How brittle is D2?

[tarmix101]

Let me illustrate a little about the strop.

D2 is a better steel with, as Tom and others have already pointed out, an aggressive micro serration type edge. Now, what is a micro serration? Well, it looks about like this top pic right here of a course edge from a typical Arksansas stone by itself.

What happens after stropping is the bottom picture and that may be just great for a 1095 blade or a 13C26 blade but for D2 you'll find it performs much better with that aggressive serration pattern above and thats where I leave mine.

Now again, I don't know enough about the science and all that mumbo jumbo but I don't think a lot of folks really care about much more than what works. I've tried D2 both ways and to me its a no brainer. Correct me if I'm wrong though Tom but to me you obviously get a lot better performance out of your D2 edge by leaving it courser. I think also that a lot of people like that about it because they don't go to the steps I do and don't need to to sharpen it. But hey, I'm the overkill king. :thumbup:



What stropping does is make for a great push cutting edge but you'll often times see that when cutting rags or even tomatos and other things like that that it may indeed be a hair popping sharp edge but does little in the way of slicing even a rag well which is where a good course D2 blade will leave it in the dust.

STR

STR that you for that great explanation. Seems I have been doing things a little backward with my d2 blades.

The cool thing is it's Friday night, and I will have plenty of time to play with my Queen and re-profile the edge.

Edited to add, this has turned out to be a great thread for those if us that are "steel challenged".

 

[Tom Krein]

Wow, a lot of input here. Just to clarify, for my convex edges, I use a belt sander with a leather belt loaded with the Green Valley green compound. All I am really trying to do is remove the wire edge at this point. One, maybe two quick passes each side and I am good. So I don't think it sounds like that is so much stropping that it will be detrimental to a D2 edge. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is pretty much exactly what I do. I sharpen on a "dull" (relatively) 120 grit ceramic belt and then use a 600 grit compound on a wheel to remove the wire edge.

This provides what I call a "toothy polished edge" and cuts like you wouldn't believe!

Tom

 

[Grappler1911]

I just recieved a custom D2 6 inch fighter in the mail today.
I haven't tested it and sure am not an expert on steels.
I can say with first hand experence now that D2 can take a scary sharp edge.
This thing is hungry.

 

[OldPhysics]

Sheesh.

Now I have to get a knife in D2. I suppose I could do the new Millie, before supplies run out...or there's always Bob Dozier!

 

[Gerald McDonald]

You gotta be kidding. Cliff is one of the few willing and able to speak honestly regardless of the prevailing winds blowing around here. Without the likes of him around, bladeforums is reduced to the credibility of a sci-fi convention, all vendors and their fans.

No sweat, now he has more time to be "in the field and moving at high speed"

 

[Broos]

Sheesh.

Now I have to get a knife in D2. I suppose I could do the new Millie, before supplies run out...or there's always Bob Dozier!

And check out Krein, too. I really like mine!

 

[MVF]

Would the sharpening tips here for D2 also be the way to go on S30V? Are these similar steels or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[STR]

Would the sharpening tips here for D2 also be the way to go on S30V? Are these similar steels or am I misunderstanding something?

D2 and S30V have some large carbides in common but as far as I can tell they cut side by side with each other fairly equal. Its a tough call there but I do know that I have personally seen a lot more edge chipping on S30V than D2. Both can do this though.

I sharpen my S30V a bit different. I go ahead and knock out the bevel to a fresh start at 15` per side on the Edge Pro with the 120 grit, move to the 220 grit after that and then check for a burr. In my experience this has not been problematic with most S30V and it will have a pretty nice working mans edge after the 220 grit EP stone. I run it a few times on the ceramic after that and call it done.

Speaking of sharpeners for your knives, not to drift too far off topic though. For years I avoided the sharpening systems used by folks for hand sharpening because I felt I never needed them. When I'm in the shop and have my belts I'll use those but since my shop is a hike from the house I liked the idea of sharpening systems in the house too. I've had various systems now for the house. I still have the Lansky, but I rarely use it. I have the Sharpmaker and I use it on serrated and occasionally when I'm pressed for time on other knives that I normally use something else.

Personally I really like the Edge Pro. Ironically I bought it last and put it off and put it off due to the cost. Its worth every penny. Its the best I've used personally and I recommend it even for the seasoned pro sharpener who does his on a bench stone and is great at it. I did it that way for years and on a steel like S30V that has wear resistance akin to grinding on a rock by hand the EP knocks it out faster and more evenly than you will ever get by hand regardless of how good you are. Thats my opinion anyway. Bite the bullet and buy it.

The worst thing you can say about the Edge Pro is how it can and will scratch up blades if you don't do the tape thing. The other thing to make note of is what angle you used on each knife you carry. Some of my knives I don't want or think they can handle a 15` edge so use the 18` or one of the others and if you have a lot of knives you will want to notate these things for reference on future sharpenings to make it easier. The instructions say to tape the table. I tape the blade personally and have since getting it with no problems other than cleaning off the sticky which really isn't that hard to do.


STR

 

[OldPhysics]

And check out Krein, too. I really like mine!

Hi, Broos! Long time no see...

Haven't forgotten Mr. Krein, it's just been a looooooooonnggggg week working for the guv'mint. By the time I got Mr. Dozier's name off my fingertips, there was just no energy left.

 

[Jackdaw]

You gotta be kidding. Cliff is one of the few willing and able to speak honestly regardless of the prevailing winds blowing around here. Without the likes of him around, bladeforums is reduced to the credibility of a sci-fi convention, all vendors and their fans.

