Hogue making Benchmade clones?

[rexromic]

Proof CRK isn’t as original in the design process as they pretend they are from their lofty view of themselves

Except after Chris made framelock titanium folder Sebenza,mass of manufacturers followed his design.Thanks to CRK you have all those great folders which came after Sebenza in design and looks trying to match quality and succes but there is only one Sebenza!
Simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances,customer service is still unmatched by any.My 2 cents and I'am out.Cheers you all!

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Except after Chris made framelock titanium folder Sebenza,mass of manufacturers followed his design.Thanks to CRK you have all those great folders which came after Sebenza in design and looks trying to match quality and succes but there is only one Sebenza!
Simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances,customer service is still unmatched by any.My 2 cents and I'am out.Cheers you all!

Don’t forget Chris didn’t patent the framelock either, which he could have!

 

[Fonedork]

This is just a tribute

 

[BTTLBRN]

I think Hogue actually somewhat failed in the design as well, if this is a “rescue” knife; it should have had at least some serrations.

 

[JacksonKnives]

Before going off on Hogue for stealing, I'd first want to know who owns the rights to Elishewitz' Stryker design (which the BM Triage is clearly based on), which BM has been profiting off of for decades, but which was only credited to Elishewitz on the very early production, and since has been treated like a 'BM house design'.

Did he sell BM the Stryker design in perpetuity? Has BM been ripping him off? BM also recently discontinued the Stryker line, did Elishewitz get the rights back, and thus sell the design to Hogue?

Benchmade and Elishewitz have now been "on the outs" since 2001. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/benchmade-and-allan-elishewitz-what-gives.174348/#post-1422945

That's almost three times as long a period as Elishewitz had been making knives as a custom maker before he was picked up by BM. He was only with them for 6 and a half years. The Stryker was not immediately discontinued the way other (e.g. BobT and Crawford) designs were, so I'm assuming BM either bought it out or it was made under the terms of a contract.

This stuff is ancient history, like the Spyderco/BM stuff.

That said, I suspect the relationship between Elishewitz and Benchmade has something to do with the aggressive stance Hogue took toward BM. (I wasn't aware of how integral Elishewitz was to Hogue's knife division until I did a bit more reading.)

The way BM ditched H&K, Lone Wolf, etc. around the same time Hogue started also created a great opportunity.

The Stryker was re-released by BM as an assist and Axis version long after Elishewitz parted ways with them. The model number does testify to the relationship, but IMO the main features that made the Triage popular (Axis lock, blunt tip option) are not part of the original Stryker design.

On top of that, the Hogue design has more in common with the post-Elishewitz modifications in the Triage than it does with the original Stryker. If Elishewitz has wanted to re-released the Stryker with its original handle profile, disk opener etc. I would have no problem with that (AFAIK he's been making custom Strykers all along) but the Trauma is only similar in the rough silhouette of the handle.

 

[Stahlmann]

Andrew Demko absolutely owns the tri-ad lock, I said axis lock and that is well known to be expired. The axis lock was licensed to cold steel to be used under the ultra-lock name, that is very easy to look up or you could just own some and been around long enough to know that. Look around the internet. The expiration of the copywrite/patent was big news in the knife industry for many years, Sal Glesser has mentioned it as did AG Russell just before his passing. Obviously you are much more well informed than everyone else so I will bow to your superiority.

So did you just make-up the comment about Hogue buying from BM?

 

[Stahlmann]

Except after Chris made framelock titanium folder Sebenza,mass of manufacturers followed his design.Thanks to CRK you have all those great folders which came after Sebenza in design and looks trying to match quality and succes but there is only one Sebenza!
Simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances,customer service is still unmatched by any.My 2 cents and I'am out.Cheers you all!

Well, there's both the 21 and 31 that I'm aware of.

There's also plenty of knives -- some priced far lower than the Sebenza, which compare VERY favorably in terms of "simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances and customer service."

 

[rexromic]

Well, there's both the 21 and 31 that I'm aware of.

There's also plenty of knives -- some priced far lower than the Sebenza, which compare VERY favorably in terms of "simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances and customer service."

Would you mind naming few comparable ones?Very curious to know.Thanks.

 

[Stahlmann]

Would you mind naming few comparable ones?Very curious to know.Thanks.

I won't get into individual models, but I would recommend beginning by browsing perhaps the WE Knife Company's catalog, and that of CRKT as a start. Good browsing!

 

[DMG]

I won't get into individual models, but I would recommend beginning by browsing perhaps the WE Knife Company's catalog, and that of CRKT as a start. Good browsing!

Could someone call for a welfare check on Stahlmann? I think he is having a stroke.

 

[rexromic]

I won't get into individual models, but I would recommend beginning by browsing perhaps the WE Knife Company's catalog, and that of CRKT as a start. Good browsing!

Ok so WE knives are solid but few things I don’t like about them compared to CRK are,flipper,bearings,proprietary tool,lockbar insert,looks and when you disassemble them you have to play with tightening the pivot.Those are all unnecessary features which does not have because of superior design.Also I like my knives manufactured in the US instead of China as my personal preference.
Sebenza has simple tool,less parts and way better resale value as well.
If you meant CRKT as Columbia River Knife and Tool as comparable to CRK then that is not something which is in the same league with CRK.
Anyway I respect your choices and wish you all the best but will stick with my favourite brand CRK as my perfection in simplicity.
Cheers!

