How brittle is D2?

STR said:
I like D2 a lot and use it a lot. I've said things about it that I don't want to come back to haunt the steel. Its not like there is much to worry about with it. A delicate point is a delicate point I think. I mean look at this pic in this link. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61490&d=1161465336

S30V got a bad rap for this as I recall. But in defense of the steel, would D2 fair any better in a delicate tip like this? I doubt it. What about 154CM or ATS34 or VG10 even if heat treat and all that was optimal or thought to be? Doubt it. A delicate tip is just that.
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Just to confirm this point, I've seen a Spyderco Ronin in VG10 suffer a similar break. I haven't been able to find the picture for it, but it wasn't as severe as the Yojimba.

I think I am going to buy something D2 soon thanks to this thread! I have a Cabela's Grip in D2 and it's one of my favorites, but thanks to this thread I see that I need something MORE! :)
 
Deadhead Archer said:
I have a Cabela's Grip in D2 and it's one of my favorites, but thanks to this thread I see that I need something MORE! :)
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A.G. Russell makes some priced-to-own hunting knives in D2; Ka-Bar and Ontario/RAT does, too; and there are a bunch of custom makers who'd be willing to help scratch that itch. And there are a ton from Benchmade and a large folder from Spyderco.

If none of that works; you can buy D2 from dozens of online suppliers and grind your own.
 
I saw the Military from Spyderco last night on Newgraham for like $118 in green G10 handles and D2. Thats a great price! I guess I expected to see it like close to the same as the $174 + price of the BG42 model.

STR
 
I don't own any D2, never really felt a need as my business gets done splendidly with other blades. I do think the Queen Mt. Man is a VERY nice looking knife though, and if I get some coin available may get one. To me it is more a situation of the right steel for the job, or better yet, the right blade, since thickness, and HT are HUGE factors. Heck, I LOVE 1095, and yet a 52-53Rc blade ain't best for a dedicated boning/skinning/slicing knife, and a 62Rc blade is not what I would want in a 1/8" thick machete. My "scientific" experience with this stuff is nil, but, I am an Arkansas boy who knows the name Dozier, and he has been doing what he does for a while, and if it didn't work, and work well, other things would be done. Now, back to the Queen, is it true that I will need to thin it out a bit, as I have heard they are a bit obtuse out of the box? And, does anyone know what hardness they run at?
 
Thom stated:

A very cultishly popular* chefs knife these days uses Hitachi's SKD-11 as its edge steel. SKD-11 is Hitachi's name for D2.
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This isn't the regular D2.This is sintered D2 that is known for smaller carbides. It's performance is reputed to be better than regular D2 in punches, and other such devices according to the literature.

I'll chime in as a D2 user. I have been using D2 for about at least 2 decades. I like it. I have others I like better for my different uses but it's a good steel, in about 8 of my knives here currently.No problems sharpening it now but I had to learn it's secret. I currently still have some bar stock left from my stock removal days when I could still do that. It's no rustier than the day I bought it.

However, give me vascowear anyday.:) I like it much better than D2. IMO, it performs better. D3/D5/D6/F8/SRS15, and DC53 I'd very much like to try. W2,Super Blue, and a few others such as M2 are also proven favorites for me ( non stainless) and I like them very much. Likewise A2, 52100, and 1095. Joe
 
thombrogan said:
A.G. Russell makes some priced-to-own hunting knives in D2; Ka-Bar and Ontario/RAT does, too; and there are a bunch of custom makers who'd be willing to help scratch that itch. And there are a ton from Benchmade and a large folder from Spyderco.

If none of that works; you can buy D2 from dozens of online suppliers and grind your own.
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Thanks Thom! I don't know, there is something about this post that makes my knife-purchase finger itch ;) :

michaelmcgo said:
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but Crucible Metals just ran a small run of CPMD2 which is powder made D2, in an attempt to reduce carbide size. Spyderco made something like 6000 Military's in CPMD2 (I have one!). CPM will not produce anymore CPMD2 due to the wear it causes their machines.
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I don't believe the run of millies is anywhere near 6,000. Typically 1200. The story about cruicible not liking CPM D2 is a rumor. I haven't heard anything official but believe there is some truth to it. When you look at the other monster steels they make why would D2 cause more damage or problems? These guys produce some really serious stuff. Perhaps they figure it's not worth the effort. I'd give that more credence now untill I heard something from one of the cruicible employees that post here. Joe
 
Some folks here have alluded to difficulty in sharpening D2. Not having much experience with sharpening D2, does anybody know whether D2 responds better to sharpening with something like the Edge Pro or is a convex edge easier to acquire? I am not talking about which performs better--flat versus convex--but rather which is easier to put on D2. Does it make a difference?
 
