Higher standards for hard use folders today?

[John Smith V]

I think CS had a lot to do with it, raising the bar even more as each new product line came came out. Adding in Companies like Strider and Emerson in the hard use folder market. Lately in the past years we are seeing more true hard use knives enter the market while the standard keeps going up each year.

It's good for us as in we are seeing some of the strongest hard use folders ever made that can really be classified as hard use and approaching fixed blade strength. :thumbup:

I think you pretty much nailed it right there.

I think if you judge a knife on its own merit, a CS is gonna beat a lot of competition.

Too many of us have become way too educated about the background info in the knife industry to choose the obviously superior knife over the one that appeal to our consumer's taste or sense of aethetics.

Nothing wrong with choosing a knife because it's purdy, though. Or because you think the owner of the company is a swell guy.

 

[Ankerson]

I think you pretty much nailed it right there.

I think if you judge a knife on its own merit, a CS is gonna beat a lot of competition.

Too many of us have become way too educated about the background info in the knife industry to choose the obviously superior knife over the one that appeal to our consumer's taste or sense of aethetics.

Nothing wrong with choosing a knife because it's purdy, though. Or because you think the owner of the company is a swell guy.

If knives were generic and we based them on what they are and pure performance and quality like we really should be if we were really smart consumers then yes.

There is a lot of politics and built up hype and hate etc in the knife industry and on the forums IMO all that does is cloud what the truth really is and it doesn't do any of us any good in the end.

I believe we as consumers should be pushing the companies to put out even better, stronger and higher quality knives instead of attacking each other.

Now that if it happened would benefit us as consumers more than anything else.

 

[singularity35]

I would guess that attacks on any poster of negative comments about a beloved product or company happens because of the desire for validation of the faith or on the emotional investment that we have lavished on the object of our idolatry.

 

[Bierkameel]

I owned the Buck 110 titanium for more then 10 years and it is very hard use, it was just not promoted as hard use.
But now a days everything has to be tactical like tactical spoons, tactical socks, tactical coffee mugs and tactical flashlights.

I blame the mall ninja's.

 

[Ankerson]

I would guess that attacks on any poster of negative comments about a beloved product or company happens because of the desire for validation of the faith or on the emotional investment that we have lavished on the object of our idolatry.

Yes, all that really does in the end is help buy some CEO another Limo or Beach front condo while the knives stay the same so it really doesn't benefit the consumers at all.

We need to push them to do more R&D and put out better knives, let them know that it's never good enough and there is always room for improvement. :thumbup:

Blind fanboyism and attacking others or a company doesn't do us as consumers any good. Neither does smear campaigns that companies start against each other with people that fall into that frame of mind.

The only thing that really works if we want better knives is to push the companies as consumers letting them know to raise the bar even higher. :thumbup:

In the end they work for us because they want us to buy their products, it's not the other way around like some think it is.

Unless they are paying us to use their products..... ROFL

 

[Noumenon]

If knives were generic and we based them on what they are and pure performance and quality like we really should be if we were really smart consumers then yes.

There is a lot of politics and built up hype and hate etc in the knife industry and on the forums IMO all that does is cloud what the truth really is and it doesn't do any of us any good in the end.

I believe we as consumers should be pushing the companies to put out even better, stronger and higher quality knives instead of attacking each other.

Now that if it happened would benefit us as consumers more than anything else.

I think people like you and others who make videos showing the limits of products helps push the quality of products upward. Unfortunately there is that weird brand loyalty or "fanboy" mentality some people have who feel like they should stick up for their company and attack you for examining the shortcomings of a product from their favorite brand. For instance, I really cringed seeing you getting attacked for your Manix 2 videos. I love Spyderco knives and I don't have a Manix but I know I will eventually own one and your video raised some good points. I'm also a huge fan of Kershaw knives and I respect the quality of Benchmade but I will probably not own a Benchmade because I simply don't enjoy the look of their knives. Anyway, what you do is very similar to crash testing, imo. The fanatics here are similar to the Ford vs Chevy and AMD vs Intel fights because people are passionate about what they spend money on. Ultimately if you are logical you will thank the people who test things past their limits and post results with fair testing.

