
So saving money makes theft ok for you? What is the cutoff point in the price gap for you where the counterfeits become less appealing? Like "Well if I only save $20 they are a bad thing, but if I save $200, well, now it's not so bad!"
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Ethical standards, right and wrong, and honor is a hard concept to explain to those that have little to none. Theft is theft regardless, period.
Some people buy costume glass
jewelry, some cubic zarconia, others diamonds.
Whatever your tastes fine, just don't call a fake copy anything but theft.
 
Theft is theft.

Non-genuine knives hurt the knife companies and in extension our hobby.

Lapedog said:
I have heard of people buying the fake because they don’t want to spend 400$ to try a knife. They try the clone and like it so much they decide to buy the real thing. So in a weird roundabout way the clone facilitated a sale of the real knife.
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So ripped off knives are a gateway drug to the real thing hence justifiable?

Nope, I dont adhere to that POV.
 
Cold Steel/Ontario fanboy said:
Fuck off idiot.
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Wow, calm down there.

No need for that in GeeDee.

His post hardly deserved that response.

Further more, pls understand that your POV dont sit real well with those of us - myself included - who believes the knives in question (fakes - no such thing as 'high end' fakes BTW) hurt the knife industry and our hobby.
 
Do you react this way every time someone disagrees with you?? If so, you are definitely in the wrong place.
 
BladeScout said:
Theft is theft.

Non-genuine knives hurt the knife companies and in extension our hobby.


So ripped off knives are a gateway drug to the real thing hence justifiable?

Nope, I dont adhere to that POV.
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I’m not saying I believe that it is justified. I have never bought a knockoff knife. I am just saying it is interesting consider.

Also I gotta ask, why does the no clone rule seem to never apply to Buck 110 clones.
 
For me clone is a knife hard/almost impossible to recognize if it's clone or original especially for someone who isn't knife expert. Example - clone of BM 940 with BM logo, or Microtechs with MT logo and serial numbers, or Chinese PM2 with spider on the blade. They're the worse for me. If I'd like to buy PM2 I can buy clone without knowing it for the price of original.

Fake IMHO is almost clone, but easy to recognize that's a not a real one, because lack of logo or different logo. Example - Kevin John Sebenza or just Chinese Sebenza without any logo or "Idaho made" on it. Stolen design in 100% without original markings.

Ganzo is more about stealing patents, whole designs but with different proportions, parts of designs, modifing not their designs [PM2 with axis] etc. under their own logo, so they're easy to identify. Of course they're still stealing intelectual property but you can't sell someone for example Ganzo 710 as a Benchmade 950.

So where here is Microtech with their automatic knife stolen from Mikov or Matrix which is KAI design. Why Microtech is tolerated to be at Shot/Blade Show if they're no better than Ganzo? When MT will be banned at Blade Show? Probably never.
 
Lapedog said:
I’m not saying I believe that it is justified. I have never bought a knockoff knife. I am just saying it is interesting consider.

Also I gotta ask, why does the no clone rule seem to never apply to Buck 110 clones.
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In rgds to the highlighted part, I refer you to the previous post quoted below:


Hackenslash said:
Absolutely correct. I think that one might be able to argue (for the sake of argument) that Ganzo doesn't make counterfeits but they do make clones. There's a little difference between the two but I think we can all agree that they're all wrong for the same reasons.

The old argument that knives with clip blades or pinned construction or back locks are "clones" of earlier knives is stupid. You may as well run through the thread screaming that some modern bone handled knife is a clone of an early Neanderthal tool. C'mon people, we can, and should, do better than this.

Clones/Counterfeits at any price point are wrong. It doesn't matter how nicely they may be done. Do you likewise condone a "nice, clean murder"?
Click to expand...
 
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