Hogue making Benchmade clones?

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JacksonKnives said:
Ritter wanted to keep the knife in production, definitely. Benchmade decided not to make it anymore. It's possible the relationship between Benchmade and KnifeRights went sour somewhere, or it was a simple tightening of the purse strings. But the "Ritter Grip" was always a generous gift to Ritter. It's Mel Pardue's design, slightly modified.
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I remember there being a little bit of a controversy because Ritter supposedly found out that Benchmade was discontinuing the Ritter Grip when Benchmade announced it publicly. I'm pretty sure it was the same year they decided to stop making H&K, Bone Collector, and other non-Benchmade branded knives. They just wanted to consolidate everything they made under the name Benchmade, rather than Brand X, made by Benchmade.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Bare with me here gentleman...first photo is Hogue Trauma.
Second is the H@K Karma
And third is the benchmade triage.

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I’m thinking because Hogue kept some of the original angles of the Karma...and added a different blade shape and the butt finger choil. If they hold the rights to the H&K designs...their trauma is a modified version of the Karma.

The triage blade shape is not patented...neither is the Trauma blade shape...AFAIK.

I honestly don’t think BM would have a leg to stand on. Based on if it’s a modified H&K.

I have no dog in this fight, just seeing similarities to all three.
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All three knives have the same features yes, but it's not the features that I take issue with. I doubt the triage is the first knife to combine a sheepsfoot blade, seatbelt cutter, and glass breaker. That's about where the similarites stop between the triage and the karma. But the trauma? Look how the handle is shaped like the triage, even including the funky scallop at the back for your pinky, which is not at all a common design choice. The blade shapes look almost identical and are made of the same steel. They both have the same type of pocket clip, which isn't the standard fare for either company. The h&k is it's own design, but I think it's obvious that whoever "designed" the hogue trauma was staring at a picture of the triage while they drew it.

Is it legal? Probably, but I don't know and I don't really care. My point is that copying designs is lazy and of questionable character. Hogue can and should do better.
 
Random Dan said:
All three knives have the same features yes, but it's not the features that I take issue with. I doubt the triage is the first knife to combine a sheepsfoot blade, seatbelt cutter, and glass breaker. That's about where the similarites stop between the triage and the karma. But the trauma? Look how the handle is shaped like the triage, even including the funky scallop at the back for your pinky, which is not at all a common design choice. The blade shapes look almost identical and are made of the same steel. They both have the same type of pocket clip, which isn't the standard fare for either company. The h&k is it's own design, but I think it's obvious that whoever "designed" the hogue trauma was staring at a picture of the triage while they drew it.

Is it legal? Probably, but I don't know and I don't really care. My point is that copying designs is lazy and of questionable character. Hogue can and should do better.
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How does one make a knife with a sheepsfoot blade and a seatbelt cutter not look like the triage?
Here is my thing with current complaints in the knife industry. Sometimes a knife needs just a little refining, but that current company will not do the refinements...why can’t another company do them then?
It’s not an exact copy...the handle shapes are similar. They are not exact. Herein lies my problem...how does a knifemaker or knife company not make a knife that is similar to another? Seems to be most of the blade shapes have been used already, most of the steel types have been used already, most of the handle shapes have been used already.

Like I stated earlier, I have no dog in this fight. My post was more “food for thought” type. This one as well.
 
As I said before other companies have done it. Gerber, Kershaw, Smith and Wesson, Spyderco to name a few. None of them are as close to another as the Hogue is to the Benchmade. Using a similar blade shape, same steel and having a seat belt cutter and glass breaker is not the issue here. It's the uncanny resemblance to the Benchmade that is the issue. Other companies have designed a rescue knife without doing what Hogue did here.
 
I look at it like this. The law is what the law is...and makers and manufacturers can avail themselves of it if they feel (via their attorneys) that there is a case to be made.

On the other hand, I get to make my choices for myself and vote with my own money. I choose not to reward those whose ethics I question. Others are more forgiving. C'est la vie.

How and where to draw the line requires Potter Stewart like powers of discrimination. (Look him up if you don't know what I'm referring to.)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
How does one make a knife with a sheepsfoot blade and a seatbelt cutter not look like the triage?
Here is my thing with current complaints in the knife industry. Sometimes a knife needs just a little refining, but that current company will not do the refinements...why can’t another company do them then?
It’s not an exact copy...the handle shapes are similar. They are not exact. Herein lies my problem...how does a knifemaker or knife company not make a knife that is similar to another? Seems to be most of the blade shapes have been used already, most of the steel types have been used already, most of the handle shapes have been used already.

Like I stated earlier, I have no dog in this fight. My post was more “food for thought” type. This one as well.
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It wouldn't even be difficult. They could have used a handle shape similar to the deka, or literally any knife that isn't the triage, maybe even gone wild and made something new. If they'd done any of those I would have no issue.
 
