Higher standards for hard use folders today?

mjolnir74 said:
I never realized there was so much hate for these folders. Since you guys are happy with the other than hard use folders that's what you should stick with. I don't need someone else's uninformed opinion on what I should be carrying. Yes, I drive a 4 wheel drive and rarely use it. Get stuck one time and sit on your a$@ on the side of the road for hours and you rethink things. Like I've said before, my SMF is a lot of knife in a thin, light weight, easy to carry package. I don't pry with it but I may need to one day for some unknown reason. I'd rather have it and not need it than be sol. Carry your prybar and knife if you want to, but don't act like someone rides the short bus cause they like hard use folders.
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An honest answer and good enough for me!! I'm not sure anybody has gone so far as the short bus analogy in this thread though.

Edit - then again I guess I was wrong on bringing up the short bus thing too :D
 
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Boats said:
Nah, just a freewheeling debate between two schools of thought:

1) "Let's select, or even improvise, the correct tool for the job."

versus. . .

2) "Hulk Smash!"
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Although I own and often carry "hard use" folders, I LIKE this response.:thumbup:
And lets' face it, for "Hulk smash!" time, a hammer is better than any knife. I still remember the one guy who was talking about using the spine of a knife as a hammer in the spine-whack thread.:rolleyes:
Ridiculous.
Oh, but not all fixed blades are stronger than folders, as I was reminded of yesterday. I saw my brother's old $10 "Genuine Bowie Knife" again from when he was a kid; Chinese made "quality" from back when there was none, and more lateral AND vertical blade-play than in ANY of my folders. You could baton with a Spyderco Military more safefy, no word of a lie; this fixed blade would put your eye out. Heck, it might break cutting stiff cardboard!:D
 
I rotate my EDC between an XM-18 and a DDC SnG and I have to say, my real "hard use knife" is my Leatherman Wave. I'd much rather pry with that than either of my main EDCs. I enjoy the more stout folders out there as well as the not-so-hard-use folders. Let's remember: most of us could easily get by with an Opinel coupled with a $20 SAK. Everything, from the more elegant to the rougher-imaged knives out there are a matter of personal preferences. It's those preferences that we're paying our premiums for and judging one person for paying a premium on his preference rather than yours is hypocritical. As far as I'm concerned, it's not so much about "hard use folders" vs, I don't know what the hell to call them, "regular use folders" (I guess), but more so about necessity and practicality vs luxury and some sort of emotional fulfillment. I'm not fooling myself. I carry my relatively expensive folders because I enjoy them, not because I need them. It's no one's place to tell me how to enjoy my money. If you've spent over $30 on your EDC knife, you're in no position to tell others that they're buying into something that's "excessive" or unnecessary.
 
No one is trying to send a message to the buyers of these so-called "hard use" folders other than this one:

"Be honest with yourself about why you buy them." To the credit of some in this thread, the truth about considerations other than dreamt of worst case scenarios have been brought out.

Most of the "hard use" folders pictured on this site are as unscratched as the typical $45k Toyota Land Cruiser.

Trying to convince the non-believers that the "hard use" folder is a godsend that fills a heretofore yawning chasm in folding knife market that was crying out to be filled with overly thick folders with bad ergonomics is rather amusing frankly. They're lifestyle knives for the vast majority of owners out there.

With a common rock, one could hammer into the open position a $20 Douk Douk with a springy blade made of 1084 and accomplish a hell of a lot of abuse with said piece.;)
 
Boats said:
No one is trying to send a message to the buyers of these so-called "hard use" folders other than this one:

"Be honest with yourself about why you buy them." To the credit of some in this thread, the truth about considerations other than dreamt of worst case scenarios have been brought out.

Most of the "hard use" folders pictured on this site are as unscratched as the typical $45k Toyota Land Cruiser.

