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How do I get H1 to Rust?
- Thread starter frank k
- Start date
Sal Glesser
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- 11,715
Hi Frank.
Interesting experiment. I'm curious myself.
While we've had no compaints from customers, in our own testing, we found that if you scrape the coating off of the clip, prolonged use will eventually lightly corrode the stainless clip. Our solution was to change the clip to titanium.
You probably have one of the pieces with the stainless clip. The new ones are just in process. Would you be so kind as to scratch a line in the clip. Just for curiosity sake.
sal
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The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!
Interesting experiment. I'm curious myself.
While we've had no compaints from customers, in our own testing, we found that if you scrape the coating off of the clip, prolonged use will eventually lightly corrode the stainless clip. Our solution was to change the clip to titanium.
You probably have one of the pieces with the stainless clip. The new ones are just in process. Would you be so kind as to scratch a line in the clip. Just for curiosity sake.
sal
-----------------------------------------------
The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!
Sal,
There where a couple of light scratches and a few spots along the edges where the black coating had worn. I have been watching the clip for signs of rust: so far none yet. I did scratch off a larger area of the coating and put it back in the water to see what happens. Im not sure that it was bare steel underneath the black coating though (maybe its galvanized?). The clip definitely is steel and not titanium (I checked it with a magnet to be sure).
- Frank
There where a couple of light scratches and a few spots along the edges where the black coating had worn. I have been watching the clip for signs of rust: so far none yet. I did scratch off a larger area of the coating and put it back in the water to see what happens. Im not sure that it was bare steel underneath the black coating though (maybe its galvanized?). The clip definitely is steel and not titanium (I checked it with a magnet to be sure).
- Frank
GB,
Sal posted some information about the hardness here -
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342339&page=2&pp=20
Steel will generally rust in salt water, but it will tend to rust faster if it exposed to air also; thats why I only filled the jar enough that half the knife is out of the water so that it is exposed to air. Once a day (or every other day when I forget) I give the jar a shake so that the exposed part gets a new dunking in the seawater. Every few days I have been taking the Salt out and checking it for signs of rust. When I put it back in, I flip it around so that the half that was above the water is under water.
Now that I have wrapped the Spyderhole with the copper wire, I will be leaving that end in the water to see if any rusting is brought on by galvanic action. I also took the clip off when I scratched it so that I can keep it underwater for the same reason.
- Frank
Sal posted some information about the hardness here -
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342339&page=2&pp=20
Steel will generally rust in salt water, but it will tend to rust faster if it exposed to air also; thats why I only filled the jar enough that half the knife is out of the water so that it is exposed to air. Once a day (or every other day when I forget) I give the jar a shake so that the exposed part gets a new dunking in the seawater. Every few days I have been taking the Salt out and checking it for signs of rust. When I put it back in, I flip it around so that the half that was above the water is under water.
Now that I have wrapped the Spyderhole with the copper wire, I will be leaving that end in the water to see if any rusting is brought on by galvanic action. I also took the clip off when I scratched it so that I can keep it underwater for the same reason.
- Frank
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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- 11,715
H1 passed our "Q-Fog" salt water spray test with no effect.
sal
sal
Fisher of Men
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This is just too funny 
I sure am interested in seeing what happens.
David
I sure am interested in seeing what happens.
David
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
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I just ordered a Spyderco Pacific Salt to use in the pool and the beach. Based up these tests, it was a good purchase.
Hi, Klattman, the link frank posted already is where I got the Rc numbers from. I thought it made a lot of sense. Since CATRA is as far as I know strongly emphasising abrasion resistance, it could very well be that H-1 will show a lot higher edge retension in ED use than those test would indicate, because of its high hardness at the edge (in the light use that I put my knifes through I find that the edges tend to rather roll than dull).
I am definitely up for a Pacific Salt in PE, will be on my next order. I had the Pacific from the passaround (thanks frank and Spyderco!) but like frank I found it hard for me to judge edge retention on a SE blade. The more I read about this H-1 the more I am intrigued. I am also really impressed with the way Spyderco is approaching the Salt line. I will admit that suspicious as I am, I would have expected that they would simply put an H-1 blade in a Endura/Delica handle and the first things that would go, would be especially pivot and lockbar since that is were water gets trapped. I asked that question on the Spyderco forum quite a while ago and Sal was kind enough to answer. I was very impressed to learn that the lockbar is H-1 aswell, and apparently differently rolled in order to achieve lower hardness, and that all other parts (screws, pivot, lockbar pin etc.) are treated such that the entire knife is essentially corrosion proof.
IMO there is a lot more to these Salt knifes than their price suggests. Not to give Spyderco any ideas, but I am quite surprised that they manage to keep the price of the Salt knifes in a similar range as the Endura and Delica. Sal's remark about a Ti clip emphasises my point here. Sal, one question: why not H-1 for the clip?
Oh, a second question: Have you ever been screened for OCTD (obsessive compulsive testing disorder)? Maybe frank should make an appointment aswell!!!
