Higher standards for hard use folders today?

marthinus said:
We have folders that are hard use and folders that are thin and focused on slicing. There is a demand for both. We are debating personal opinions at the moment and people are trying to influence other peoples opinion on the matter.
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This. plus 1! so you all better stop trying to influence me to settle for slipjoints or cheese cutters. :D
 
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marthinus said:
And that is the thing. It can be wow to you but others might think its :thumbdn: and dumb.

And I could care less what they think. :D


We have folders that are hard use and folders that are thin and focused on slicing. There is a demand for both. I have my share of those too... We are debating personal opinions at the moment and people are trying to influence other peoples opinion on the matter.

Some feel that a slip joint is all that they need for 'hard use' others feel that a Strider or ZT or Lawman is for them the folders for 'hard use'. I just hate it when I'm using a slip joint and it folds inward on my fingers; I'm not perfect with a knife, I make mistakes, and slip joints sometimes can bite... What is 'hard use' has also been debated on this forum and once again....the credibility of certain 'tests' as well........its up to your opinion and your opinion only if these hold water for you or not. Right about that; and I sure do check out those "hard tests" as there is valuable info in them for me...

Some have the luxury of having the right tool for every job, they know exactly where their tools are because they are neat and no struggling to find a tool. Others do not and use what they have. Hello, that often describes me...

Doing some pruning a folder might be all you need. Doing pruning on wine orchards and only using a knife, well good luck with that, that is why we get special pruning shears that work with gears and cut trough a 2inch branch without trouble.

We have hard use knives (maybe) because not everyone could afford a high quality axe or screwdriver and used their knives to baton. They and others were not happy and wanted something beefier to handle those things, so demand was created for such tools. Others could afford an axe and screwdriver and they dont see the need for a folder to do those things.

Folderguy not picking on you just used your post to illustrate the point that for plenty it is wow but others might just think it dumb. All personal opinion and preference.
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I definitely wasn't picking on anybody; thank you for mentioning that. ;)

As I try not to be a boring guy, I like things that are un-boring, and every knife I own has something about it that's out of the ordinary, something special, at least in my eyes. If I want boring, I'll just pick up a $1.00 special at the Dollar Store.

(Some of my comments are inside the quote, and are bold and larger.)
 
If we're now calling the clip pointed, hollow ground, Buck 110 a "hard use folder," then the term means next to nothing these days.:D
 
Boats said:
If we're now calling the clip pointed, hollow ground, Buck 110 a "hard use folder," then the term means next to nothing these days.:D
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I was back then. :D :thumbup:

I know because I used to pound on them (With a hammer), pry with them and all the other things that hard use folder are supposed to do. The lock wasn't really all that great though and I wasted a few over the years.

It's really not by todays standards and they have changed them over the years.

Compared to some of the current cheese slicers we have today the Buck 110 was a tank. :D
 
So, anyone who owns a locking folder technically more capable than a $40.00 Buck 110 has a "hard use folder?"

I had better go tell my Benchmade Griptilian the good news.
 
Boats said:
So, anyone who owns a locking folder technically more capable than a $40.00 Buck 110 has a "hard use folder?"

I had better go tell my Benchmade Griptilian the good news.
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That's not what I said. ;)

The older 110's (70's) had thicker blades and tips on them so they really could be used to prying and other stuff without snapping the tip off easy.

The Griptillian isn't a hard use folder because the blade is too thin for prying. It's still a good knife though for medium use.
 
Ankerson said:
That's not what I said. ;)

The older 110's (70's) had thicker blades and tips on them so they really could be used to prying and other stuff.

The Griptillian isn't a hard use folder because the blade is too thin for prying. It's still a good knife though for medium use.
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Well, now we're getting somewhere, since this thread has been long on rhetoric and short on examples of what actually constitutes hard use.

So far, the "hard use" list includes:

Batoning, (I gotta give this one the "I'm a crappy bush crafter" award. I mean c'mon, really?),
Prying, (Prying what, barnacles? A manhole cover? The hood open after the release fails?),
Perforating sheet metal, (I suppose one could baton one's way out of their wrecked car before the Jaw of Life arrive),
Stabbing humans, (Though this one is rather dubious given all of the crappy knives that have been used as murder weapons). . .and
. . .what exactly?
 
I'm still confused at the tank-sized folders when the size of the thing starts to approach that of a fixed blade. I'll go back to my buddies old Manix as an example or a couple of the Stryder's I've handled. You can have a good stout 3.5" fixed blade (yes smaller blade length than on some of the bigger folders) that will still be far more robust than the tank-like folder. An example would be something like the Bark River Gunny or an ESEE-4. I would argue that belt carry of these blades is more convenient than a tank-like folder in your pocket. It is actually rather comical to see a knife-nut's pocket bowing under gravity from the clip.

Its not a public sensitivity issue. My experience has been rather overwhelming that a simple fixed blade (read NOT Dark-Ops style knife with teeth and coat hooks on the blade) rarely draws attention when the blade is sheathed on my belt or being used. I'm of course talking about a 3-4" knife not a big blade. On the other hand, a tactical style folder always brings attention from the public. Indeed it was already admitted on this thread that the visuals of these things are what often hooks buyers into the purchase. I understand legality can be an issue. I'm fortunate to live somewhere where blade length or carry methods are not legal issues.

