how many ???

Seeing how the knives are made it is possible to put out that many. Kitchen knives can be easy once the pattern is down and your set up. Someone could put out quite a few in a day. Works for him, I'm sure he has better records than I do on how many sold.

Chuck
 
Do you guys think that he loses creditability because he is so prolific? What I mean is if he makes so many doesnt that make any single knife he has made worth less. I have been thinking about this alot actualy. I have started to make a few knives in the same patterns but I would rather make very unique knives. Alot of guys go one way or the other on this but is it O.K. to do both? Can you make knives that sell under $150 and knives that sell for over $1000? I have not sold anything over $250.00 yet (at least as far as knives go) but I am trying to find my place in the biz. I guess I worry that if people get used to me making simple users that it may be hard for me to make and sell big ticket art knives. I am sure its to early in the game for me to worry to much about this but I would like to hear some opinions.
 
I don't think it hurts him, the standard "production" style knives that he sells are relatively inexpensive. There's still room for him to make some high-end expensive knives. Then again, who cares? If you make 600+ knives a year, it's a business, not a hobby. A six figure business at his prices.
 
William, his creditability is strengthened because of his prolificness (I think that's a word). The more knives a maker gets into the hands of either users or collectors the better he will do. But the knives have got to be desirable and priced to sell.

You also answered your own question, it is a bit early in your situation to tell. I also see nothing wrong with making a good line of users and a few higher end collectible pieces. It really boils down to, what you want to be known for.

But above all else, a maker must make what he enjoys making.
 
Would someone post a link to this guys site, I'd like to see what your all talkin about, or was it already posted and I missed it.:confused:

Bill
 
Being an apprentice in japan how long before you would ever get to do a complete blade by yourself? I would think it should maybe read he handled or assited in 12,000 knives.
 
Well, I was curious myself and instead of speculating, I figured we could get our answer straight from the horses mouth. I pointed Murray to this thread so that he could set the record straight. This is his response.

Thanks for the heads up Bobby.

They can’t imagine it, so for them it must not be true. That holds a lot of people back in life.

Financially, 70% of those knives sold for under $60 (simple kitchen knives).

Although I’ve slowed down a bit, I used to average one thousand knives a year (custom knives rounding out the income), for an annual gross income just below $100,000.00.

That still only resulted in about $45,000 net salary.

Some dream, some doubt, and leaders do.

Post whatever parts of this you like.

Thanks again Bobby.

Sincerely,

Murray Carter

ABS Master Bladesmith

P.O.Box 307

Vernonia, OR 97064

www.cartercutlery.com

phone 503-429-0447

cell 503-816-6556

murray@cartercutlery.com
 
rkwalker said:
Being an apprentice in japan how long before you would ever get to do a complete blade by yourself? I would think it should maybe read he handled or assited in 12,000 knives.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Yoshindo Yoshihara lets his apprentices make as many knives as they want, as long as they don't do swords they're good. This may be true of other smiths, you can use the facilities to do whatever you want in your own time, as long as you don't make *our* blades until you're qualified.
 
Bobby Branton said:
Well, I was curious myself and instead of speculating, I figured we could get our answer straight from the horses mouth.
Click to expand...

are you sure you got the right horses mouth? I mentioned no names..
and this was not meant to be a W&C thread
though speculating was aloud, I saw some big numbers on a web site and asked could it be done honistly with out the hype we see so often ?
like I said it is hard to believe but man has stood on the moon too though not many have and you still have those that still don't believe we have done so....
anyway
many times here it's asked, how many knives do you make a year and others ask how long does it take to make a knife?

well it takes 20 years to make 12000 knives it seems for one guy.,
or one may say for a guy that has been making knives for over 30 years it takes him over 30 years to make a knife.
if the last knife he made took him the time and experience that he has behind him,, or be it 2 hour for a simple blade or a week for the same blade by someone else..

but does that answer those TWO questions ?

I asked a question and got a lot of answers. can it be done or can't it?

would you even want to make that many? like mentioned previously it depends on what you want... Mr Carter is absolutly right.. we are only limited by our own minds and wants..

looking like some what of a devils advocate here this got a bit off course but it's ending close to what I expected.. names got brought in to it and I don't believe they should have.. now
this story has built in to it more than one moral to it.. a different one for each our very own..
... but I'm sure we all got some thing ( different ) out of this..

what do you want out of making knives ? big numbers or ??? fame ???
to be remembered ??? gramp made this,,, or who the hell is that guy 100 years from now.. :D
 
It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out who it was. If that was not the maker, let me know and I'll edit my post. Was that the site? If not where is the site? If there is a web site out there that has a claim and people don't understand or believe, all you have to do is ask. If the claim is on their site, it would be nice to hear it from them.