Trying to convince the non-believers that the "hard use" folder is a godsend that fills a heretofore yawning chasm in folding knife market that was crying out to be filled with overly thick folders with bad ergonomics is rather amusing frankly. They're lifestyle knives for the vast majority of owners out there.

With a common rock, one could hammer into the open position a $20 Douk Douk with a springy blade made of 1084 and accomplish a hell of a lot of abuse with said piece.;)
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Are you on somebody's payroll? What if I don't use my "hard use" everyday? It's like my Glock or my Colt, it's there for when I'll need it. Maybe you are trying to convince yourself not to get one. I actually would also like a $45k land cruiser. So What is it to you? Again why the butthurt about our choices?

What I don't get is this "crusade" against "hard use" folders. Maybe you can take up the "green ideology" or "world peace".
 
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Boats said:
No one is trying to send a message to the buyers of these so-called "hard use" folders other than this one:

"Be honest with yourself about why you buy them." To the credit of some in this thread, the truth about considerations other than dreamt of worst case scenarios have been brought out.

Most of the "hard use" folders pictured on this site are as unscratched as the typical $45k Toyota Land Cruiser.

Trying to convince the non-believers that the "hard use" folder is a godsend that fills a heretofore yawning chasm in folding knife market that was crying out to be filled with overly thick folders with bad ergonomics is rather amusing frankly. They're lifestyle knives for the vast majority of owners out there.

With a common rock, one could hammer into the open position a $20 Douk Douk with a springy blade made of 1084 and accomplish a hell of a lot of abuse with said piece.;)
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Let's not avoid the fact that it's not simply the 'hard use knife' fans that can fall into this trap of convincing himself that the unnecessary is necessary. The guy with the $50-$100 not-marketed-as-hard-use-knife-user can quite easily be guilty of the same delusion. If one wants honesty, let's not exclude those that fall just as easily into the category. The guy that pays premiums for the latest super steel and nifty lock is fooling himself if he thinks he's only buying the bare bones while others are buying excess and into fads;).
 
Ah the superfluous! The absolutely indispensable superfluous!!

The superfluous knives that cost an arm and a leg, and enchant the soul, are like true pieces of art. To some, they are a waste of money; to others they bring joy, a light hearted step, and a moment of respite to the weary.

I post here my absolutely not-hard-use knife, a Benchmade 930 Kulgera, with handles I made over the weekend from tortoise shell celluloid.

BMCelluloid.jpg


What a waste of time making those handles! Don't you know that celluloid is out of style, and may be dangerous, flammable or worse? Don't you know that it will probably decompose over time, and rust the knife and inner working parts into oblivion? Just stick with the tried-and-true G-10 scales! They have no downsides...

Ah, but it's beautiful...

Will I ever recoup my "investment"? Who the heck cares? The knife's not for sale!!

Folderguy
 
Boats said:
No one is trying to send a message to the buyers of these so-called "hard use" folders other than this one:

"Be honest with yourself about why you buy them." To the credit of some in this thread, the truth about considerations other than dreamt of worst case scenarios have been brought out.

Most of the "hard use" folders pictured on this site are as unscratched as the typical $45k Toyota Land Cruiser.

Trying to convince the non-believers that the "hard use" folder is a godsend that fills a heretofore yawning chasm in folding knife market that was crying out to be filled with overly thick folders with bad ergonomics is rather amusing frankly. They're lifestyle knives for the vast majority of owners out there.

With a common rock, one could hammer into the open position a $20 Douk Douk with a springy blade made of 1084 and accomplish a hell of a lot of abuse with said piece.;)
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I wonder how much you paid for your most expensive folder.

Kaizen1 said:
Let's not avoid the fact that it's not simply the 'hard use knife' fans that can fall into this trap of convincing himself that the unnecessary is necessary. The guy with the $50-$100 not-marketed-as-hard-use-knife-user can quite easily be guilty of the same delusion. If one wants honesty, let's not exclude those that fall just as easily into the category. The guy that pays premiums for the latest super steel and nifty lock is fooling himself if he thinks he's only buying the bare bones while others are buying excess and into fads;).
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Absolutely!
 
