Honest opinion from a new Buck owner...without any bias one way or another

[110 Dave]

Wow!! This is why I can't miss a day around here. I come back and see this thread with over 100 responses... is a flame war in there somewhere, maybe two?
I'll even cover your shipping and if you send it to my attention, I'll turn it around in a week.

For what it is worth, the manufacturers suggessted retail price on a standard 110 is $62. Retailers often sell it as a loss to get customers in their store.

no this one did not turn to a flame war...
stayed as a discuson both polite and respectful

summary is:
some feel there are some issues with the way a buck 110 has been found comeing from stores over what was a few years ago

some have no issues with things and others have larger issues with the same thing
some seem to have issue with 'run of stock'

most seem to forget that the 'error' rate is less per 1 tho then a few years ago

it is jest that there are many many more 1 thos made now then before!!!!

oh well so it goes... many onions ...
some make you cry more then others

 

[aza77]

Joe Houser,

I gotta say, your company should be thrilled to have you both as an employee and a spokesman. Your desire to make and maintain a quality product to your customer comes right through your post.

I'm really happy that you chose to comment on this issue as it seems many Buck fans who have replied to this post feel that people should not speak up about things like this ( as if it's protecting the company). In fact, I don't know if you read through the whole posting, but many feel that this is normal procedure and said in no less words, "if you don't like it this way, don't buy it." My whole point was, "I like the product, but I'd like to get one that looks brand new without any factory flaws."

Buck should be happy that they have such great fans out there that would be willing to ignore a few minor quality issues...but my overall point was that the average consumer is not so forgiving. In essense, as a new Buck owner, I would think it better for the first knife to be gleamingly polished, not mismatched to that degree and put together the best possible way, so as to ensure a "wow" feeling once the package is opened and keep returns and repairs to a minimum. If it wasn't for the clamshell packaging being unopened, this knife really looked like it was used and old (except for the blade of course).

Your post has also furthered to show that these problems are in fact "issues" that may need to be addressed...and obviously holds more water when you say it as opposed to myself who is a non expert in any regard.

My solution after awhile was to exchange the knife for a new one. To be honest, the new knife is only marginally better...still a great blade, but scuffed quite a bit (brass) and with completely different scales...and I mean completely... but the rivets were better. The new sheath also had some issues (cosmetic) on the belt loop. But I have decided to keep the knife because I like your company and what it stands for...and now especially because of your amazing offer to remedy the sitation.

As an addition to the story, I went out and got a 119 with black handle and black leather sheath. To those of you who have been defending the 110 and it's packaging issues saying that I was just bashing Buck, I must say that the 119 is COMPLETELY perfect in EVERY regard. The fit and finish, the sheath, and the cleanliness was in my opinion where it should be. It was a 180 degree turn from how my 110's came out of the package. The purchase was VERY satisfying.

I am now going to try and find a good price on a 120 and see how that is as well. I'm sure it will be as pristine as the 119 and from what I see, I think I will like it more.

Joe, a small idea for the packaging of the 110. Put a piece of that foam wrapping (used in the boxed version as witnessed at walmart) between the 110 and the cardboard of the clamshell and then try to fasten the knife in place using a plastic tie or some other mechanism. Most of the scuffing came from the play the knife has while it is jiggling around in the packaging. Also, there is way too much black smudging going on. Another way to go would be to have the knife suspended in a blister pack with a cut out in the cardboard for the buyer to see the other side of the scales to see if it's matched properly. I would also reccommed trying to have a bit more uniformity with the scales if possible. It's just a very glaring detail that a new purchaser notices...and I don't know if the "individuality" argument is more important than the sheer asthetic of having what looks to be matched sides in a mass produced product....which is what most of us have become used to and expect as well.

Think of it this way, if you were putting together your own knife...I think most people would look to match the sides if they could. Don't you think? Is it possible? Some people on this forum have led me to believe that it's not feasable from a cost issue? Is that really true?

