'High end' fakes

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No, because I prefer original designs with customer service made by company standing behind their product - that's why Benchmade now is my favourite company. I had plenty occasions to buy those high end clones for small money and never took the opportunity. I don't buy clones of expensive watches either.
 
ourgon said:
No, because I prefer original designs with customer service made by company standing behind their product - that's why Benchmade now is my favourite company. I had plenty occasions to buy those high end clones for small money and never took the opportunity. I don't buy clones of expensive watches either.
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Here's your post...what you said.

ourgon said:
I never bought chinese clone. I think it's waste of money. You get something which looks like original but probably with worse steel and worse hardware without any customer service. After short time it's a junk you can't even easily resell without huge loss. And real knife enthusiast will spot that you carry a fake - don't expect handshakes and congratulations that you outsmarted producers of original.
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They have bad steel, hardware, CS, and resale value. That's why you said you don't buy clones.

I mean, that's fine if you feel that...to each his own.

I don't buy clones because they are clones. If they had phenomenal steel, hardware, CS, and resale value, I wouldn't buy one.

It's not an issue of practicality for me, it's an issue of right and wrong and ripping off one of our fellow members' hard work.
 
ourgon said:
No, because I prefer original designs with customer service made by company standing behind their product - that's why Benchmade now is my favourite company. I had plenty occasions to buy those high end clones for small money and never took the opportunity. I don't buy clones of expensive watches either.
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that's the thing though, i live in the EU, so CS doesn't apply.
knives sold through ''legit'' retailers also have a very high tax on them that knives sold trough websites that sell clones don't.
a 940-1 clone costs 65$ a real 940-1 costs 443$( on sale from 497$.)
personally i don't buy clones, i think making a direct copy of something and selling it as the real deal is a very bad thing. (although i do own a couple ganzo knives, i wish they made knives from thier own designs.), but they do become appealing because of the massive price gap.
 
$497? What country you live in? Benchmade has great CS even for Europeans.

I don't buy clones, don't advertise them, if someone else is doing that - it's his money and consience.
 
ourgon said:
$497? What country you live in? Benchmade has great CS even for Europeans.

I don't buy clones, don't advertise them, if someone else is doing that - it's his money and consience.
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Holland.

Benchmade doesn't have a factory in europe as far as i'm aware of?
 
basmca said:
that's the thing though, i live in the EU, so CS doesn't apply.
knives sold through ''legit'' retailers also have a very high tax on them that knives sold trough websites that sell clones don't.
a 940-1 clone costs 65$ a real 940-1 costs 443$( on sale from 497$.)
personally i don't buy clones, i think making a direct copy of something and selling it as the real deal is a very bad thing. (although i do own a couple ganzo knives, i wish they made knives from thier own designs.), but they do become appealing because of the massive price gap.
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So saving money makes theft ok for you? What is the cutoff point in the price gap for you where the counterfeits become less appealing? Like "Well if I only save $20 they are a bad thing, but if I save $200, well, now it's not so bad!"
 
marcinek said:
So saving money makes theft ok for you? What is the cutoff point in the price gap for you where the counterfeits become less appealing? Like "Well if I only save $20 they are a bad thing, but if I save $200, well, now it's not so bad!"
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i'm not saying it's ok! look at my post,i said explicitly i think it's bad.

it doesn't make sense to you that the bigger the gap the more appealing a clone would be?
if there was no gap between organic food an inorganic food, wouln't you go for organic?

i'm not saying there's ever a point that i would buy direct clones, but you get the point.
 
basmca said:
i'm not saying it's ok! look at my post,i said explicitly i think it's bad.

it doesn't make sense to you that the bigger the gap the more appealing a clone would be?
if there was no gap between organic food an inorganic food, wouln't you go for organic?
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You said they become appealing if the price is right and you own Ganzos despite them not using their own designs.

Both claims are your right, of course.
 
Mo2 said:
Don't support fakes. They are bad knives for the most part anyways. Don't let prices temp you.

