Hogue making Benchmade clones?

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Stahlmann said:
Yeah? Any proof of all this? What is your "understanding" based upon? Hogue is an integrated machining (they even do contract machining), molding, woodworking and finishing operation. It would make no sense to have BM make their knives. Where exactly would the profit be in doing that? As far as I know, except for heat-treating, Hogue does everything themselves.

The Tri-Ad was invented by Andrew Demko, who owns it, uses it in the knives his own company produces, and licenses it to other makers. Where did you learn it has "expired?"
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Andrew Demko absolutely owns the tri-ad lock, I said axis lock and that is well known to be expired. The axis lock was licensed to cold steel to be used under the ultra-lock name, that is very easy to look up or you could just own some and been around long enough to know that. Look around the internet. The expiration of the copywrite/patent was big news in the knife industry for many years, Sal Glesser has mentioned it as did AG Russell just before his passing. Obviously you are much more well informed than everyone else so I will bow to your superiority.
 

I got a reply from Benchmade on Axis lock patent

Just wanted to share with you all. It seems many people are not sure if Benchmade’s Axis lock patent is expired or not. I asked it here before and there was a lot of speculation and hositlity. I got a reply from Benchmade. I was not sure if I should put service rep’s name & contact, so I...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Regarding Hog
Monofletch said:
Hogue owns HK knives too. I wonder what kind of intellectual property came with that buy out.....
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I may have been misinformed about the Benchmade, hogue connection because of the Elizhewitz and HK connection. The designer are getting more savy and making the contracts more favorable by having the design or design elements revert back to them after the relationship is complete.
 
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Before going off on Hogue for stealing, I'd first want to know who owns the rights to Elishewitz' Stryker design (which the BM Triage is clearly based on), which BM has been profiting off of for decades, but which was only credited to Elishewitz on the very early production, and since has been treated like a 'BM house design'.

Did he sell BM the Stryker design in perpetuity? Has BM been ripping him off? BM also recently discontinued the Stryker line, did Elishewitz get the rights back, and thus sell the design to Hogue?
 
Reswob said:
Before going off on Hogue for stealing, I'd first want to know who owns the rights to Elishewitz' Stryker design (which the BM Triage is clearly based on), which BM has been profiting off of for decades, but which was only credited to Elishewitz on the very early production, and since has been treated like a 'BM house design'.

Did he sell BM the Stryker design in perpetuity? Has BM been ripping him off? BM also recently discontinued the Stryker line, did Elishewitz get the rights back, and thus sell the design to Hogue?
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Lots of good questions there. Not a lot of information at this point. I have nothing invested in this...but I think that Hogue and BM are the only ones who could answer any and all of our questions
 
After reading this thread I have no idea on the legal and ethical questions. However as a consumer who appreciates the quality of Hogue's products and as a hobbyist who enjoys the knife community I just hope that the hardest working member of the Hogue design team doesn't become the photocopier.
 
Stahlmann said:
Yeah? Any proof of all this? What is your "understanding" based upon? Hogue is an integrated machining (they even do contract machining), molding, woodworking and finishing operation. It would make no sense to have BM make their knives. Where exactly would the profit be in doing that? As far as I know, except for heat-treating, Hogue does everything themselves.

The Tri-Ad was invented by Andrew Demko, who owns it, uses it in the knives his own company produces, and licenses it to other makers. Where did you learn it has "expired?"
Click to expand...
on tri-ad patent registration. shows demko invented it but doesn't own the tri-ad. im no patent lawyer so excuse my poor terminology, but demko said as much in a video. he can't make knives with it anymore currently. he said so himself. gsm shows as owner or assignee of the tri-ad currently.

link showing what I said.....

US20080040931A1 - Locking device for a folding knife - Google Patents

A folding knife having an improved locking mechanism that keeps the knife in an open extended use position until specific close actions are initiated. The improved locking mechanism provides a safety pin that is secured within the frame elements so as to be positioned between the knife blade and...
patents.google.com

on benchmade its well known they put a patent on a plunge lock spine side safety they didn't invent and everyone was using. then they went after makers using it and basically forced by legal actions on makers to abandon it. which led to a terrible idea back into side opener autos. the recessed button. which George Schrade tried over 100 years ago and realized it didn't work over 100 years ago and stopped doing it and started adding safeties.

while this topic of Hogue and such i dont know any details so i have no educated opinion on it, but benchmade hasn't exactly played a good game over the years. that aside two wrongs dont make a right. I have no idear on the legal details, so I'll refrain from speculating. that wont be helpful at all.
 
rexromic said:
Actually blade on Hogue reminds me of CRK Insingo shape.
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Well, there it is...someone said it. Haha. I’ve been refraining since I first saw the photo, as not to bring CRK into the thread. Haha.
 