Yup, it's a great loss. Scientists and knifemakers around the world will be lighting candles and holding vigils tonight. :yawn:

 

[thombrogan]

it will have a pretty nice working mans edge after the 220 grit EP stone.

For the record, EdgePro's 220 grit finish is a lot finer than 220 grit on other stones, belts, or sandpapers. If the record's still playing, I've scratched up knives with each and every sharpening method I've used, so the occasional nasty scratch from an EdgePro 120 stone isn't a problem soley seen on such systems. Bonus hidden track for the same record is that I never got a D2 blade very sharp until I used the EdgePro Apex sharpening system. B-side track is that I prefer free-hand sharpening.

 

[STR]

For the record, EdgePro's 220 grit finish is a lot finer than 220 grit on other stones, belts, or sandpapers. If the record's still playing, I've scratched up knives with each and every sharpening method I've used, so the occasional nasty scratch from an EdgePro 120 stone isn't a problem soley seen on such systems. Bonus hidden track for the same record is that I never got a D2 blade very sharp until I used the EdgePro Apex sharpening system. B-side track is that I prefer free-hand sharpening.

I've noticed this also about the 220 which is partly why I skip using that one with the D2 sharpening. Idealy I would love to see EP and Razor Edge work something out to put the dry hones on the EP. Now that would be sweet sweet sweet! I don't know what the grit is on that Razor Edge fine because it feels like it should be finer still than the 220 grit Edge Pro but the edge it puts on the knife says otherwise but of course I am not using it as long or as hard as the 220 on the EP would do it since I'm only on it for a few swipes after the 120 and no more than that. As I said earlier I like a courser edge on my D2 because I think it makes it a better all around performer.

STR

 

[on_the_edge]

For the record, EdgePro's 220 grit finish is a lot finer than 220 grit on other stones, belts, or sandpapers.

Is the 220 grit stone the only EdgePro stone that has this issue? Are the grits on other EP stones more accurate? Sorry, I don't have enough sharpening stones to see for myself.

 

[thombrogan]

Is the 220 grit stone the only EdgePro stone that has this issue? Are the grits on other EP stones more accurate? Sorry, I don't have enough sharpening stones to see for myself.

220-800 are all like that. If you broke the stones to dust and measured the size of the abrasive particles, the 220-sized abrasives would match other 220-sized abrasives and the 320's and up would, too, but the way they're bound together in the stone (resin-bound?) leaves a finer finish than the grit size implies.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Well Tom will just have to put up with me.

Spark has a level of what he will put up with and No one who knew Mike Turber and his wild behavior will question how insulted Spark was entitled to feel. Turber started two forums and ruined four before he did all in the industry a favour by leaving knives behind.

Back to the thread. The only testing I know is use. I know that D2 is a very successful knife steel. The best know proponent of that steel is Bob Dozier. Becaue of Bob and his success with D2 Queen is now using it and many other companies have or are using it, all with some success.

thousands and thousands of knives working for their owners and very few complaints.
One man decides to bring it down and his science vs the experience of thousands of happy users, harms his reputation not the steels. Sad I think.

 

[STR]

Well said A.G. Bravo!

Just goes to show you that the defenders of CS just didn't catch the insult or didn't want to see it. It stood out to most of us though.

One thing about D2 that I would like to know from some of the makers besides Bob is their feelings on Cryo and D2. Do you use it? Surely it adds some toughness yes??? I'm just curious because I know Bob's feelings on it, however I don't know myself which side of the fence I'm on about it personally. Both sides make sense but..... and thats where I'll leave off.

STR

 

[Broos]

After reading you guys I think I'll try my razor edge stones with my EZE-Sharp for D2. Thanks!

For me the coarser "knifemakers" edge with all the grind marks at 90 degrees to the edge is a challenge to do - it's impossible (for me) to freehand it to look as nice, and I'm afraid to even try it with my HF sander. Probably ought to practice on some cheapies and give that a try, too. And though it took me a while to realize it, this is the edge for D2.

And thanks for your thoughts, AG.

 

[65535]

I have chipped D2 chopping semi dry wood, it was only about 2 inches diameter. The chips were small enough to be taken out using a Spyderco Fine Ceramic Whet Stone, so they definitely weren't large by any means.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Well said A.G. Bravo!

Just goes to show you that the defenders of CS just didn't catch the insult or didn't want to see it. It stood out to most of us though.

One thing about D2 that I would like to know from some of the makers besides Bob is their feelings on Cryo and D2. Do you use it? Surely it adds some toughness yes??? I'm just curious because I know Bob's feelings on it, however I don't know myself which side of the fence I'm on about it personally. Both sides make sense but..... and thats where I'll leave off.

STR

Well you had to know Turber. Most here never knew him. That is why they did not see the insult.

Well CSX seems to be saying that for cryo to do you any good you have to max out hardness and forego the draw. I would trust Bob on that because he does more testing than anyone except perhaps CS himself.) When Bob has a question he consults the working metalurgests at one of the steel companies. Bob himself has probably read more books on the subject than are required in a four year course, and understands them.

 

[gunmike1]

This is pretty much exactly what I do. I sharpen on a "dull" (relatively) 120 grit ceramic belt and then use a 600 grit compound on a wheel to remove the wire edge.

This provides what I call a "toothy polished edge" and cuts like you wouldn't believe!

Tom

Your edges are the most aggressive edges that can easily tree top hairs that I have ever tried. I have to go way finer to get the push cutting of your edges, then I lose the aggressiveness of your edges. You have your sharpening down to a fine science. Factory Spydercos have the best production edges I have tried (their CPM D2 was the sharpest out of the box production knife I have ever used), but your edges best the Spydercos I have gotten so far.

Mike