Thanks a lot Joe and all of those of you who have added to my knowledge. It's most appreciated and this has been a really interesting conversation.


P.S. Joe, if you guys are ever going to be interested in making eye catching commercials for Buck, please look me up! My directing career was started by a spec commercial for Apple which became hugely popular (before youtube of course) and the biggest downloaded film on ifilm for over four months. Please check it out if you have time, at this link.

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2409464

 

[kyhunt]

The standard 110 is a good all around work knife for everything. Now I will give you that the ones made today are not quite a nice looking as the ones that use to have the real wood handles, I use to have one until it was stolen. But if you want to take a step up buy either a custom or one from Cabela's Alaskan guide series. They are great knives. I have 2 stag handles ones and they are awsome. One is put up in my collection and one is waiting for next deer season. If you want a knife to brag on get one of these or a custom one. If you want just a good work knife buy the standard. As far as the rivet goes send the knife back. People are human and do make mistakes. I also collect Case and Queen knives and you will have the same issue with them. Every once in a while human error does prevail. For the money a 110 cant be beat. They are such a practical knife. I would pick the 110 over any folder on the market.

 

[Buckaholic]

The standard 110 is a good all around work knife for everything. Now I will give you that the ones made today are not quite a nice looking as the ones that use to have the real wood handles, I use to have one until it was stolen. But if you want to take a step up buy either a custom or one from Cabela's Alaskan guide series. They are great knives. I have 2 stag handles ones and they are awsome. One is put up in my collection and one is waiting for next deer season. If you want a knife to brag on get one of these or a custom one. If you want just a good work knife buy the standard. As far as the rivet goes send the knife back. People are human and do make mistakes. I also collect Case and Queen knives and you will have the same issue with them. Every once in a while human error does prevail. For the money a 110 cant be beat. They are such a practical knife. I would pick the 110 over any folder on the market.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

"That's all I have to say about that."
Forrest Goose.

.

 

[Azis]

I agree aza.... the company that will still be here in 20 years is the one that listens to unhappy consumers instead of only wanting to hear from those who can only praise them even when things may not be right. That really has nothing to do with Buck but it does have everything to do with common sense.

 

[aza77]

Azis...I definately agree with you as well. This company should be around a long long time as they have a strong desire to make the customer happy. If they can fix a couple issues on the front end, they might even save money on the repair side. And as long as they keep their old fan base and continue to gain new buyers like myself...they should prosper and grow...hopefully bringing back some off shore manufacturing as well.

 

[DWB]

Dave:

You know me very well...before I ever posted here. We speak on the phone, exchange, and trade Buck items. You know I don't bash Buck, but merely divide them into two categories: pre-1999 and post 1998. You know what I collect, chase, and use. If were talking pre-1999, you know I'll stand at your side and argue 'til the death; but I do retreat on the post 1998 issues. Wanting, hoping, and wishing things were different, unfortunately will not change things at Buck. History clearly shows that once quality evaporates, it doesn't return...sadly. This is true for EVERY company, no matter the product.

As Buck is struggling to put together a quality workforce, consumers are continuing to purchase their products. These people don't want to hear excuses, and have got a bad taste in their mouth from their sub-par Buck purchase. Once people have gotten stung, it is rare they will return to get bit again. By the time Buck (hopefully) returns to producing high quality, these one time consumers have moved on to other brands. The longer the process takes, the higher and steeper the mountain they must turn around to climb to get back to the top...if at all possible.

Regarding quality control of the 110 - I have a story to tell - which oddly enough is not about the 110 but about a "similar" product. Specifically, the Cold Steel Voyager.

I'm sure most of you are familiar with this knife but for those who aren't - the Voyager is a folding lockback similar to the 110 in size and price (but with a zytel handle) - but more particularly in many ways the Voyager is to Cold Steel what the 110 is to Buck.