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Sharp & Fiery said:
Well, there it is...someone said it. Haha. I’ve been refraining since I first saw the photo, as not to being CRK into the thread. Haha.
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Proof CRK isn’t as original in the design process as they pretend they are from their lofty view of themselves
 
Any concern I might once have had for BM's welfare or rights went through their shredder and got recycled into distain . :mad: :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
 
Blues said:
I look at it like this. The law is what the law is...and makers and manufacturers can avail themselves of it if they feel (via their attorneys) that there is a case to be made.

On the other hand, I get to make my choices for myself and vote with my own money. I choose not to reward those whose ethics I question. Others are more forgiving. C'est la vie.

How and where to draw the line requires Potter Stewart like powers of discrimination. (Look him up if you don't know what I'm referring to.)
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Benchmade doesn't have a legal argument to make, so they're SOL in court. Their only recourse is getting the public on their side.

Stahlmann said:
Yeah? Any proof of all this? What is your "understanding" based upon? Hogue is an integrated machining (they even do contract machining), molding, woodworking and finishing operation. It would make no sense to have BM make their knives. Where exactly would the profit be in doing that? As far as I know, except for heat-treating, Hogue does everything themselves.

The Tri-Ad was invented by Andrew Demko, who owns it, uses it in the knives his own company produces, and licenses it to other makers. Where did you learn it has "expired?"
Click to expand...

thebrain said:
Andrew Demko absolutely owns the tri-ad lock, I said axis lock and that is well known to be expired. The axis lock was licensed to cold steel to be used under the ultra-lock name, that is very easy to look up or you could just own some and been around long enough to know that. Look around the internet. The expiration of the copywrite/patent was big news in the knife industry for many years, Sal Glesser has mentioned it as did AG Russell just before his passing. Obviously you are much more well informed than everyone else so I will bow to your superiority.
Click to expand...

jbmonkey said:
on tri-ad patent registration. shows demko invented it but doesn't own the tri-ad. im no patent lawyer so excuse my poor terminology, but demko said as much in a video. he can't make knives with it anymore currently. he said so himself. gsm shows as owner or assignee of the tri-ad currently.

link showing what I said.....

US20080040931A1 - Locking device for a folding knife - Google Patents

A folding knife having an improved locking mechanism that keeps the knife in an open extended use position until specific close actions are initiated. The improved locking mechanism provides a safety pin that is secured within the frame elements so as to be positioned between the knife blade and...
patents.google.com

on benchmade its well known they put a patent on a plunge lock spine side safety they didn't invent and everyone was using. then they went after makers using it and basically forced by legal actions on makers to abandon it. which led to a terrible idea back into side opener autos. the recessed button. which George Schrade tried over 100 years ago and realized it didn't work over 100 years ago and stopped doing it and started adding safeties.

while this topic of Hogue and such i dont know any details so i have no educated opinion on it, but benchmade hasn't exactly played a good game over the years. that aside two wrongs dont make a right. I have no idear on the legal details, so I'll refrain from speculating. that wont be helpful at all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Andrew Demko absolutely assigned the patent to the Tri-Ad lock to Cold Steel (whether because he invented it while on their dime or they just bought it from him). He can still use the patented lock because he's worked out a way to license it back from CS.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
Yeah, Andrew Demko absolutely assigned the patent to the Tri-Ad lock to Cold Steel (whether because he invented it while on their dime or they just bought it from him). He can still use the patented lock because he's worked out a way to license it back from CS.
Click to expand...
Andrew said himself in a video, he can't use it very recently since he left employment from gsm.

once the patent expires then I guess he can.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
If his use in customs was tied to his CS employment, then he's going to have to wait until 2026 when the patent expires.
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he said as much in the video. why we're seeing shark locks mainly now. nothing wrong with those. awesome lock as well.
 
ibute21 said:
It was an exclusive blade shape designed by the owners of Knifeart. Nice try.
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I wouldn't pay too close attention to this member regarding CRK, he posts often with a significant axe to grind. If I recall it was over what he believed to be a poor heat treat (I doubt he ever contacted CRK for warranty/replacement); and has made erroneous claims about CRK voiding warranties if you actually carry your knife.

As far as this particular set of knives; the similarities are pretty apparent but for the blade shape - perhaps that is the justification?
 
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