The Mastiff said:
This isn't the regular D2.This is sintered D2 that is known for smaller carbides. It's performance is reputed to be better than regular D2 in punches, and other such devices according to the literature.
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The SKD-11 has smaller carbides? Does or doesn't, it works great as a chefs knife steel.

DeadheadArcher,

The CPM-D2 Millie sure sounds great! My pal, Gunmike1, tested one recently and was impressed with its performance.

on_the_edge,

If you convex with a belt-sander, it'll be quicker. If you're not good at free-hand sharpening, the EdgePro will do a better job.; if you are good at free-hand sharpening, the EdgePro will be as good as your better sharpenings only it will be more consistant.
 
I believe the difficulty in sharpening is due more to the type of hone your using more so than the type of edge you want. I have put both a flat edge and a convex edge on d2 and neither was a problem. I use Diamond hones and Japanese style wet stones.
 
I have talked with Crucible extensively about CPM D-2 and as it stands now this is the only run of CPM D-2 they think they are going to do. That may change, just relating what I was told.

There is no perfect steel.... sorry, there just isn't. Some are better than others and some meet our different needs better than others. All steels have trade offs.... or Pro's and Con's. You have to look at what you expect a knife to be able to do and then match the steel, heat treat (RC level) and geometry to those needs or imagined needs.

I think D-2 excells as a smaller EDC/hunting knife. I will explain this and try to show you why.

I guess my idea of an EDC (everyday carry) knife would need to be explained in order to understand why I think D-2 works so well in this role.

I use my EDC knives to open packages, breakdown boxes, cut string, cut fiberglass reinforced tape (in my opinion one of the quickest and easiest ways to dull a knife, if you don't believe me cut a bit of it!!), dig out slivers of steel, and food prep. I also like a fairly low maintenance (read stainless or close) blade. In my mind D-2 with its "toothy" high wear resistant edge excells at this chores.

I do not cut a lot of wood or harder materials with my EDC blades. D-2 will do this, but is not optimal due to the large carbides. A "smoother" edge works better for wood related cutting in my opinion.

What do I expect of my hunting knives is also important, as would be what I don't expect them to do....

I am looking for my hunting knives to simply field dress an animal after it is down. I am talking about cutting meat and hide. While in skilled hands one of my knives can cut up through the ribs and down through the pelvis, I don't recommend it. Just a slight amount of lateral pressure and pop chips out of the thin edge. There are so many good and cheap folding bone saws on the market I can't think of a good reason to risk your knife.

Why do I like D-2 for a hunting knife? Several reasons.

First, the "micro serrated" edge is at its best in flesh!

Second, the high wear resistance is very nice as there is no need to sharpen while in the field. I have many customers who are pleasantly surprised on their first season of using a D-2 knife. They simply can't believe that they can field dress so many deer and still have a knife that cuts like crazy and has not slowed down!!!

Third, the increased corrosion resistance makes care in the field very simple. Simply wipe it down after you are done and clean it at home with hot soapy water.



Each and every steel has pro's and con's. By evaluating your needs and then looking at the strengths and weakness of different steels you can choose the blade steel that best suits you! THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER AS THIS IS A VERY PERSONAL CHOICE! Your choice might not be right for me or STR, or who ever as we may see your needs differently or place stress on different strength/weakness.

The good thing about questions like is D-2 brittle and the treads that follow are that we can learn about the steels and then make INFORMED decisions for ourselves. No one can make the decision for you, but we can explain why we like the steels based on our needs/experiences.

I hope this helps you see why I like D-2 so much and maybe help you to make a more informed decision.

Tom

BTW, I do not consider myself an expert on steel, but I have used a bunch and so have my customers. I enjoy getting feed back from my customers and am continuing to learn and experiment with D-2 and other steels based on my experiences and my customers. While I understand there is no perfect steel, I will continue to look for one!!:D
 
on_the_edge said:
Some folks here have alluded to difficulty in sharpening D2. Not having much experience with sharpening D2, does anybody know whether D2 responds better to sharpening with something like the Edge Pro or is a convex edge easier to acquire? I am not talking about which performs better--flat versus convex--but rather which is easier to put on D2. Does it make a difference?
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I've never convexed a D2 edge, but I've worked on them with the Edge Pro, free hand with diamonds and a Sharpmaker. I never found it to be that difficult, but what I do is the edge down -- for example a did a RAT-3 at about 12-13 degrees per side on the Edge Pro, and then use the Sharpmaker to establish a micro bevel. When you use a micro bevel, you're not really taking off much metal when you touch the blade up, so the fact that its D2, S30V doesn't keep it from being quick and easy (hey, I knew a girl like that ;)).
 
db said:
I believe the difficulty in sharpening is due more to the type of hone your using more so than the type of edge you want. I have put both a flat edge and a convex edge on d2 and neither was a problem. I use Diamond hones and Japanese style wet stones.
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Similar with me, I use D2 from Queen and two custom makers, and the only thing I ever use is a DMT fine stone and ceramic sticks.

