How Hard Can 420HC Get?

[jimmyd1982]

Ok I'm not defending anyone here but couldn't you be jdavis882? Only kidding but damn the similarities in your names are cracking me up

PS I don't know about the controversy but I liked some of his old youtube videos

Oh no, I've been discovered!

 

[Danke42]

Only to defend his deeply flawed banned mentor.

Let's not get bogged down with who's deeply flawed,,,

 

[Pilsner]

Let's not get bogged down with who's deeply flawed,,,

And Cliff even has his own forum. Why Gaston bothers with us here is anybody’s guess.

 

[danbot]

And Cliff even has his own forum. Why Gaston bothers with us here is anybody’s guess.

Just spreading the gospel of Cliff.

 

[Pilsner]

Just spreading the gospel of Cliff.

Like a crazed prophet of an apocalypse that will never come. Shaking his fist at an uncaring world, constantly enraged by its failure to recognise his genius. Yep.

 

[dug24]

For a few seconds I thought about taking Gaston of ignore so I could read his comical genius but then the sleeping pills wore off

 

[Mo2]

Just spreading the gospel of Cliff.

I bet you if cliff wasnt banned, he would correct gastie444 too.

 

[Pilsner]

I bet you if cliff wasnt banned, he would correct gastie444 too.

That is so very true.

 

[Danke42]

He'll correct you even if you're right. It's just his way.

 

[Planterz]

Cliff was never able to agree with anyone. Even himself.

 

[Danke42]

Cliff was never able to agree with anyone. Even himself.

I"m not arguing with you.

I"m explaining why I"m right.

 

[Frotier76]

Not a bad result for Buck 420HC

"BOS 420HC 67 - Buck vantage select" : 67 cuts of rope before becoming blunt.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/17366331

For starters you're giving that kid Pete a bit too much of credit in his edge retention testing on YouTube.The Vantage worked as a more 'eye-popping' demonstration for Buck's use of 420HC because of it's deep hollow grind and the cutting capability that grants with any knife bearing a deep hollow grind.If he did the test with a thick edge like a Buck Quickfire or a Bantam you'll find it will dull quicker from increased friction required in cutting.In short those blades will come out will the similar result as a Leatherman blade.In other words he'd have a hard time convincing people that Buck's heat treatment is special...but ordinary like any qualified manufacturer of knives.People need to understand that grinds also determine how good a blade can cut.

Take a Gerber Air Ranger and the Gerber/Bear Grylls 'Survival(laughing)' AO folder and test them both on rope.You'll find that the Bear Grylls model will cut longer because of the really fine edge it has and a deep hollow grind...same principle.Is that fair for me to make up a story and rant on and say 'Gerber has an awesome heat treatment' and try to market it? no...of course not.Because every knife model by any knife brand yields different results through different grind approaches.

 

[vwb563]

For starters you're giving that kid Pete a bit too much of credit in his edge retention testing on YouTube.The Vantage worked as a more 'eye-popping' demonstration for Buck's use of 420HC because of it's deep hollow grind and the cutting capability that grants with any knife bearing a deep hollow grind.If he did the test with a thick edge like a Buck Quickfire or a Bantam you'll find it will dull quicker from increased friction required in cutting.In short those blades will come out will the similar result as a Leatherman blade.In other words he'd have a hard time convincing people that Buck's heat treatment is special...but ordinary like any qualified manufacturer of knives.People need to understand that grinds also determine how good a blade can cut.

So your saying that there is nothing to Buck’s BOS heat treat? You’re saying it’s no better than any other plane Jane heat treatment and the only reason the Vantage cut more than ordinary heat treated 420 is only because of it’s grind? I do understand that the type of grind and edge angles can make some difference in edge holding ability but I highly doubt that it’s the ONLY reason it did better.

 

[Makael]

His single minded opinion against millions of owners, doesn't hold much weight,

 

[Frotier76]

His single minded opinion against millions of owners, doesn't hold much weight,

Then I guess you don't need to keep reassuring yourself then Makael.

 

[danbot]

For starters you're giving that kid Pete a bit too much of credit in his edge retention testing on YouTube.The Vantage worked as a more 'eye-popping' demonstration for Buck's use of 420HC because of it's deep hollow grind and the cutting capability that grants with any knife bearing a deep hollow grind.If he did the test with a thick edge like a Buck Quickfire or a Bantam you'll find it will dull quicker from increased friction required in cutting.In short those blades will come out will the similar result as a Leatherman blade.In other words he'd have a hard time convincing people that Buck's heat treatment is special...but ordinary like any qualified manufacturer of knives.People need to understand that grinds also determine how good a blade can cut.

Take a Gerber Air Ranger and the Gerber/Bear Grylls 'Survival(laughing)' AO folder and test them both on rope.You'll find that the Bear Grylls model will cut longer because of the really fine edge it has and a deep hollow grind...same principle.Is that fair for me to make up a story and rant on and say 'Gerber has an awesome heat treatment' and try to market it? no...of course not.Because every knife model by any knife brand yields different results through different grind approaches.

Of course geometry plays a large roll, but Buck also does an optimal HT. it's the best treatment they can do combined with good geometry that gives the value for the money and the best performance you could expect from the steel and the price matches.

 

[Frotier76]

So your saying that there is nothing to Buck’s BOS heat treat? You’re saying it’s no better than any other plane Jane heat treatment and the only reason the Vantage cut more than ordinary heat treated 420 is only because of it’s grind? I do understand that the type of grind and edge angles can make some difference in edge holding ability but I highly doubt that it’s the ONLY reason it did better.

I'm saying Buck's heat treatment is as thorough as any American knife manufacturer in the past..but not beyond or necessarily more superior.57-59rc was the standard hardness at Schrade Cutlery and Camillus.Did we slap it on blister packs and market it? no,it was a labor standard.Neither did Buck...you didn't see the Paul Bos name applied as a marketing strategy in retail until about 20 years ago.

 

[danbot]

I'm saying Buck's heat treatment is as thorough as any American knife manufacturer in the past..but not beyond or necessarily more superior.57-59rc was the standard hardness at Schrade Cutlery and Camillus.Did we slap it on blister packs and market it? no,it was a labor standard.Neither did Buck...you didn't see the Paul Bos name applied as a marketing strategy in retail until about 20 years ago.

Okay, but why not take pride in your excellent HT? Why not market that fact?

 

[Makael]

Hotel repairman know everything about everything.

 

[Frotier76]

Okay, but why not take pride in your excellent HT? Why not market that fact?

Not to sound brash but look at Spyderco...they sell well and don't market their heat treatment.If someone called(in the pre-internet days) we'd gladly tell the rc hardness.Camillus on the other hand as a bit pricier brand under Imperial Schrade did mention the rc hardness in the knife care information on their boxed knives.What you call an excellent heat treatment I call 'the norm'

Last I recall it was Buck that came to US to make slipjoint knives for them.For a company at the time with a 'special' heat treatment (not marketed at the time) they sure didn't mind ours either.