I know price was brought up, but the relevance isn't yet determined in this thread.

Does a knife have to be expensive to be hard use? Is an expensive knife more capable? Why do people spend a lot of money on folders?

I don't think people pay $10K+ for something like a Lake folder because they think it's a better tool for batoning, and The Kabar mule probably isn't considered a letter opener because it's less than a tenth the price of an XM-18.

People spend a lot of money for a lot of reasons. I really don't see why hard use would be one of them. The tougher steels are cheaper, the expensive finishes are wasted on a user, and the engineering precision isn't needed to be all that high. Hell, this all started over video of a $60 knife.
 
hardheart said:
I know price was brought up, but the relevance isn't yet determined in this thread.

Does a knife have to be expensive to be hard use? Is an expensive knife more capable? Why do people spend a lot of money on folders?

I don't think people pay $10K+ for something like a Lake folder because they think it's a better tool for batoning, and The Kabar mule probably isn't considered a letter opener because it's less than a tenth the price of an XM-18.

People spend a lot of money for a lot of reasons. I really don't see why hard use would be one of them. The tougher steels are cheaper, the expensive finishes are wasted on a user, and the engineering precision isn't needed to be all that high. Hell, this all started over video of a $60 knife.
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I found it to be a fair comparison because the claim against hard use knives is that they possess unnecessary features. This implies (so it seems to me) that one ought to only buy knives with necessary features. Considering that necessary features of a fully usable knife can be easily found <$30, spending more than that is unnecessary and therefore if one takes that objection seriously, one is being hypocritical if he pays anything above $20-$30. In principle, it seems to me that the objector is guilty of the very issue that he supposedly has with others.
 
in our little world of knife nuts, i find it extremely odd that anyone should have to justify a knife they have purchased, why they like something, or whether or not its a "user".
 
Boats said:
Trying to convince the non-believers
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You've got that a$$ backwards: It's the users of delicate and/or traditional knives who are always ragging on the fans of tough folders. "What use are they?" and "They don't cut worth a damn."

I don't care about those comments. I have all types of folders, and like hard-use folders the most, but I also don't feel any need to convince anyone else of the use or need for such a knife. I haven't seen anyone else play advocate either.

It's the typical Endura user (great knife, no offense intended) who feels the need to convince me and people like me that our wants/needs/desires are useless/redundant/absent. Leave us alone to talk about the next indestructable folder, and you'll never even know we're here. :D
 
MORIMOTOM said:
in our little world of knife nuts, i find it extremely odd that anyone should have to justify a knife they have purchased, why they like something, or whether or not its a "user".
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philwar said:
You've got that a$$ backwards: It's the users of delicate and/or traditional knives who are always ragging on the fans of tough folders. "What use are they?" and "They don't cut worth a damn."

I don't care about those comments. I have all types of folders, and like hard-use folders the most, but I also don't feel any need to convince anyone else of the use or need for such a knife. I haven't seen anyone else play advocate either.

It's the typical Endura user (great knife, no offense intended) who feels the need to convince me and people like me that our wants/needs/desires are useless/redundant/absent. Leave us alone to talk about the next indestructable folder, and you'll never even know we're here. :D
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+ 1 :thumbup: I buy a folder because I dig it. Some have cost me over $500 and some $50. They have their own uses.
 
I was kinda baffled at why the cheese cutter's knife people were so vehement in trying to convince me that I had no use/need for some of the folders that I want. I tried to explain why but it seems they didn't want explanations and clarifications. They just wanted to convert me. :D
 
singularity35 said:
I was kinda baffled at why the cheese cutter's knife people were so vehement in trying to convince me that I had no use/need for some of the folders that I want. I tried to explain why but it seems they didn't want explanations and clarifications. They just wanted to convert me. :D
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I think you're just generally baffled on a lot of things.
 
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