D2 can be tough if someone lets it get to dull before touching it up, but if you take minimal steps to maintain the edge from the start, it's not that difficult.
 
on_the_edge said:
does anybody know whether D2 responds better to sharpening with something like the Edge Pro or is a convex edge easier to acquire? I am not talking about which performs better--flat versus convex--but rather which is easier to put on D2. Does it make a difference?
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That is what I have done. My Queen Country Cousin in D2 has a convexed secondary edge bevel. It took quite some time with a mouse pad and sandpaper, but now that I have it convexed, it seems a few quick strops on a charged leather strop does the trick about once a week give or take.

I'm not saying that it's any better than a sharpmaker, or oil stones, but it works for me.

I convex a secondary edge bevel on most of my knives, so it's really a question of what comfortable to me.
 
I use the Edge Pro 120 grit stone to get my bevel nice and straight. Then I take it off there and don't go back to it. After that I move to the bench stone I have that is the Razor Edge dry hone 6" fine they sell. I like it better than the 220 grit by Edge Pro on my D2. I give the edge a few lighter strokes on that Razor Edge stone and get it nice to where I like it and then run a few strops hard on a cardboard back of a legal pad, then strop on my flex cut leather, and very light swipes at the end on the 1200 grit Edge Pro ceramic.

Its just right after that for me. :D

STR
 
STR said:
I use the Edge Pro 120 grit stone to get my bevel nice and straight. Then I take it off there and don't go back to it. After that I move to the bench stone I have that is the Razor Edge dry hone 6" fine they sell. I like it better than the 220 grit by Edge Pro on my D2. I give the edge a few lighter strokes on that Razor Edge stone and get it nice to where I like it and then run a few strops hard on a cardboard back of a legal pad, then strop on my flex cut leather, and very light swipes at the end on the 1200 grit Edge Pro ceramic.

Its just right after that for me. :D

STR
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Wow.... that sounds like a dissertation in geometry, and material science;):D:thumbup:

What is "flex cut leather" I use an old belt:o that has been charged at one end, and left bare at the other. I have been eying some professional leather strops, but I'm not a expert and was wondering it is really worth it?

As mentioned, all most of my blades have a convexed secondary edge bevel, and my D2 blades seem to respond really well to the charges leather strop.
 
I don't make a habit of stropping a lot of D2. I do that mostly on my 1095 and other wood carving blades that are ones like the Japanese white and blue steel among other carbon blades that take a great push cutting highly polished edge. Now I do tend to strop a good bit on stainless like 12C27, and 13C26 that is small carbide edge stable razor type steel. This steel responds well to stropping.

On my wood carving knives the best stuff I've ever used is Flex Cuts Gold Polish compound. I use this on my buffing and leather wheels in the shop on my bench sharpener also. You can buy these in a little block. You use it on your leather like a crayon. One block lasts a long time too so its nice that way also.

I like a courser edge on my D2 so stropping continually will just polish and polish and polish to where you actually take away from D2 I think and get away from what it really can do for you. But with initial sharpening I have just found that a few right after the stones sets the edge up nice for any remaining fragments that hopefully get knocked off on the final swipes on the ceramic. Without using a scope to see exactly what is happening here I can only say its worked for me.

STR
 
Let me illustrate a little about the strop.

D2 is a better steel with, as Tom and others have already pointed out, an aggressive micro serration type edge. Now, what is a micro serration? Well, it looks about like this top pic right here of a course edge from a typical Arksansas stone by itself.

What happens after stropping is the bottom picture and that may be just great for a 1095 blade or a 13C26 blade but for D2 you'll find it performs much better with that aggressive serration pattern above and thats where I leave mine.

Now again, I don't know enough about the science and all that mumbo jumbo but I don't think a lot of folks really care about much more than what works. I've tried D2 both ways and to me its a no brainer. Correct me if I'm wrong though Tom but to me you obviously get a lot better performance out of your D2 edge by leaving it courser. I think also that a lot of people like that about it because they don't go to the steps I do and don't need to to sharpen it. But hey, I'm the overkill king. :thumbup:

What stropping does is make for a great push cutting edge but you'll often times see that when cutting rags or even tomatos and other things like that that it may indeed be a hair popping sharp edge but does little in the way of slicing even a rag well which is where a good course D2 blade will leave it in the dust.

STR
 
Wow, a lot of input here. Just to clarify, for my convex edges, I use a belt sander with a leather belt loaded with the Green Valley green compound. All I am really trying to do is remove the wire edge at this point. One, maybe two quick passes each side and I am good. So I don't think it sounds like that is so much stropping that it will be detrimental to a D2 edge. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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