How do you get highly skilled makers to post here?

bladsmth said:
I will be posting a thread soon on some changes in moderation, but some may have already noticed that I have closed threads with no reason to exist, and sent suspicious threads to Tech Support. I will be more aggressive on curtailing unkind posts and trying to keep the threads on topic.

On a side note, Tonight I received several emails. One was another vulgar hushmail from someone who reads or frequents these forums. His comments don't bear repeating, but if he reads this, I want him to know that I pray he gets better.
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Sounds good. Posts moved offline can always be restored if the poster is willing to discuss the problem.

Before the vulgar hushmailer can get better, he needs to want to to get better.
 
bladsmth said:
I will be posting a thread soon on some changes in moderation, but some may have already noticed that I have closed threads with no reason to exist, and sent suspicious threads to Tech Support. I will be more aggressive on curtailing unkind posts and trying to keep the threads on topic.
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Thanks for all you do for us, Stacy! :)
 
I think the best thing to encourage skilled makers to post here would be basic good manners.
Ask politely and say thank you even if you don't agree with the answers you get. There have been a number of times when I got an answer that just didn't seem right until I thought about it more and actually implemented the advice I was given. If we looked at detailed information from experienced makers as a gift, it might change how we respond.
Just a matter of perspective.
 
Not to pile on but I know thru Phillip(Kentucky as you all know him) that we owe a great deal of our heat treating success to Kevin.I like giving credit where it is due. He is a big part of why our customers trust thier knives to keep cutting..
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Think about it, if you are like me when you are around friends on your same level in the business, you talk about cigars, scotch, music, movies, jokes, etc… but rarely do you talk about methods or technical aspects of knife making; it is boring and what is the point you already know what each other will say.
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I've was around bladeforums for a long time under a different name then quit for a while. I joined back only a couple of years ago and have been looking at it from a knifemaker's perspective for a very short period. It seems to me that Kevin's comment may be a major reason why experienced members don't post more. If an experienced maker has a question they'll probably go straight to a peer and ask rather than deal with Shop Talk. The only thing an experienced maker can gain from being active in Shop Talk is the joy of teaching. I can see how you'd quickly lose that joy from the shear number of threads asking basic questions that can be answered by the search function or google. So, I think the best approach to the original question in this thread is:

bladsmth said:
The suggestion I favor is basically what Esav is saying. Leave the current Shop talk alone. Increase moderation, and don't allow any negative posts. Lock threads that have no place to go.
Create a forum called "Knifemaking Techniques and Procedures"... an area for discussion of advanced techniques, HT, and materials.....post basic questions in Shop Talk.
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Increased moderation would help.
If someone starts a thread asking for basic information then simply reply with a link to the search function then lock the thread or prompt the original poster to ask a more specific question. Experienced makers don't want to waste time trying to help a newb if they have to poke and prod to figure out what the newb is really asking. Many questions could be redirected to the Maintenance, Tinkering, and Embellishment forum.

I don't know the best way to promote good manners, but that needs to be done too. Experienced makers got where they are for a reason and everyone needs to respect them (though respectful disagreement should always be allowed).

However, I wouldn't create a new "advanced" forum. IMO this site suffers from having too many subforums. If you make an advanced forum then I think two things will happen: there will be very little traffic in the advanced forum for the reason Kevin made and newbs will start posting basic questions in the advanced forum because they'll want the "experts" to chime in.
 
This has been a absolutely FANTASTIC thread! Very much looking forward to what 2013 brings
 
Well Nick thank you for this thread it is great and I have seen some change in ST already. As for getting more high end makers here you got me but I think we on the right track.
 
I like threads in which Nick, Kevin, and Don have all posted! In fact, seeing Kevin post here was worth the price of admission! I still prefer BF shoptalk over other similar web environs, as I have gotten so much out of my time here and I enjoy many of the people who post here. My gratitude to anyone who works toward the future health of Shoptalk.

I think the idea of a separate "advanced techniques" type forum is a likely one. Let's see where it goes.
 
I am simply posting to say thank you to all experienced contributors to this forum. Since finding this forum I have gained knowledge and my knifemaking skill has improved greatly. Thank you.
 
Someone mentioned Don Fogg's forum earlier..The reason Dons forum is so much different is that its so much smaller and the material is really geared toward one thing..The forged blade..Thus a smaller more personal forum..Great one though..Its also a good place to put things in perspective too..The super complex damascus, multi-bar swords,Katanas. Carved hilts,sheaths and wood those guys put out is humbling to say the least..
 
Ok, I know that I am VERY new here, at least as a registered member, but I wanted to suggest something. First let me also state that I haven't read every post in this thread so if this has already been suggested, my apologies.
I run a small but somewhat successful CrossFit Gym. We have paid coaches who are on a regular work schedule. We also have a few certified clients who do not get paid and are not on a schedule. However these clients do contribute to the overall success of our business. They help new clients to push themselves, help clean up, etc.. All without expecting anything in return other then the personal satisfaction of helping a person to reach their goals.

When I see a person willing to help others freely I give them their membership for free. I don't announce it to the other members and often don't even tell these clients that it has been given.

Would it not be a good idea to offer a similar deal to those members that have put in their time? Obviously I'm talking about those members who have many years of experience and talent and have made a name for themselves.

I just feel that those who fit this description are or would like to be full time makers, yet they take the time to answer questions over and over again.

I for one would be happy to see ALL members have to pay a fee in order to post. This would offset any advertising fees lost to the above makers.