So much for the introductions. I have purchased three Voyagers. The first was quite some time ago. More recently I purchased another for a friend. This newer model (slightly different handle design, etc.) had an immediately noticable difference: the tip of the second knife was about twice as wide (when viewed from the top) as the tip on the first knife. Both were clip-point designs, but the difference in tip width (and sharpness) was significant - perhaps 1/8 an inch vs. 1/16 an inch and very noticable even to the casual observer who would happen to place the blades side by side. Also, the second knife with the thicker blade tip was much tighter to open and close.

I didn't think much of it - I figured they had just redesigned their blades with a slightly more robust tip. That was until I bought a third one (for myself again). This third one, the same model year as the second, once again had the thnner blade tip, just like my first knife.

So, I sent an e-mail to Cold Steel customer service. A few days later I got a reply back from Lynne Thompson himself. he told me: "The variation you describe is normal from knife to knife and nothing to be concerned about".

So - although Buck may indeed have some quality control issues, when compared to other companies which can't even be bothered to grind their blades similarly from knife to knife, I would say they are not so bad.

 

[DWB]

I will talk with the guy in charge of the 110 line this week to address the issues. In the meantime, If you are not happy with your current 110, you can send it in. If it is not completely used and abused, I can sort through what we have and find one with better inlays. I can also address the rivet issue and make sure we send the knife back to you squeaky clean. I'll even cover your shipping and if you send it to my attention, I'll turn it around in a week.
.

And this is why Buck has so many loyal customers (dare I say fans )

Their customer focus and desire to do right by the customer is virtually unequaled :thumbup:

Just read my previous post about Cold Steel...

 

[Pack Rat]

Oh lordy,,,,where is that post where I laid all those fixed blades out and posted the length of each....

aza,,,just a late chime in here.... I too questioned the differences in grain on the knife scales once when the wife was picking out a handfull of 2002 110 clampacks. She quickly told me that no two grains of wood are the same, unless it is manmade.
The snowflake thing I guess... She does some painting.

And, since she was picking out a HANDFULL of 110's, I sure wasn't going to argue.

 

[Evil Eye Earl]

Oh lordy,,,,where is that post where I laid all those fixed blades out and posted the length of each....

aza,,,just a late chime in here.... I too questioned the differences in grain on the knife scales once when the wife was picking out a handfull of 2002 110 clampacks. She quickly told me that no two grains of wood are the same, unless it is manmade.
The snowflake thing I guess... She does some painting.

And, since she was picking out a HANDFULL of 110's, I sure wasn't going to argue.

And the wife is correct.

I would like to know how Buck cuts the left and right patterns out for
the scales.
Something as small as knife scales would be very difficult to even come close with matching left and right sides,even slicing the same slab of, wood
grain can vary quite a bit.

 

[aza77]

Pack Rat and Evil eye Earl...you guys are absolutely right. Each piece of wood is unique and not exactly the same.

However within this variance, if two pieces of wood are chosen that are close by to each other...you will have a certain consistency in the grain pattern (whether close together, far apart, straight or curved lines, etc. etc.) even in very richly grained wood. I would go so far as to say that the scales should be manufactured and matched from the get go in pairs...rather than matched up after they have all been created and in a big parts bin.

The second option is try to use a different process in staining the wood which maybe makes it look a little more uniform. I've noticed that this particular wood on the 110 has a very dark almost black grain matched with a more brownish lighter grain. This REALLY draws attention to mismatched scales since the contrast is so high. Maybe a more uniform stain color will diminish this effect.

The last option and in my opinion the best...is to change the basic 110 scales completely to a nicer and more uniform wood. There are many many woods out there that are very consistent in grain structure but still have that individual wood grain feel...it would probably make the 110 look so much more attractive. For example...on the custom buck knife, they list cherry wood as a free option. That wood may have a more consistent look (haven't seen one in person yet so just speculation) and if it was to be put on the basic 110, there might not be any need at all to match the scales.