I don't often try to make statements for 'right tool for the right job' - I'm anything but, and it is a reason why I like blades owing to their flexibility of use patterns. However, there is a point to this where it gets a bit ridiculous. If I were really trying to justify my carry need for robustness, I just cannot get it out of my head of why the thought 'folder' would even come into the equation - locking or not. if I were really trying to justify a carry option because I needed a prybar, screwdriver and edge then it would seem that a multitool or SAK would be a far smarter option and just as easily carried as the expensive folder.

I do get it that there is a fascination about the engineering of a solid, well built folder. The engagement felt/heard from opening one of Chris Reeve's masterpieces is a pretty satisfying thing. You can also immediately tell the quality of engineering of a folder by opening it up and closing it to feel its action, lock and smoothness of the lock disengagement. There isn't anything like those kind of quality checks that you can use with a fixed blade. All you can do is sharpen it and sometimes you get a feeling of the steel characteristics through that process.

So it would seem to come down to preference and some sort of aesthetic and would I surmise is still a misguided interpretation of functional compromise. Oh well, I suppose that it is good that the cutlery industry is keeping alive and well because of this trend.
 
MikeC said:
Just look back over the last ten years and see how far knives have come, all the new boutique steels, the composites, manf methods, et al. You can get stuff now that wasn't even on the radar 10 years ago, and then look year to year now, not decade to decade.
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I agree, new materials are introduced, but I really wouldn't say knives have increased in functionality at all. I love how you used the word 'boutique' to describe new steels. Was that a Freudian slip? ;) I guess if you are concerned about keeping your blade shiny and tough then yes, there have been improvements. If you don't care much about patina, then you can get great performance with steels that have been around for a 100 years.
 
Boats said:
Well, now we're getting somewhere, since this thread has been long on rhetoric and short on examples of what actually constitutes hard use.

So far, the "hard use" list includes:

Batoning, (I gotta give this one the "I'm a crappy bush crafter" award. I mean c'mon, really?),
Prying, (Prying what, barnacles? A manhole cover? The hood open after the release fails?),
Perforating sheet metal, (I suppose one could baton one's way out of their wrecked car before the Jaw of Life arrive),
Stabbing humans, (Though this one is rather dubious given all of the crappy knives that have been used as murder weapons). . .and
. . .what exactly?
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As has been said before nobody's forcing you to buy any of it. It's your opinion, We hard use guys have ours. What butthurt is that for you? ;)
 
I never realized there was so much hate for these folders. Since you guys are happy with the other than hard use folders that's what you should stick with. I don't need someone else's uninformed opinion on what I should be carrying. Yes, I drive a 4 wheel drive and rarely use it. Get stuck one time and sit on your a$@ on the side of the road for hours and you rethink things. Like I've said before, my SMF is a lot of knife in a thin, light weight, easy to carry package. I don't pry with it but I may need to one day for some unknown reason. I'd rather have it and not need it than be sol. Carry your prybar and knife if you want to, but don't act like someone rides the short bus cause they like hard use folders.
 
mjolnir74 said:
I never realized there was so much hate for these folders. Since you guys are happy with the other than hard use folders that's what you should stick with. I don't need someone else's uninformed opinion on what I should be carrying. Yes, I drive a 4 wheel drive and rarely use it. Get stuck one time and sit on your a$@ on the side of the road for hours and you rethink things. Like I've said before, my SMF is a lot of knife in a thin, light weight, easy to carry package. I don't pry with it but I may need to one day for some unknown reason. I'd rather have it and not need it than be sol. Carry your prybar and knife if you want to, but don't act like someone rides the short bus cause they like hard use folders.
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This too!
 
mjolnir74 said:
I never realized there was so much hate for these folders. Since you guys are happy with the other than hard use folders that's what you should stick with. I don't need someone else's uninformed opinion on what I should be carrying. Yes, I drive a 4 wheel drive and rarely use it. Get stuck one time and sit on your a$@ on the side of the road for hours and you rethink things. Like I've said before, my SMF is a lot of knife in a thin, light weight, easy to carry package. I don't pry with it but I may need to one day for some unknown reason. I'd rather have it and not need it than be sol. Carry your prybar and knife if you want to, but don't act like someone rides the short bus cause they like hard use folders.
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Never mistake disdain for hatred. When what is described as "hard use" could alternately be called Tales Of Knife Abuse From The Short Bus--Or Why Don't I Carry A Freakin Expendable SAK For a Screwdriver, Can Opener, Bottle Opener, Wire Stripper Etc.? it's rather difficult to escape the stereotyping.
 
Boats said:
Never mistake disdain for hatred. When what is described as "hard use" could alternately be called Tales Of Knife Abuse From The Short Bus--Or Why Don't I Carry A Freakin Expendable SAK For a Screwdriver, Can Opener, Bottle Opener, Wire Stripper Etc.? it's rather difficult to escape the stereotyping.
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Oh, but that dost sound like hatred to mine ears.
 
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