I am definitely up for a Pacific Salt in PE, will be on my next order. I had the Pacific from the passaround (thanks frank and Spyderco!) but like frank I found it hard for me to judge edge retention on a SE blade. The more I read about this H-1 the more I am intrigued. I am also really impressed with the way Spyderco is approaching the Salt line. I will admit that suspicious as I am, I would have expected that they would simply put an H-1 blade in a Endura/Delica handle and the first things that would go, would be especially pivot and lockbar since that is were water gets trapped. I asked that question on the Spyderco forum quite a while ago and Sal was kind enough to answer. I was very impressed to learn that the lockbar is H-1 aswell, and apparently differently rolled in order to achieve lower hardness, and that all other parts (screws, pivot, lockbar pin etc.) are treated such that the entire knife is essentially corrosion proof.
IMO there is a lot more to these Salt knifes than their price suggests. Not to give Spyderco any ideas, but I am quite surprised that they manage to keep the price of the Salt knifes in a similar range as the Endura and Delica. Sal's remark about a Ti clip emphasises my point here. Sal, one question: why not H-1 for the clip?
Oh, a second question: Have you ever been screened for OCTD (obsessive compulsive testing disorder)? Maybe frank should make an appointment aswell
!!!
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spyder8 said:im not sure but mayb draino
Dude, ok two things wrong with that statement. First, he just said battery acid. ACID! Drano, in case you didn't know is a very basic solvent, not acidic, just like every other household cleaner. Secondly, would you put drano down your pipes if you thought it could rust a knife? DUH
Sal Glesser
Moderator
- Joined
- Dec 27, 1998
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- 11,715
HoB said:IMO there is a lot more to these Salt knifes than their price suggests. Not to give Spyderco any ideas, but I am quite surprised that they manage to keep the price of the Salt knifes in a similar range as the Endura and Delica. Sal's remark about a Ti clip emphasises my point here. Sal, one question: why not H-1 for the clip?
Oh, a second question: Have you ever been screened for OCTD (obsessive compulsive testing disorder)? Maybe frank should make an appointment aswell
Hi HoB, making the clip out of H-1 would require another rolling, and I think Ti has more spring.
Regarding pricing, we always try to be fair. IMO, "Charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you".
As far as screening for OCTD goes, I think the behavior speaks for itself.
sal
SAL,
would it be possible to upgrade older Salts by, say, ordering a titanium clip? Well, it would be complicate to get here, anyhow. Even if I order a new Salt how do I know it were titanium clip?
But, the idea to make a titanium clip is fantastic. I like when you use something because it is functional - not titanium because it is beautiful, but because you need a rustfree clip.
What about pins? Are they made from H-1 too?
Franco
P. S. I checked my Salt in Adriatic sea last summer. No rust!
would it be possible to upgrade older Salts by, say, ordering a titanium clip? Well, it would be complicate to get here, anyhow. Even if I order a new Salt how do I know it were titanium clip?
But, the idea to make a titanium clip is fantastic. I like when you use something because it is functional - not titanium because it is beautiful, but because you need a rustfree clip.
What about pins? Are they made from H-1 too?
Franco
P. S. I checked my Salt in Adriatic sea last summer. No rust!
frank k said:
Dunk it in your sea water and store it in a moist place (don't leave it immersed in the jar). Add ,ore salty water if you feel like it. That shudl cause more visible rust than what you did before.
If you really want to destroy the knife with "non-harmful" (but *NOT* edible stuff) use some HCL (if i'm not mistaken your Radio Shack stores sell it, or ferric chlorie as a toned-down equivalent).It should pit the steel on surface which should make it considerably easier to rust. Ditto for sandblasting, the more pits the sonner it will rust - and likewise, the smoother and more polished the surface the later it will rust.
HoB and others - in some limited rope cutting tests I did with the Pacific Salt Vs Kabar Dozier (AUS8) if found that the Salt kept up with Kabar fairly well but could not beet the Kabar. What I did find was that the more aggressive edge I put on both knives the closer the Salt got to the Kabar. So I would have to put it's edge holding at somewhere between AUS6 and AUS8. But it was different in the whittling stakes as the Salt faired better than the Kabar but I am unsure whether or not the edge geometry may have had something to do with this. Whilst the Kabar has always performed well at whittling the Salt just seemed that much better.
By the way that arch enemy of blade steels, tomatoes, didn't leave a mark on the H1 blade.
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Just pee on the blade. Especially after a good night out there has to be stacks of nasty chemicals in there bound to give the steel a work-out.....
Just don't do this with the pass-around and be sure to wash it good before you peel your apple
Greg
Just don't do this with the pass-around and be sure to wash it good before you peel your apple
Greg
Update: After 3 days in the seawater with the copper wire wrapped around the Spyderhole no signs of rust, either on the blade, the clip or any other part, except for a tiny bit of rust on the edges of the head of the pivot.
To see how aggressive the galvanic action effect is I put a Forschner/Victorinox kitchen knife in the water and after 21 hours there are several small rust spots on the edge and a few on the polished main blade surface. This blade will rust as much or more just dipping it in the water and leaving it laying flat to air dry.
I am convinced that the clip must have been galvanized or some such under the black coating since it has not rusted at all .if all of the stainless Steel Salt clips are this good, there is no need for the titanium ones!
- Frank
To see how aggressive the galvanic action effect is I put a Forschner/Victorinox kitchen knife in the water and after 21 hours there are several small rust spots on the edge and a few on the polished main blade surface. This blade will rust as much or more just dipping it in the water and leaving it laying flat to air dry.
I am convinced that the clip must have been galvanized or some such under the black coating since it has not rusted at all .if all of the stainless Steel Salt clips are this good, there is no need for the titanium ones!
- Frank