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How does Zero Tolerance Compare to Hinderer........

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Jailhack, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Jailhack

    Jailhack

    890
    Feb 7, 1999
    Been carrying a small Sebenza for close to 20 years and recently got the itch for a larger knife. So I picked up a Large 21 Sebenza, which is everything I expected, but in a larger package. Great knife.

    Then, because I have an inquiring mind and had yet to own a flipper, I picked up a Zero Tolerance 0562 mainly to see the kind of quality ZT was putting out, but also to see how I liked the design and feel in hand of a Rick Hinderer knife. Kind of like a test subject, of sorts.

    So, good thing is that ZT builds a pretty solidly built knife, that has no play, locks up good, flipper deploys blade with speed and efficiency, is hair popping sharp right out of the box and it feels good in hand. So by all accounts, a nice buy for the money.

    Now, being that I tend to carry and use guns, watches and knives a "step above" the normal end user for no other reason but I like high quality, hand built things and am lucky enough to be able to afford them.

    So my question to the masses, especially if you have owned both, what kind of "step up" can I expect from a Hinderer XM18 (3.5") over the Zero Tolerance? More robust? Better action? Better ergonomics? And so on.

    Also, does Hinderer build his own mainstream knives or does he have apprentices churning them out, if anyone knows the answer. I would imagine he does the higher end true customs with his own hands, but am basing this discussion off his "standard" line.
     
    BigKurtHaze likes this.
  2. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi

    621
    May 25, 2017
    They both have very good execution, good ergonomics and action and make great knives. Sure the Hinderer opens a tad slower.... the blade is 2 to 4 times the mass of the ZT blade.

    My three Hinderers are way overbuilt far more robust and I'll probably buy another 3 within the next year. When I take a look at my Hinderers, the entire knife, the frame lock, everything about it tells you that it is a tank made for hard use.

    As far as "apprentices" working on knives, all knife manufacturers employ machinists, and to tell you the truth, either you know what you are doing or you do not in so far as being a machinist goes. These companies are producing some great knives.

    Own the following ZTs:
    - 0900 in S35VN
    - 0452 CF (Bought and gave to Bro for his birthday in 2017!) S35VN
    - 0609BLK S35VN
    - Zero Tolerance Factory Custom 0450FCZDP Flipper Knife Ti PVD
    - (TWO) Zero Tolerance 0095 Sprint Run with Titanium Handles and Tan Coated CMP S90V Steel Blade Model 0095TANBLK

    Own the following Hinderers:
    - XM-18, Fatty Harpoon Tanto, Gray G-10,
    - XM-24, Wharncliffe, Blade Length: 4"
    - Hinderer Maximus, Double Edge CPM 20CV, Black Hardware

    Buying the following ZTs within the year:
    - Zero Tolerance 0393 Rick Hinderer Flipper 3.5" CPM-20CV Two-Tone Blade, Blue Titanium Handles with Black G10 Overlays ($240 at Knife Center)
    - Zero Tolerance 0462 in 20CV, 3.75 inch blade, KVT Ball Bearings (LIST: $300)

    Buying the following Hinderers within the year:
    - Hinderer Fieldtac 7" - D2 Black DLC - Black G-10 - Black Sheath
    - Hinderer Gen 6, Full Track in 20CV w TriWay Pivot
    - Hinderer Gen 6, Half Track in 20CV w TriWay Pivot
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  3. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    410
    Apr 6, 2017
    Hinderers don't open slower because of a larger blade... The 3.5 XM-18 slicer grind is going to be shorter and narrower than the 0562, with the same blade stock thickness. They open slowly because the detents suck.
     
  4. SpySmasher

    SpySmasher Lead Guitar Platinum Member

    Sep 1, 2016
    Hinderer is not, for the most part, making fully handmade "bench knives" the way that Bob Loveless used the term. He is running a small machine shop with several workers. My impression from his Instagram is that he does get in there and work on knives but to what degree I can't tell.

    Having said that, even Loveless had apprentices.

    Still, Hinderer knives are what we call high-end production knives. Some people call them "midtechs."
     
  5. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi

    621
    May 25, 2017
    My Hinderers open just fine. Compared to a lil 0450 they open slower though. I would never doubt the ability of any of my Hinderer knives in a self defense situation, and that is all that I worry about.
     
  6. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    410
    Apr 6, 2017
    They're made maybe a tiny bit better on average, while costing way more. Hinderer also can't seem to figure out his detents, so you might get one that's great or you might get one that sucks. All 3 of mine were not good, and two of those were new Gen 6s. ZT's generally have detents that are better tuned and more suited to flippers.

    I think the ergonomics of the XM-18 are better, though.
     
    ScooterG likes this.
  7. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Platinum Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    Ergos: for me, a draw
    Action: ZT all the way
    Robustness: edge to Hinderer

    My thoughts after owning a lot of ZTs, 3 Hinderers, 4 CRKs and others...and assuming you have a desire for a high end flipper... I would say sell the ZT, pass on the Hinderer and get a Shirogorov. It will be similar quality to the CRK in more ways than the others.
     