Every time I come up with a question that I think hasn't been asked, I find it. Well almost.
Thanks.
 
Thanks again guys! I am very pleasantly surprised by how this thread has developed. :)

Many of you have done a great job articulating thoughts/feelings about this stuff that I had not done.

I have received a boat load of emails and private messages about this stuff--- many of them from friends that are either Mastersmiths or highly accomplished stock removal makers. The consensus is pretty consistent in them...

Here are a couple generalized summations taken from those messages (in my own words:foot:). *** I'm doing this to help explain why many of these guys either left, or don't post here... without actually quoting them directly.***

"I post an answer or try to give advice, based on years of experience. Then a popular forum guy with a couple knives under his belt (but with a high post count) comes along and totally trumps any advice I gave."

"There's a huge lack of respect. I don't need anyone to kiss my a$$, but it would be nice if there was enough respect and appreciation for me to feel like it's actually worth my time to TRY and help."




So, I think the simple answer to KEEPING those guys is-

1.) Don't be a jerk (IMHO, the easiest way to do this is to approach the dialogue in a thread the same way you would if you were standing in that maker's shop with him, or in front of his table at a show--- face to face.....

2.) If you read something here and learned from it--- just post a "Thank you." That is a tiny tiny thing to ask for, in exchange for a guy taking the time to share hard earned knowledge, IMHO.


How you get them back, or here perhaps simply get them here in the first place? I'm still not sure. :confused: I really appreciate so many of you guys trying to figure that out. :)


Thank you guys! :)
 
I've been a bit slow to respond to this thread because I wasn't sure I had anything to offer... but I decided there might be one thing I could add that would potentially help.

Much has been said (in many places) about how some folks drop in, post VERY common questions, and "never bother to do the research". Frankly, I think everyone is guilty of that to one extent or another. I know when I first joined I tried using the search function and didn't quite know how to navigate it properly because I didn't really have the vocabulary. Hard to search for a word you don't know. Moreover, even when you do know the word, if it appears in 1028 threads on the same subject it can be a daunting task to find the definitive and correct one.

Fundamentally, the problem is that forums are not an ideal "research tool". They are a collection of conversations.

So perhaps we should consider creating an adjunct to the forums. I'm thinking of something like a Wikipedia extension specifically for knife making. I understand the Wiki tools are available for use in special purpose databases, such as this, at no charge. Perhaps we could glean the validated and data-backed information from the forum, put it into a Wiki and thereby make it more directly searchable.

My hope is that the highly experienced makers would be the ones that vetted the content going into the Wiki, thereby giving them a means of making the sort of direct and valuable contribution they seem to be willing to make without having to directly participate in the conversations about the validity of their contributions. The validity would be established by its inclusion and longevity in the Wiki, not by how many trolls can post song lyrics in a thread over the course of time.

Moreover, the rules that pertain to forum participation would not pertain to the Wiki participation. Case in point, image posting in the Wiki would not have anything to do with their status in the Bladeforums.

Finally, if we choose to be really magnanimous, participation in the Wiki project might also enable the really talented makers to share their knowledge beyond the boundaries of BladeForums in a manner that would be acceptable to the other forums as well.

I recognize that all this somewhat sidesteps the question of how to leverage the great makers to make BladeForums (and only BladeForums) a better place, but my hope is that this suggestion would do just that and by extension make the whole field of knifemaking better informed. And if BladeForums gets the credit for initiating this project, so much the better for our reputation.

- Greg
 
MODERATED
Message sent.

Sorry guys... just tried to lighten things up... its a sickness:o
Rick
 
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A Wiki or even an old school "FAQ" is a great idea. There is a massive amount of info in "The Count's Standard Reply" and the stickies, but the organization is really hard for a new maker to know what to look for, or where to find it. I think that sentiment is what I've seen expressed most by new makers. The only problem is volunteers to make that happen, and I'd be glad to throw my name in the ring.
 
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I don't spend as much time on the internet anymore. When I do go on the forums, I read more then I post. Too many conflicts and flame wars not just on BF but forums in general. I concentrate most of my time in my own subforum. I've gotten alot of phone calls and emails regarding advice on knifemaking/heat treating and freely share what experience I do have.
Scott
 
Don,
Just as I said in the Shop Talk Changes thread, any totally off topic posts will be moderated. rick contacted me and I explained why. We are cool, and the point is to not make a public problem of a minor issue.
 
All the hostility about paying or not paying turned me off.

Maybe I don't understand the picture posting policy still, because I remember a PM from a mod telling me VERY clearly not to post any pics of anything I make, since I sell things.

No WIP, no here's how you do this little detail, heck there are grinders in my grinding room I sell, so I can't even post a pic of anything, etc...

Because even if a maker wasn't trying to sell, it was still a benefit to the maker. Free advertising, so to speak.

Let's use Cashen as an example here.
Guaranteed he has provided help more than 100 times for every one time he received it.

Yet he got reamed for posting a picture.

How dare he take advantage of this forum and and advertise his wares for free...

Really?
Wouldn't a more appropriate response be to thank him?
We want his help, but want him to pay for the right to provide it?

To me, this is akin to calling a neighbor and asking him to help you move.
When he says, sure, I can help, you then tell him he needs to stop by Uhaul, pick up a truck on his dime, and not forget to bring lunch when he shows up.

So, in a nutshell, I think it needs to be a friendlier place, from a management perspective if you want more skilled guys here.

Don't beat up the guys who are regularly answering questions.
 
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