Hinderer heat treats

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For my clarity.
Are you say their heat treat is lower than some "expert" says is optimum, or lower than they claim?
Manufacturers build knives as they see fit, and that can include heat treat.
 
Yo Mama said:
Transparent Knives is who got the cease and desist letter. He also made quite a bit of money off of the donations he received to fight the hinderer machine, which never sued, and low and behold the money was not returned to my knowledge to anyone that donated to the moron. Nice publicity stunt for TK. I'll let others decide this guy's mental status if you go on Instagram.
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I agree with this. It was a poor showing all around. Hinderer didnt look good (and this aint the first time hes acted an ass), but transparent, who now sells reblade services (at rediculous prices, fwiw) did have a good reason to "find it lacking" if you understand my meaning?
 
wonkaman4609 said:
I agree with ya or how people freak out like I'm bashing the brand I just asked if anyone knew what he treated his magnacut too. You'd think I'd said all hinderer knives are trash. Which I didnt.
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Ya, this forum (and any forum for any hobby honestly) is touchy about items they have a vested interest in, either emotional or financial. But this forum, and another large tool forum are the "worst" ive seen in that regard. A wealth of knowledge and good guys here, but they have some... odd ways. This isnt a condemnation, fwiw.
 
Cgw1984 said:
Its hilarious to me how quickly thisnforum rushes to defend big makers. He sent a shit knife out,nbd, it happens. What DOESN'T always happen is childish temper tantrums. Dudes a dbag, and i don't care enough about his also-ran knives to support wackjobs. That said, the absurd hero worship of a glorified machinist is hilarious.
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Yeah...... I'll trust a guy who helped pioneer an industry for the last 35ish years over the guy in his mom's garage (literally where he operates out of). But hey, you know so much more maybe we can look forward to your knife company.
 
Yo Mama said:
Yeah...... I'll trust a guy who helped pioneer an industry for the last 35ish years over the guy in his mom's garage (literally where he operates out of). But hey, you know so much more maybe we can look forward to your knife company.
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Are you a victim of a tbi? I literally said they both were shady here. Please point out where i ONCE said i knew more about making knives than either transparent or hinderer. Ill wait. I DO know more about machining and heat treating than either of them though, that I'll promise. (Aerospace engineer with background in close tolerance machining). Fact stands. Hinderers are the best in the industry at absolutely NOTHING, so they are, effectively, an also-ran. If that hurts your feelings? I do not know what to tell you. Starting a knife company is a terrible business idea, and id never attempt it, im unsure where you got that idea from (unless it was a silly attempt to troll). Hinderer LITERALLY shut down the forum they had here because they were getting so many complaints about shitty knives.


Fwiw- Hinderer design zt knives are some of my absolute favorites.
 
Cgw1984 said:
Are you a victim of a tbi? I literally said they both were shady here. Please point out where i ONCE said i knew more about making knives than either transparent or hinderer. Ill wait. I DO know more about machining and heat treating than either of them though, that I'll promise. (Aerospace engineer with background in close tolerance machining). Fact stands. Hinderers are the best in the industry at absolutely NOTHING, so they are, effectively, an also-ran. If that hurts your feelings? I do not know what to tell you. Starting a knife company is a terrible business idea, and id never attempt it, im unsure where you got that idea from (unless it was a silly attempt to troll). Hinderer LITERALLY shut down the forum they had here because they were getting so many complaints about shitty knives.


Fwiw- Hinderer design zt knives are some of my absolute favorites.
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Ok, guy joins the forum in 2022, glad you're not resorting to name calling (but you threw out troll so you did), and says he knows more about heat treating and machining than Hinderer himself. I quoted you for posterity, one day you won't be able to log in I have a feeling.

And by the way, I have zero Hinderer knives or designs. Hinderer rightfully defended his reputation and company against amateur metallurgists.
 
wonkaman4609 said:
Did he say it was garbage? All I heard was that he said it was less then optimum for that steel composition. As far as the lawsuit I heard that he actually wanted the kid to read a pre-written apology either way I think he handled it like a child, first going after a kid on youtube and secondly this is America you may not agree with other people's opinions but everyone has there right to voice there's and it doesn't sit well with me when companies try to basically silence people that say negative things about their products. He has the right to his opinions. Also I heard the kid was actually pretty damn educated on steels. Either way it's neither here nor there. From my personal experience I prefer my magnacut to be at least 62 hrc so I was just curious if anyone knew what hinderers specs were. Apperantly noone so far knows.
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I could be remembering wrong, but the term "garbage" was specifically mentioned as well as accusations of lying, though he did seem back off of that stance later. Furthermore, I don't disagree with everything you're saying, certainly people have a right to voice negative opinions. However, I don't have to love the way Rick Hinderer handled the situation to understand that he was doing what he thought best for his small business. And that's what really happened here. This guy attacked a man's credibility, and in turn acted like it was some "big bully" corporation victimizing him when that man responded as he saw fit to protect his small American manufacturing business. A business in truth of just a handful of employees, that supports families, in real life.
 