Think of it like a leather wallet. The cheapest leather wallets from china are very poorly matched (high grain, no grain, wrinkled, etc.). Some high end wallets however have distinct pieces that are all taken from the same hide to ensure that even though they are unique in their markings, they match with each other.

I personally think the current scales are not very attractive...there are some samples that look nice but overall, I think they are not a very attractive wood. I think they sort of make the 110 feel a little old on the shelf...and when I mean old...I mean not in a good way like the brass or blade or overall shape of the knife.

I'm sure that last sentence will be met with a lot of hostility from die hard 110 fans...but stop for a second and think about your next sentence. "Well if you want some really nice scales, buy the custom knife from the custom shoppe."

My next question then will be, if the custom knife scales are so much better, why not put one of those better looking woods (that don't cost more) on the basic 110 to make it pop off the shelf a little more for the average consumer who may never even know a custom shoppe exists?

You may even see sales go up for the knife. You know everyone of the 110 fans will obviously buy one...even if they already have the basic 110 so that is good...and you know that it won't DETER anyone new from buying them and it just might ATTRACT more people because it looks "purdy" and "expensiver". If you can do all that for the same price as the old one...then hmmm....And hey, if it doesn't work, go back to the old ones the next year.

Heck JOE HOUSER, while we're on the topic, why not give NEW scales to every new model year of the 110?! I don't think you'll lose any sales on the knife and you just might hook the 110 collectors into buying a new one every year to keep their collection current. People will feel like they are getting a custom individual knife, because it won't be around forever. Is this something that is possible?

It works for Hasbro...they make like seventy thousand different versions of Darth Vader every year and people just keep buying em and buying em and buying em. Hell, maybe call them up and see if they'll do a Darth Vader with a Buck 110 instead of a light saber. THAT would be cool.

 

[Joe Houser]

Thanks for the comments Aza, I will make sure my boss sees this thread around raise time!
The 110 has pretty much defied the "normal" lifespan of a new product for a manufacturing company. There is a bell curve graph that represents this lifespan that I saw in a business class once. From the start the 110 quickly became Buck's best seller and it continues to outsell all the rest of our knives today. Thats not suppose to happen.
Remember when Coke changed their rescipe and all the issues that caused? I may be wrong but if my memory is correct, they ended up bringing back "Classic Coke". Now maybe this blunder actually resulted in more sales, maybe they blundered on purpose I dont know. My point is, We are carefull about trying to fix something that isn't broken. (defect issues aside).
Having said that, I really really like your ideas! I'm not in the department that in touch with our retailers though so I cant actually make those kinds of decisions but I can certainly pass the comment on to the right people.
Personally I like the older "Golden grain macassar Ebony" as our catalogues called it, but I am a sentimental person. My favorites within the 110's with Ebony are the ones with very unique inlays. I like them because they are not run of the mill, they stand out, they pop. But thats just my opinion.
That clam pack issue is a big one to me, and a tricky one. Often times the retailer dictates to us how they are to be packaged. I will talk to the guy in charge.
Ramble mode off...:yawn:

 

[Rocinante]

Could the macassar ebony be offered on a limited number of knives that would sell for a higher price?

I suppose it must be unavailable or the custom shop would offer it as one of their options.

The "Clam Pack" is not an issue with me because I would never buy anything in a clam pack.......I hate plastic and I want my stuff in an old-fashioned box.

Besides being a little more classy, a knife in a box allows you to drive the salesperson a little crazy by asking to see ten or so before you find the one you want to buy.

 

[kyhunt]

With all the talks about the 110's. I might have to use my wife's camera and try to put a photo on here of the stag handled ones. (if I can figure it out)

 

[aza77]

Joe,

Thanks so much for the replies. I think it's a pretty great policy on your part to engage your buying public as much as you do. I was not and am still not very satisfied with the 110's that I got, but since coming to this forum and also speaking with you, I have gotten a 119, and a couple diamondback 471's.