The more people that publicly share and talk about fakes the more people end up getting screwed from a sale of a fake as the real thing when it's nothing close.

Don't be that guy.

If you want to be that guy, don't share that you bought a fake and don't try and sell it.
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I bought a fake. Was not intentional. I bought a Spyderco C07 with 9cr18 steel for $30 bucks on auction. I knew the steel was chinese. Thing is Spyderco does make some of their knives in China which does not help the average consumer like myself differentiate differentiate between a fake Chinese clone and a budget Chinese legit Spyderco.
 
marcinek said:
You said they become appealing if the price is right and you own Ganzos despite them not using their own designs.

Both claims are your right, of course.
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yea i wish they made knives 100% of their own design.
even if that would double the price they still cost less than half of what a similar quality knife would cost.

But Ganzo knives aren't clones. the're made similar to other knives. which isn't a good thing, but isn't the criminal shit clone makers do.
there's knives like that made by common manufactures too.
at blade show there was a knife that looked more like a ZT 0450 than any ganzo has ever looked like what they were made after.

more appealing yes, but i'm still of the opinion that making a direct copy of something and selling it as if real is awefull.
 
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Now that I think about it major manufacturers are guilty of this also. Cold Steel GI Tanto was copied Idea from Strider. The Buck 110 was copied by Uncle Henry, Scharade, and many other companies. Many knives have been copied or ripped off. But to place blame solely on China while excusing manufacturers from other countries or well liked popular businesses is kind of counterproductive. I can name 10 different Ideas and patents that were taken from Spyderco and almost every American knife company from other past and present American or foreign knife company. Kraton handles were a Cold Steel Innovation that Ontario took to use for their SP series.
 
First let me say that I am in no way condoning fakes. I hope if anything more fake makers follow in Kevin John’s footsteps and start making their own lines or doing work for other companies.

I have heard of people buying the fake because they don’t want to spend 400$ to try a knife. They try the clone and like it so much they decide to buy the real thing. So in a weird roundabout way the clone facilitated a sale of the real knife.
 
Lapedog said:
First let me say that I am in no way condoning fakes. I hope if anything more fake makers follow in Kevin John’s footsteps and start making their own lines or doing work for other companies.

I have heard of people buying the fake because they don’t want to spend 400$ to try a knife. They try the clone and like it so much they decide to buy the real thing. So in a weird roundabout way the clone facilitated a sale of the real knife.
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You are absolutely correct. I just bought a $30 Spyderco C07 that is 9cr18 steel on ebay that I suspect when I get it will be fake. But I will also get to see if I like the knife and if I do I will buy a more expensive Spyderco when I get $200 bucks. If I do not like it I can gift it to a homeless guy or a kid and can justify losing $30 bucks as opposed to $200.
 
marcinek said:
As I said, everyone has every right to make their own stand on clones and the clone industry.

Mine is all the way on one side ... the "they are morally wrong and destructive to the knife industry, end of discussion" side.
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I do agree with your sentiment and cannot find fault with your logic. With that said American knife companies and others overseas have copied, stolen, or modified original designs back to the stone ages.
 
craytab said:
There is a lot of flawed logic on display here. Ganzo does make clones. Being under their own brand matters not.
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so if it's different in every dimension, made with different materials, a different lock and has a different brand, it's a clone?
 
craytab said:
There is a lot of flawed logic on display here. Ganzo does make clones. Being under their own brand matters not.
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Absolutely correct. I think that one might be able to argue (for the sake of argument) that Ganzo doesn't make counterfeits but they do make clones. There's a little difference between the two but I think we can all agree that they're all wrong for the same reasons.

The old argument that knives with clip blades or pinned construction or back locks are "clones" of earlier knives is stupid. You may as well run through the thread screaming that some modern bone handled knife is a clone of an early Neanderthal tool. C'mon people, we can, and should, do better than this.

Clones/Counterfeits at any price point are wrong. It doesn't matter how nicely they may be done. Do you likewise condone a "nice, clean murder"?
 
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