Cgw1984 said:
Ya, this forum (and any forum for any hobby honestly) is touchy about items they have a vested interest in, either emotional or financial. But this forum, and another large tool forum are the "worst" ive seen in that regard. A wealth of knowledge and good guys here, but they have some... odd ways. This isnt a condemnation, fwiw.
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This is not an argument, but rather an observation, that occurred to me as I read your comment. Perhaps what you say is true for some, though I don't think I agree that it is worse here than elsewhere, and for the most part I've found people here to be rather matter of fact even with brands they own and love.

However, even if this was the case, it certainly stands out to me that many on the major social media platforms seem to have a vested interest in hating on certain brands, much in the same way as you are mentioning. Just an observation.

Side note: I am actually a sufferer of a TBI 🤪
 
One thing you'll realize if you stick around here for a bit that this is kind of the old school, more laid back corner of the online knife scene. Most guys here have been seriously into knives for decades, or been ferociously researching everything that has to do with them for at least some months or years. It's not the same social situation like on other social medias where people come in hot and heavy swinging. Most of the knife drama happens elsewhere and those that want to partake in it do so elsewhere. The comments you see on facebook where everyone's bashing each others choice in knives doesn't fly here. This place is more like the laid back, back porch where we just try to enjoy knives as much as possible and have a show and tell with our collections and knowledge while we sip our iced tea out of that glass jar, just how I like.
 
wonkaman4609 said:
Hey everyone! So I'm very well aware that there has been a buzz over the past 2 years or so about how Hinderer and other companies lie about there hrc of there blades I've actually been saddened to hear that lying about hrc is very common among many brands but does anyone know what hinderer treats his Magnacut too? I know it preforms best at at least 62 hrc but I can't find any information on there site and they ignore my emails inquiring about it. Not really surprising considering it's the same company that sues youtubers that test there steel and post about how soft it is
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Lying? Lying imply that they would claim something other than what they know it to be in reality. Knowing is a key word here. Now, why would they do that? Especially on something like the hardness they temper their blades at?

You don't save any money by redrawing at a lower hardness, in fact it could be argued that it cost more given that a higher temperature is required, so more energy is consumed and more time is taken.

Now it could happen that a knive blade wasn't hardened properly(because a thermocouple was faulty in the furnace, or a timer broke down, or simply a worker in a rush to leave for home on friday afternoon and quenched blades too early etc) and it left the factory anyway. But that's a quality control issue, a wholly different pot of beans than knowingly misleading your customers.

Or they could be redrawing at a lower hrc than what self proclaimed internet "experts" claim it should be done at, in order to achieve the toughness, or any other properties, they desire.

But lying? I would need to see serious proof before I believe something like that. It doesn't even make sense.
 
The Italians and Chinese manufacturers are known for running their m390/20CV/204p on the soft side. CRK ran their S35VN slightly soft too. While this sacrifices a little edge retention (so I've heard) it increases edge stability/resistance to chipping (so I've heard). I surmise that Hinderer might do the same, but in that I don't own one, nor do I plan to, I have no monkey in that part of this poop throwing contest.
 
I've done my research (watched a lot of YouTube videos), it looks like a 61.5 HRC to me.

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Allegations without evidence to back it up are empty. We can sit around here all day long and point to "he said" or "she said" or "some schmo on youtube" said.

If you're going to point fingers...back it up with facts. We should never run from facts and truth...but spurious, unsupported allegations will not be tolerated.

Keep it civil, make your case and move on.
 
wonkaman4609 said:
I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything. I've heard in multiple forums and on multiple well respected youtube channels including transparent knives. that many companies treat there steels lower them optimum specs on purpose, in some cases to save costs on manufacturing. As far as the Hinderer knives that part. That isn't hearsay. Its well known that Hinderer knives did send a cease and desist letter and pursue a lawsuit to get him to recant his statements on the steel which tested below optimum levels. I don't ever even think he said that hinderer lied about the hrc. I think he simply stated that it was below what was optimum for the steel.
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This line of posting from a brand new poster is "Transparent" to say the least. :rolleyes:

Losers living at home with their Mom and doing reblades for knives designed by much better engineers and makers don't deserve the fanbase they receive, and I'm always forced to conclude that it's because a lot of people aren't that bright.
 
wonkaman4609 said:
Considering I teardown about 2000 lbs of cardboard a day at my job I can tell you first hand that magnacut blade under 62 hrc definitely won't last as long as one that is, before having to hone and strop it back. Your right most people probably wouldn't notice but most is not all. I would venture to say that if your knife boasting 63 hrc is accurate then your hinderer may be around the same. But then again that depends like you said most people wouldn't notice a difference but for all I know you open two box's a year with your rotation or maybe you use them every day.
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If you have to break down "about 2000 lbs of cardboard" every day, then seems to me you should be using a boxcutter. Magnacut isn't wizardry, no matter what HRC it's at. It will get dull, as will virtually every other supersteel at that level of daily usage. I couldn't imagine using a knife for such work, unless of course, your absolute favorite pasttime is sharpening.

Unless by "teardown", you simply mean cutting tape and folding boxes flat, at which point, a cheap Kershaw could get it done. 🤷
 
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