 

[Stahlmann]

Could someone call for a welfare check on Stahlmann? I think he is having a stroke.

Why the asshole remark? Have you nothing constructive to add?

 

[Stahlmann]

Ok so WE knives are solid but few things I don’t like about them compared to CRK are,flipper,bearings,proprietary tool,lockbar insert,looks and when you disassemble them you have to play with tightening the pivot.Those are all unnecessary features which does not have because of superior design.Also I like my knives manufactured in the US instead of China as my personal preference.
Sebenza has simple tool,less parts and way better resale value as well.
If you meant CRKT as Columbia River Knife and Tool as comparable to CRK then that is not something which is in the same league with CRK.
Anyway I respect your choices and wish you all the best but will stick with my favourite brand CRK as my perfection in simplicity.
Cheers!

We all have our personal preferences and that's fine. I was just pointing out that your comment "simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances,customer service is still unmatched by any" is erroneous.

So often I see people struggle with for them is the the "Rolex vs. Casio Conundrum." Argue that Rolex watches are much bigger status symbols, superior pieces of jewelry and perhaps better investments, and that's fine -- I wouldn't argue against that. However, attempt to argue Rolexs keep more accurate time, and they're more rugged and you'll run into difficulties. Of course few would do that today when it comes to watches. Quite a few however still do so when it comes to knives for some reason. It's improving, so that's a huge plus...

 

[DMG]

I t

Why the asshole remark? Have you nothing constructive to add?

Anyone that compares CRKT to CRK should

A. be able to take a joke.
B. not be concerned with adding something constructive.

 

[DMG]

We all have our personal preferences and that's fine. I was just pointing out that your comment "simplicity of design,lesser parts,ease of maintenance,durability,user friendly look with great steel,fit and finish,tolerances,customer service is still unmatched by any" is erroneous.

So often I see people struggle with for them is the the "Rolex vs. Casio Conundrum." Argue that Rolex watches are much bigger status symbols, better pieces of jewelry and perhaps better investments, and that's fine. However, attempt to argue they keep more accurate time and they're more rugged and you'll run into difficulties. Of course few would do that today when it comes to watches. Quite a few still do it however when it comes to knives it seems...

That comparison works because Casio makes great watches.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Personally I think this is much ado about nothing.

They are similar, but have noticeable differences in handle shape and blade profile.

There is no mistaking that they are comparable, but I would not call the Houge a clone.

 

[thebrain]

So did you just make-up the comment about Hogue buying from BM?

Firstly I think you absolutely know you come across as an ass. Secondly I heard it on at least one YouTube video and read it on three separate apparently incorrect knife based web pages. Thirdly when you mentioned the tri-ad lock in response to my talking about the Axis lock I realized you were reading to respond not reading for comprehension, in my first post I never mentioned the tri-ad lock.
I don't really care about Benchmade anymore. In my experience over the last few years they no longer care about quality control or getting heat treat dialed in. Hogue on the other hand is doing very well indeed, I enjoy the quality, fit & finish, designs and heat treat.

 

[DMG]

Just speculation but if the Triage is an Elishewitz design and Elishewitz works for Hogue now, it is entirely possible that there is no treachery on the part of Hogue.

 

[strategy9]

So is it (very) similar, yes... without question!

But, the patent on the axis lock design expired, all companies are now ok to use it, and Hogue has been doing it better by many reputable reports (incl. beefier springs)... Ganzo was blatantly doing it while the patent was still owned by BM, as blatent Chinese theft of intellectual property with complete disregard to any law... not even close to the same... do we fault every company that uses back locks or frame locks as "ripping off" designs? No. A good useable design is a good useable design, and if another company uses it and even does it well, then there is absolutely nothing to fault them on... similarly to companies using holes instead of studs inspired by Spyderco... Syderco has the patent on the perfect circle, but an oval is fine right? Once the patent expires, I definitely would not hate another company for using a circle.

2nd, while extremely close in design, definitely even inspired by, enough angles and subtle differences are in fact not identical, as well as the addition of the tank adjustment cut out, (remember Hogue also manufactured the HK Karma), that I can comfortably say, that while it is without a doubt a VERY similar design, with full legal respect to intellectual property laws, it is not necessarily a "clone"... did we knock every company who made a legitimate quality knife similar to a Buck 110?

Lastly, as others have pointed out, for all I/we know the same designer is behind both, (Elishewitz?) and simply got a new job with a new company? Or owned the design rights and contracted it out with a new company? Or maybe hogue actually paid Benchmade to use the design? Without that information, I'm not about to start throwing stones. "If" it is a blatant theft of design, I'm sure it would turn up in a court case sooner rather then later, being 2 American companies where intellectual property is still protected, and law suits are hardly uncommon in our culture, so because I have yet to hear BM raise a stink about it, I have to (at least for now) assume it was all done legit without foul play involved.

 

[strategy9]

Hogue also doesn't chop-up confiscated firearms in its shop...

They'll make some sweet grips for 'em though!