Myself, I like to test things and while I do have some favorite companies its because they consistently put out products I enjoy and I don't feel like I owe any more than repeat business and honest views. I guess its easy to lose your objectivity if you love your stuff so much and don't want to believe what you're seeing.

 

[Ankerson]

I think people like you and others who make videos showing the limits of products helps push the quality of products upward. Unfortunately there is that weird brand loyalty or "fanboy" mentality some people have who feel like they should stick up for their company and attack you for examining the shortcomings of a product from their favorite brand. For instance, I really cringed seeing you getting attacked for your Manix 2 videos. I love Spyderco knives and I don't have a Manix but I know I will eventually own one and your video raised some good points. I'm also a huge fan of Kershaw knives and I respect the quality of Benchmade but I will probably not own a Benchmade because I simply don't enjoy the look of their knives. Anyway, what you do is very similar to crash testing, imo. The fanatics here are similar to the Ford vs Chevy and AMD vs Intel fights because people are passionate about what they spend money on. Ultimately if you are logical you will thank the people who test things past their limits and post results with fair testing.

Myself, I like to test things and while I do have some favorite companies its because they consistently put out products I enjoy and I don't feel like I owe any more than repeat business and honest views. I guess its easy to lose your objectivity if you love your stuff so much and don't want to believe what you're seeing.

You are correct. :thumbup:

I am not nor have even been a blind fanboy of any product or company.

They are all equal in my eyes and when I am shooting my videos all the knives are generic and I test them as so.

What I do like is tough high quality knives that can take the beating that I give them on video and in how I use them.

That is why I like Strider and CS, but I am not a fanboy of either, but they do make some very tough hard use knives and I will tell it like it is, it's the same for Busse.

The Ford vs Chevy and the AMD vs Intel are spot on IMO.

You will never see me post that any company sucks or a knife model sucks because none of them do, they are just different.

 

[LorenzoL]

I think the only contribution to the knife industry by CS are hilarious videos of a fat guy in a spandex suit two sizes too small. No hype surrounding any other knife company can come close to that.
I stand by my earlier statement, CS knives are at the bottom of the heap in terms of design or quality. To say that the improvement in overall folder design was promoted by CS is an insult to guys like Kit Carson, Pat Crawford, Allen Elishewitz and many more who kept pushing the envelope.

 

[Noumenon]

I should have put Xbox vs Playstation too but I hope people get the idea that different isn't necessarily better or worse.

 

[Ankerson]

I think the only contribution to the knife industry by CS are hilarious videos of a fat guy in a spandex suit two sizes too small. No hype surrounding any other knife company can come close to that.
I stand by my earlier statement, CS knives are at the bottom of the heap in terms of design or quality. To say that the improvement in overall folder design was promoted by CS is an insult to guys like Kit Carson, Pat Crawford, Allen Elishewitz and many more who kept pushing the envelope.

Everyone has an opinion....

Would they have kept pushing the bar higher if it wasn't for CS?

Likely not, or not as fast.

If it wasn't for CS we would still be using the weak knives that we used back in the 70's and early to mid 80's.

The hardest use folder we had was the Buck 110, it's good, but nothing like we have today.

It was CS with their aggressive marketing style that caused the other companies to raise the bar and get into the game.

 

[trix2004]

manix 2 was disappointment , its marketed as hard use knife , and has " hard use rated lock " , and it failed miserably simple test .
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=418

 

[philwar]

I think it's analogous to the situation with muscle cars today--everything has more ponies, but we don't necessarily need them.

Yes we do. At least in cars! Who would have believed a VW Golf with 270HP from the factory, 0-62 mph in 5.5 sec? But it's the best golf yet.
And I'll buy the equivalent folder too.

 

[misterjuiceman]

I think the only contribution to the knife industry by CS are hilarious videos of a fat guy in a spandex suit two sizes too small. No hype surrounding any other knife company can come close to that.
I stand by my earlier statement, CS knives are at the bottom of the heap in terms of design or quality. To say that the improvement in overall folder design was promoted by CS is an insult to guys like Kit Carson, Pat Crawford, Allen Elishewitz and many more who kept pushing the envelope.

