How many of you need to get burned by scammers before you learn not to use Paypal Friends & Family?

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luethge said:
I don’t think it’s the fees that have many sellers avoiding G/S. For me it’s the surprise $600 I owe for selling with goods / services. Personally, I don’t care about the fees - happy to pay them, and fully insured shipping. Most of the knives I’ve sold came from the exchange, I don’t have a way to prove I sold at a loss. Including taxes and fees makes selling / buying on the exchange less than worth it.

If I buy a knife for $300, sell it a month later for $275 with goods / services..

Tax is about $28
Shipping fully insured is another $25
PayPal fees $ 11

If I add those numbers to the price of the knife I’m re selling - it’s not worth it to the potential buyer. That’s a decent loss. I guess you have to pay to play. Fine by me. I’ll just use money orders from here out. Unless we’ve had dealings in the past.

I hope a new solution pops up somehow.

I’m attempting to be more responsible with my records, limiting purchases on knives I’ll probably not keep. I plan to use both goods and friends in the near future. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m NO expert with taxes. Is what it is..
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There won't be any tax on it if you sell for $275 after buying at $300, the only thing is that you'll have to document the loss on your tax return and be prepared to prove it in the event of an audit. That's the hassle that people are trying to avoid.
 
Cumulative sales over $600 = taxed I thought.

The biggest problem is proving an item was sold at a loss. PayPal transactions between private parties do not qualify as proof - I thought.

I’d heavily prefer Goods / services if I could clearly understand how to avoid paying taxes on items I’ve already paid them on.

I apologize to Spark Spark and Blade Forums members in general if I may have unintentionally derailed this thread.
 
I can't help it spark I'm an addict that likes to save a penny any chance I get.... Guys ,don't give in to this weakling mind set- thanks for the reminder Boss
 
I don't see how the IRS can tax someone on the sale of their own property unless they can prove you made a profit, and proving a "profit" when several years have passed and you could argue both inflation (your dollars are worth less) and depreciation. Is there a real example of this occurring? I'll either use G&S or use Venmo.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
I don't see how the IRS can tax someone on the sale of their own property unless they can prove you made a profit, and proving a "profit" when several years have passed and you could argue both inflation (your dollars are worth less) and depreciation. Is there a real example of this occurring? I'll either use G&S or use Venmo.
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It’s part of “The American rescue plan”. Any cumulative sales over $600 are going to require taxes being paid. If you can prove that you sold used knives , sold at a loss , you should be ok.

The challenge is proving it when you have no valid acceptable records from a “garage sale / flea market” of sorts.

This is simple for some people, frustrating as hell for others ( myself included ).

This is applicable to 3rd party payment processors: Venmo, Zelle, Cash App, Apple Pay, PayPal goods.

Please correct me if I’m wrong - I’m NOT an expert here.

Keep records, add sales tax + fees + shipping and use goods & services. Not many people are going to pay that price for a used item when they can just buy it new.

Selling at a huge loss , or charging too much seem to be the burden here ( to me anyway ).

I occasionally buy rare knives on eBay , I’ve pretty much stopped after they started adding taxes to all purchases. Buy it now for $250 winds up being $300 often. My choice is not to buy.

I wholeheartedly respect anyones opinion on this matter.

I think we can all agree it’s frustrating.
 
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I've probably had 200+ trouble free transactions on BF. All my purchases originating in the sales areas are paid with G&S. When I have been asked to pay F&F I cancel the transaction and move on.

I use a few simple verifications to check who I am dealing with, and to date, not a single problem.
I only buy from well established members with good feedback and many posts outside of the sales areas. I only want to deal with people who are invested in BF and the hobby.

It's sad that some people feel the need to save the Paypal commission and in so doing they open themselves up to an even bigger loss.
 
If it says F&F only then I will not be a buyer. Kinda discouraging that almost everyone is now in the "save me from the taxman" mode, claiming everyone with a buck in their hand
is either a brother or trusted friend. IMO that is stealing from PP. No doubt IRS is still harvesting info on transactions online, and pp aware of a huge jump in "friendliness".
 
Seems like 90% of the people I've bought knives from lately want F&F only. I have yet to run into a problem that couldn't be solved with communication and courtesy, although I'm sure one day I will. The problem with G&S is it only protects the *buyer* but leaves the seller wide open to scammers. My day job is e-tailing so I'm pretty familiar with this, it goes like this: Scammer/Buyer pays for item G&S. After item arrives the slimebag has 90 days to open a claim, usually they will claim that they never received it. If the seller was not savvy enough to add signature confirmation to the parcel, paypal sides with buyer EVERY TIME and refunds the money. Even if seller's bank account is empty it will go negative to cover it. This works with CC chargebacks too.
Personally I'm very happy to trade knives either way, but I'm not buying 500$+ knives so potential losses are limited.
 
Each time these discussions arise, it pushes me further into "face to face deals only" territory. It might limit the potential market, but it reduces chances of fraud and scams.
 
Off topic

We need to figure out a way to have a swap meet multiple times a year. Face to face, coffee and knives - buy, sell trade. Obviously we are all in different places / states , but maybe we could organize multiple locations in general areas / regions. I would definitely go - like the garage sale version of Blade Show 👍.
 
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This is a tough one for me. I have never purchased a knife from the forums. Always bought and sold through eBay for the last 10+ years. Information they tried to require from me as a seller became invasive, in my view, so I stopped selling through them. Come to think of it, that may have been because of the PP changes. That said, I can honestly say I am shying away from the G&S due to the tax implications. I don't care about eating the extra 3%. I think most of us see a net loss in this hobby, just the way it works. But having to prove that to uncle Sam come audit time seems like a huge hassle. I have some stuff listed now with no response, likely because I asked for F&F with a combination of no feedback. But I agree with leuthge. A quarterly swap meet would make life easier for those who overbuy, like myself.
 
The situation wasn't any better before this Hacker issue. Liars and scammers are all over the internet. Using G&S gives the buyer at least the minimal protection, one can return the knife or get a refund when things go wrong. Don't use F&F unless you wanna get your ass kicked by the seller.
 
mikey488 said:
If it says F&F only then I will not be a buyer. Kinda discouraging that almost everyone is now in the "save me from the taxman" mode, claiming everyone with a buck in their hand
is either a brother or trusted friend. IMO that is stealing from PP. No doubt IRS is still harvesting info on transactions online, and pp aware of a huge jump in "friendliness".
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👆- good point. PayPal is not going to let the SURGE in F/F payments go indefinitely without receiving compensation or requiring explanation.

I guess USPS money orders are too much risk ( not fast enough ) for most people as well.

The exchange just lost 95% of its charm. Thank you “American Rescue Plan”.

Edit - I apologize to anyone I may have offended by mentioning the American rescue plan , politics in general
 
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