  8. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    410
    Apr 6, 2017
    Good for you. The ones I have owned opened terribly, to the point where I wouldn't trust them for such tasks (if I could trust any folder). A flipper should open naturally and without conscious thought, and Hinderers all too often don't work that way. Unless I think about the deployment and be careful, they'll only half open. And that is on bearings, to add insult to injury.
     
    Night Rider and ScooterG like this.
  9. abbazaba

    abbazaba Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 30, 2015
    They feel different, it is tough to describe. I was surprised how much I liked my first XM-18 3.5 and I still have it. But I honestly think the 0562 is a better knife in every way. Just one man's opinion... About 7 Hinderers and 4 0562s later. Both similar and great knives though
     
    Lapedog likes this.
  10. myowngod

    myowngod Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 3, 2009
    I've had few XMs and an Eklipse (still have an Eklipse and one XM fatty wharnie) and have had several ZTs... I've never had a bad Hinderer as others here seem to have had... Action wise the ZTs have the edge. But, the Hinderer to me feels like a more robust and solid knife overall. I still have 2 hinderers... No ZTs made the keep forever list (yet).
     
  11. BigKurtHaze

    BigKurtHaze

    374
    Aug 2, 2015
    I would recommend a Koenig Arius for a noticeable step up in quality and action from ZT. If the robustness is your primary concern, go with the Hinderer.
     
  12. Jailhack

    Jailhack

    890
    Feb 7, 1999
    Interesting comments so far on the Hinderer, both for and against.

    I would have thought a semi-custom maker would have his production tolerances more in line and put out a similar product, knife after knife. Now I'm thinking maybe not.
    More comments, greatly appreciated.

    I had actually looked at Shirogorov in reading the forums, but the problem for me is that I am a generation behind. Last time I looked for a new folder, Spyderco's were a good knife for $50-$100 bucks. Now, I see Spydies well over $200 and to be honest am pretty surprised.
    Also, last I looked for a new folder, there was no such thing as a quality Russian folder. :)LOL!
    Do they honestly compare to the longtime standard by which others are judged, aka CRK?
     
  13. myowngod

    myowngod Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 3, 2009
    I got my first shiro a few days ago and I would consider it of equal quality to the CRKs I've owned.
     
    ScooterG likes this.
  14. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 17, 2014
    The utterly vast majority of people who have tried a Gen 6 (or hell, Gen 5) Hinderer have found that the detents are perfectly dialed, very snappy, comparable to ZT. On older Hinderers people had a point about the detent. Not anymore.

    If you've really got issues like you describe on a Gen 6, you should send it back to the Ranch for QC. What you've described is a minute anomaly compared to virtually everyone else who has described owning a Gen 6.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    craytab likes this.
  15. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Platinum Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    Very close, yes, and much closer than the others. You’ll need to look at Reate (out of China) for similar quality...and they make great knives but are more “Instagram” type knives IMO. Nothing wrong with that and I have a few knives made by them that are designed by Liong Mah. I use a couple of them that are very capable.

    I’m out of my titanium frame lock flipper phase at this point. If I had to have only one flipper though, it would be a Shiro.
     
    ChazzyP likes this.
  16. AlphaDog86

    AlphaDog86

    260
    Mar 30, 2015
    The 0562 is a great knife. But it can only tickle the Hinderer itch for so long. And it seems like you want the real thing. So I say go for it:thumbsup:
     
  17. Babboonbobo

    Babboonbobo

    57
    May 20, 2017
    I have an XM18 3.5 Bowie that opens very slowly, actually doesn’t flip at all but very heavy duty knife, feels good.
    I have a ZT 0562 that flips with authority, solid well built knife, carry this one a lot.
    I have a large Seb 21 that’s is just the smoothest knife and really well built!
    I also have a Shiro Hati that is as nice or nicer than the Seb but flips soooo smoothly you don’t even notice it moving until it snaps locked.
    You can’t go wrong with any of them, go with the XM or the ZT if you want to abuse it, go with the Shiro or CRK if you wanna slice it! My opinion.
     
  18. bluemetalchurch

    bluemetalchurch Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 4, 2014
    I've owned both - the Hinderer is more robust and is a good knife. The ZT is a much sleeker version and I really like their interpretation of Rick's blade shapes - a little wider.

    If you want a Hinderer get a Gen 6. with a Sheepsfoot or Skinny Slicer.
     
  19. 19-3ben

    19-3ben Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 27, 2015
    What in the world?

    Nobody is talking about self-defense and nobody asked if that's all you care about. The fact that's all you worry about actually minimizes the validity of your opinion because it's answering a totally different question that what is being asked.
     
    Pilsner, Lapedog and craytab like this.
  20. sharp_edge

    sharp_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 30, 2015
    I have had four ZT 0562s and still have two of them plus a ZT 0561. Also have two Hinderer XM-18s. They are all great knives. ZTs tend to be more snappy if thats what you prefer but the two Hinderers flip just perfectly fine to me.

    This is just my opinion but,
    Ergo: slightly goes to Hinderer
    Liner: Hinderer is titanium while ZT is stainless steel which can actually rust. No question Hinderer is much better.
    Aesthetics: goes to Hinderer
    Bang for your buck: goes to ZT
     
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