How Hard Can 420HC Get?

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Danke42 said:
Cliff Stamp? Didn't he steal a bunch of money from folks on here with phony knife sales? Of course he did.

I'm sure he just lies to steal. He wouldn't lie to bolster his reputation to steal larger sums. That wouldn't make any sense.
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Not Cliff. I don't know who you might be thinking of. Steve Corkum maybe?
 
Gaston444 said:
In my testing, cheap Chinese 420J, in initial fine edge holding (phonebook paper slicing) in the first 100 hits, while chopping into Maple, seemed to outperform everything I ever tried by a significant margin, including INFI, CPM-3V, various 440C, 5160, and even Japanese Aus-6.
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420J outperform INFI or Nathan's D3V? You've got to be snorting Drano or something like that. Please stop with the misinformation....
 
Gaston444 said:
But he has M390 at 334 cuts... Vs 67 for 420(!)... In reality the difference is probably very modest (or even less than modest): According to Cliff Stamp, whose testing I trust a lot more than Cedric's, the difference between a $1 Chinese knife in 420J (3Cr13, presumably 0.3% Carbon), with matching angles and polish, vs K390, CPM-M4 and VG-10, is very small and has many overlapping runs. I think he refers to a negligible statistical significance...


When you see an obvious difference like 67 to 334, you know this is largely accounted for by tester bias, edge finish/angle/geometry, user motion or non-randomly mixed mediums... Scatter alone means there would inevitably be overlaps between two steels...

In my testing, cheap Chinese 420J, in initial fine edge holding (phonebook paper slicing) in the first 100 hits, while chopping into Maple, seemed to outperform everything I ever tried by a significant margin, including INFI, CPM-3V, various 440C, 5160, and even Japanese Aus-6, probably the one with the cleanest structure (if we believe Japanese industrial claims). S30V in a $2K custom, and CPM-154 on an $800 custom, both micro-folded a detectable wire edge on single hits, even at fairly broad angles, so they could not even participate (this doesn't mean they didn't slice, just that they failed to keep the apex straight at similar angles)...

Cheap Chinese and Taiwanese 420J are the only two steels that ever went back into their respective sheaths, after a chopping test, with me not even bothering to touch them up(!)... Does this mean they were absolutely superior to INFI, 440C or Aus-6 in edge-holding? No, but when you combine that strange impression with easier sharpening (vs 440C at least!), it certainly seems like their edge-holding to sharpening ease ratio is way, way up there (as long as it wasn't -30 Celcius apparently)...

You can't infer absolute "steel rankings" and fine distinctions on tests that are never more than coarse "impressions" of the manufactured end result, unless you use machine-controlled motion and mix up the mediums, over long runs, in a way that goes even beyond what Cliff does. At minimum, purpose-built test mules, rather than different makes of knives, would make this an actual steel test, not just a knife test. But even then, it would all become an issue of manufacturing and heat-treat/steel composition matching well or not.

Just the fact that a tester will not mention "scatter" in his test results pretty much says everything you need to know.

Gaston
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Please stop. No one's listening to you.
 
Danke42 said:
Cliff Stamp? Didn't he steal a bunch of money from folks on here with phony knife sales? Of course he did.

I'm sure he just lies to steal. He wouldn't lie to bolster his reputation to steal larger sums. That wouldn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
I believe your thinking about jdavis and his Elmax-gate
 
Gaston444 said:
Cheap Chinese and Taiwanese 420J are the only two steels that ever went back into their respective sheaths, after a chopping test, with me not even bothering to touch them up(!)... Does this mean they were absolutely superior to INFI, 440C or Aus-6 in edge-holding? No, but when you combine that strange impression with easier sharpening (vs 440C at least!), it certainly seems like their edge-holding to sharpening ease ratio is way, way up there (as long as it wasn't -30 Celcius apparently)

... Gaston
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So what were your tests designed to evaluate? And are those results repeatable if done by others? And for not coming to any solid conclusions,... you sure seem to have come to solid conclusions!
 
There's something really wrong with me but these are some of my favorite threads to follow. I was actually just starting to crave some more Gaston incitement.
As a newbie I do learn something from the overall discussion or rather the litany of corrections so let's keep this going before the moderator breaks it up. :thumbsup:
 
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Gaston444 said:
But he has M390 at 334 cuts... Vs 67 for 420(!)... In reality the difference is probably very modest (or even less than modest): According to Cliff Stamp, whose testing I trust a lot more than Cedric's, the difference between a $1 Chinese knife in 420J (3Cr13, presumably 0.3% Carbon), with matching angles and polish, vs K390, CPM-M4 and VG-10, is very small and has many overlapping runs. I think he refers to a negligible statistical significance...


When you see an obvious difference like 67 to 334, you know this is largely accounted for by tester bias, edge finish/angle/geometry, user motion or non-randomly mixed mediums... Scatter alone means there would inevitably be overlaps between two steels...

(Redacted content to make it a bit less confusing)

Gaston
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Wait...so, this gem from earlier in a post in this thread DOES or DOESN'T matter? Couple that with the above bolded statement from you about user motion suggests that your own testing is invalid as many have suggested before.

"These are the same people who are convinced that expensive customs always hold their edge better than cheap factory knives.

They also think reducing edge angle reduces edge endurance."

I thought geometry wasn't a problem? A hint from a machinist, edge angles always affect outcome; They either work for the medium you are cutting or they don't.
Some will work for a short period of time before catastrophic failure..some will fail catastrophically from the inset. Edge geometries of cutting tools have to match materials that are being cut relative to their specific properties for longevity.

Perhaps my interpretation of a few statements you have made is off..but it really sounds like two different people making the assertions you have made in this thread. One of them Cliff Stamp and the other is you..If you simply forgot to put the statements from Cliff in quotes, that is understandable..but you should correct that if it's the case.
 
Danke42 said:
Cliff Stamp? Didn't he steal a bunch of money from folks on here with phony knife sales? Of course he did.

I'm sure he just lies to steal. He wouldn't lie to bolster his reputation to steal larger sums. That wouldn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

It was JDavis882 that did not deliver knives. Get your prejudices straight before you go on accusing someone.

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
It was JDavis882 that did not deliver knives. Get your prejudices straight before you go on accusing someone.

Gaston
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So you're not going to reply to any of the questions that people asked you?
You do know how conversations are supposed to work right? There is supposed to be some back and forth dialogue, without that your posts are the equivalent of walking into a room, letting out a massive fart, and leaving.
 
jimmyd1982 said:
So you're not going to reply to any of the questions that people asked you?
You do know how conversations are supposed to work right? There is supposed to be some back and forth dialogue, without that your posts are the equivalent of walking into a room, letting out a massive fart, and leaving.
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Ok I'm not defending anyone here but couldn't you be jdavis882? Only kidding but damn the similarities in your names are cracking me up ;)

PS I don't know about the controversy but I liked some of his old youtube videos
 
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