I agree with this. I'm not a fan of the designs or the quality. I know the tri-ad lock is great and is probably the hardest use lock around, but it's all too over-the-top for me. Knives like Rick Hinderer's XM-18 and the Chris Reeve Sebenza are absolutely hard use, but without sacrificing elegance and fit and finish. I think the real trick is making a hard use knife that doesn't appear to be hard use. Rick Hinderer, Tom Mayo, Chris Reeve, etc... have done this, and to me, that's more impressive than making a huge ridiculous folder that's also hard use. Compared to some CS folders, even Strider seems dainty.

 

[misterjuiceman]

Yes we do. At least in cars! Who would have believed a VW Golf with 270HP from the factory, 0-62 mph in 5.5 sec? But it's the best golf yet.
And I'll buy the equivalent folder too.

Don't get me wrong, I love hard use folders, and I love high horsepower cars. Folders probably shouldn't be used for too hard of a use, but I think the great thing is knowing that it can hold up to it, even if you never intend to use it that hard.

 

[singularity35]

I agree with this. I'm not a fan of the designs or the quality. I know the tri-ad lock is great and is probably the hardest use lock around, but it's all too over-the-top for me. Knives like Rick Hinderer's XM-18 and the Chris Reeve Sebenza are absolutely hard use, but without sacrificing elegance and fit and finish. I think the real trick is making a hard use knife that doesn't appear to be hard use. Rick Hinderer, Tom Mayo, Chris Reeve, etc... have done this, and to me, that's more impressive than making a huge ridiculous folder that's also hard use. Compared to some CS folders, even Strider seems dainty.

I'm sure I would be fine with an XM-18 if I had the $$$ to buy one. The fact that I have the choice of buying a folder that may be 80 percent of the XM-18's robustness at 1/5 of the price means that ELU's are the ones benefitted.

 

[philwar]

I think the only contribution to the knife industry by CS are hilarious videos of a fat guy in a spandex suit two sizes too small. No hype surrounding any other knife company can come close to that.

Like many people here you have trouble separating the marketing and the hype from the knives themselves.
That is your loss, even if you don't realize it.

I stand by my earlier statement, CS knives are at the bottom of the heap in terms of design or quality. To say that the improvement in overall folder design was promoted by CS is an insult to guys like Kit Carson, Pat Crawford, Allen Elishewitz and many more who kept pushing the envelope.

Different worlds. CS makes very affordable mass-produced knives that are unbeaten in terms of reliability and ruggedness. The people you mention make customs or semi-customs.
But a Kit Carson design from CRKT is crap compared to any knife CS ever made. That's not Carson's fault (or of the others when they design for BM and the rest), it just shows that when you start mass-producing, you are subject to all the demands of price cutting.

If you wanna hate on CS, go right ahead, and you need no reason to do so. But don't try and rationalize your distaste for Lynn Thompson. It makes your arguments ring false.

 

[trix2004]

. Cs makes very affordable mass-produced knives that are unbeaten in terms of reliability and ruggedness. The people you mention make customs or semi-customs.
But a kit carson design from crkt is crap compared to any knife cs ever made. That's not carson's fault (or of the others when they design for bm and the rest), it just shows that when you start mass-producing, you are subject to all the demands of price cutting.

.

. +1 .

 

[Ankerson]

I agree with this. I'm not a fan of the designs or the quality. I know the tri-ad lock is great and is probably the hardest use lock around, but it's all too over-the-top for me. Knives like Rick Hinderer's XM-18 and the Chris Reeve Sebenza are absolutely hard use, but without sacrificing elegance and fit and finish. I think the real trick is making a hard use knife that doesn't appear to be hard use. Rick Hinderer, Tom Mayo, Chris Reeve, etc... have done this, and to me, that's more impressive than making a huge ridiculous folder that's also hard use. Compared to some CS folders, even Strider seems dainty.

Not sure what you mean here, but in this photo the Strider SmF RW-1 is the heaviest knife by far.

Top to bottom, CS Recon 1, Spyderco Endura 4, CS AL, and Strider SmF RW-1.

 

[trix2004]

I wouldn't call Sebenza "hard use folder " .

 

[Noumenon]

I wouldn't call Sebenza "hard use folder " .

It isn't exactly delicate and you'd have to beat it hard to break it.