For sure Blues Blues I most definitely agree.

I was just putting some “food for thought” out there.

Personally, I won’t be buying either. Haha. Not my cup ‘o tea.

Just interesting conversation to be a part of. :)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
For sure Blues Blues I most definitely agree.

I was just putting some “food for thought” out there.

Personally, I won’t be buying either. Haha. Not my cup ‘o tea.

Just interesting conversation to be a part of. :)
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I apologize if you thought I was using my post as some criticism of you. It was, in fact, just a general commentary based upon the sum of the posts here and the various ways of looking at the situation.

It never entered my mind that someone should take it otherwise. (In other words, we're cool.)
 
Blues said:
I apologize if you thought I was using my post as some criticism of you. It was, in fact, just a general commentary based upon the sum of the posts here and the various ways of looking at the situation.

It never entered my mind that someone should take it otherwise. (In other words, we're cool.)
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No need to apologize. :) It’s sometimes difficult to read the tone of text. Especially when it comes to topics like this one.

Personally, I wish Hogue would have come up with some design that was original and new. :)
 
Random Dan said:
It wouldn't even be difficult. They could have used a handle shape similar to the deka, or literally any knife that isn't the triage, maybe even gone wild and made something new. If they'd done any of those I would have no issue.
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Honestly I would have been interested in a rescue version of the X1 MicroFlip. I think Hogue makes skme of the nicest aluminum handles on the market really. The X1 is on my list.
 
Yea, I can see the point on the rip off (if it was). There is an important saying, in my faith, that encourages me to recant my support of them doing foul things ~ "Do not let your hatred drive you to injustice". Basically- I do not like Benchmade, I DO like Hogue. However, I should not allow that prejudice to cloud my ethics. Right is right, wrong is wrong, no matter who is who. My neighbors are liberals, I'd still be a douche for breaking into their garage and stealing their lawn mower.

That said, is it foul enough (with the info available) to make me stop buying Hogues? No, not if they make what I want (they still haven't). On the other hand, I DO consider what BM did foul enough to stop me from buying their products and I really like a lot of their stuff. I'd probably have at least 3 more BM's, by now, if it wasn't for their actions.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
How does one make a knife with a sheepsfoot blade and a seatbelt cutter not look like the triage?
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It's not just that:

*The unique blade grind on the blunt-tip version
*The axis lock
*The steel used

Stuff like the configuration of the seatbelt cutter and the position of the glass breaker isn't a big deal. But the combination of all these features into a package?

There's some history of Benchmade burning bridges with designers and other manufacturers. (I wonder if anyone currently working with/at Hogue has a beef with Benchmade and feels entitled to use a new company to get sweet revenge, but that's pure speculation.)

There's also a long history of Benchmade proudly crediting work done by makers I may not have heard of otherwise.

All things considered, it's pretty clear that the Trauma is capitalizing on the well-established success of the Triage, not by solving similar problems faced by first responders in an innovative way, but by solving the same problems in the same way.
 
BM destroying guns wasnt the dealbreaker that the donations to the Democrat's was. BM is dead to me.

Similar designs? Don't care, competition is good and we all benefit. Seriously doubt these guys are hurting for money.
 
thebrain said:
It is my understanding that Hogue contracted Benchmade to make most of their knives in their us facility. Nobody is "getting away" with anything. The Axis lock has been previously loaned to other knife companies (cold steel for one). The patent/copyright for the Axis lock has expired that is why you see Gerber and others using versions of it lately. So no Hogue is not "up to something" and as far as I know they have been consistent with quality and I remember reading they intend to produce knives only made in the USA.
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Yeah? Any proof of all this? What is your "understanding" based upon? Hogue is an integrated machining (they even do contract machining), molding, woodworking and finishing operation. It would make no sense to have BM make their knives. Where exactly would the profit be in doing that? As far as I know, except for heat-treating, Hogue does everything themselves.

The Tri-Ad was invented by Andrew Demko, who owns it, uses it in the knives his own company produces, and licenses it to other makers. Where did you learn it has "expired?"
 
Thankfully, I have zero interest in buying from either of these companies, so I'm not losing any sleep. Hogue has always been iffy on design choices and copying BM's style to me. And I already dislike BM (not because of the gun stuff btw), so that's a hard pass.

The Hogue is blatantly, and questionably similar to the BM, obviously. How you feel about that morally is up to you.

Just keep in mind that BM is not innocent of this. Look into the controversy between BM and Spyderco over the Spyderhole here if you want some deep knife lore. BM is not innocent.
 
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The knife business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
 
OklahomaOutlaw said:
The knife business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
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You are just describing commerce in general, honestly. There are markets that suffer way more of this than the knife community.
 
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