I must say that I am extremely pleased with the quality and condition of these knives. I was a bit dissapointed by the 471 being made in Taiwan as I thought it would be made in the U.S.A....but it is an exceptional knife to my lesser trained eyes.

There is definately something going on in the packaging and manufacture of the 110's and since it is your number one seller...I think some slight modifications in how you build and present the item could really increase your sales to new customers.

As a film maker and advertising guy, I'd also say that there also might be a way to leverage the 110's history a bit better. From a guy who is slightly less initiated into these products, the Buck 110 sort of looked like one of the pack (meaning it didn't stick out in design, packaging and historical description) from all the other knives on the shelf.

Imagine if you guys maybe made some (very slight) modifications in materials for the scales and made sure the item was pristine and gleaming. Now that would be a huge step in the right direction.

The next step would be in the packaging...Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think your current yellow backed clamshell package sort of screams down market... In more detail, I mean that it makes your classic model 110 feel like it is a walmart chinese special that you could find in the cheapy section of any old hardware store or dusty kmart shelf. It is packaged more like a tool than a jewel. And honestly, the knife should feel like an instant heirloom...even before you open the package.

Please take a look at the way the new ipod nano is packaged. It is in a crystal clear hard plastic case which suspends the ipod and does not distort the image like a traditional clamshell. In fact, it is displayed like a piece of art or a piece of jewelry. This in turn, makes the item "feel" more expensive. Imagine if you had a larger case like this for the 110...on one side, you have the knife displayed, and on the other, you have the leather case. In the middle, you can still have your yellow colored cardboard backing...Now in turn, imagine all the Buck collectors out there that would eat this up...They would buy a ready for display collectors box that could be opened and then repackaged just as easily for display...if they desired. It may add what, like a buck to the cost? Maybe less maybe more. But it would work to make the knife Jump off the shelves. Imaging seeing all of the other clamshell packs and then the 110 hard plastic case hanging on the shelves with a yellow background. I think your knife would get first read for sure.

Now the next step is the description on the knife packaging itself. It's my honest opinion that you guys can sell your history a bit better to "new" customers. The ONLY reason that I know about this knife is because of this forum. I had NO IDEA of the years and history and significance of this knife from the packaging or from word of mouth. I really think you could talk a bit more about this knife, it's history and it's connection to America and the Buck company itself. Otherwise, the average housewife, new buyer or kid would not know why this knife is better than the rest.

I would say, use it's simplicity and old time feeling as an angle but package the item so as to give it the worth it deserves and get it into the hands of the next generation.

 

[wh4f]

I am really starting to wonder if this thread was "really" about a Buck 110 in a clam pack having some minor cosmetic issues, or if it is a resume for someone to "pitch" their ideas to the masses...

These links posted in here have nothing to do with buck knives...
And I don't have an Ipod. I believe what you may be looking for is right here?
http://www.buckknives.com/unsolicited.php
(Please read this link.)


I see advertisements for Buck Knives every month in my outdoor magazines. I am not trying to be rude here either but these last posts here are gettin' over the top (so please dont take it as being rude ) Just my .02 thats all!

 

[kyhunt]

I hope Buck doesn't listen to that guy and change the 110. I mean I like the differant handles you can get it in and the upgrade scale. But why change a classic that works so well. I have 3 110's. Why?? Because they work and the are dependable. Plus any user knife is going to get them pretty bolsters scratched up. Those are just beauty marks.

 

[aza77]

Hey guys, sorry if I had somehow done something wrong or anything or even offended you. If the last post is off topic, please go ahead and delete it. It's just my personality to be enthusiastic about ideas. The post was definately about the 110 and if it drifted off course, that's probably my fault and I would understand if the moderator wants to delete it.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Sounds pretty nit-picky to me. Find a dealer who has some in stock so you can pick one out or go to the Buck Custom Shop and order what you want. The 110 IMHO is a classic and I am amazed they can produce such a high quality blade at the price.

 

[Buck_110]

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