That being said, it comes a time in every makers career (especially a full time maker) where you have to ask the question. Do I want to make a lot of knives and sell them for less money and hope to make a lot of money by doing business in volume or do I want to make less knives and charge more money. That is a double edged sword. If you are cranking out a lot of knives and have a lot of orders, you can not afford to have any setbacks in your day to day operations, especially if you are a one man shop and you wear all of the hats. On the other hand, if you want to make high end knives that takes weeks to complete, you have to have money set aside to pay for supplies and other bills until you can get paid and pray that you don't get sick or have acricis that keeps you out of the shop. Once you break the $1,000.00 barrier, your slice of the market gets a whole lot thinner.
 
Bobby Branton said:
It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out who it was. If that was not the maker, let me know and I'll edit my post. Was that the site? If not where is the site? If there is a web site out there that has a claim and people don't understand or believe, all you have to do is ask. If the claim is on their site, it would be nice to hear it from them.
.
Click to expand...

this wasn't a guess who project,
as you said It would not take a rocket scientist to figure out who it was. and some if not most of these guys already knew who's site it was anyway but didn't bring names into it, it was a question, could it be done .

and I do appreciate your input. :thumbup:
 
I can see that. He averaged one non-kitchen knife a day and slightly more than 2 of the simple under $60 ones. You figure that Randall, which makes knives to specific patterns, but not what i would call simple ones, turns out 170-180 a week from what I was told this past weekend. If they have 10 guys in the shop, that would be 18 per man or 900 per man per year. Even with 15 guys ( I can't remember the number although I was told....it was either 10 or 14) that would still be 600 per man annually. Even if you reduce that number by a third or even half because a solo maker has to do other things, that would still be 300-400 knives that require a substantial amount of work beyond the forging, grinding and finishing of the blade. I am shooting for 125-150 per year WAY down the road:eek:
 
Just to play devils advocate here, no one is saying that every knife is forged and custom made. He could have the blanks laser/water jet cut (normal for my kitchen knives) and quickly grind dozens a day. The HT can be done in batches,or even farmed out. None of this is to say he doesn't make stunning custom pieces worth several thousand dollars. It is obvious that a $60 kitchen knife is simple in design, simple in construction, and can be economical made in less than half an hour per knife total time ( when done in batches).
Not comparing myself with him at all, but when I make a batch of similar knives, I often do thirty or forty at a time, and it takes about a week start to finish. This is with about 20-25 hours work (hit and miss part time).A full time maker with a good shop routine could easily turn out several dozen commercial knives a week. The main control factor in production is the customer demand, not production capacity. If he has a source to purchase 500 a year ( catalog or retail outlet) he could do that in three months at the most, and still have 9 months to make high end pieces and do some custom shows.
I have had knives/swords sell for several thousand dollars, but 95% of everything I make sells for between $75 and $125.
Stacy
 
Sorry Guys, I feel like I'm the one that took this thread south by asking for a link to this makers site. My intentions weren't to upset anyone or cause problems, I didn't realize it was suppose to be a secret.
Personally I don't care if a person makes 1 knife or 1000 knives a year, I do wish I could crank them out a bit faster but my pet monkey is threatening for more bananas if he has to work any harder and those things ain't cheap. :D

Carry On,

Bill
 
Jason its quite evident you don't know squat about monkey's. You can't just grab any monkey off the street or your own monkey if you have one and start making knives, I went though several monkeys before I finally came across one willing to pay attention and learn the trade. The time needed to locate more monkeys willing to work and not monkey around could take years, then to supply more bananas could ruin a business in the early learning stages. Banana's are expensive, sure you don't think so because you only buy a couple at a time but a monkey will eat his weight in bananas daily and after every banana break they need a short rest, something about the finger cramps they get after peeling. Thats what my monkey tells me anyway.
So you see its not as simple as getting more monkeys, SO, please do more research next time before you make suggestions.. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Bill
 
I dont think it ever really mattered who inspired this question. I know for a fact I could make three knives a day but I dont want to be a one man factory. In some ways the fact that this question came up in the first place shows why. If a maker wants to be known/famous he/she neads to have exposure. One way to do this is to sell alot of knives. Another way would be to be a whore to publicity as in making marketing more important than the craft.

I am probably not going to make any friends with this post. But I am sure we all have seen this played out in a ton of ways. Mass output and low prices are not equal to quality. In no way am I saying this guys knives are not good. I am sure they are.

This is only my opinion but if you make 200 knives exactly the same its not honest calling them custom. Of course the market may not see it that way so who cares? Again this is not refering to the maker in question but a general observation.

I have seen artists destroy their reputations and the value of their art by producing to much. Have you ever heard of Thomas Kinkade? There is more to his story but basicly it ends with alot of lawsuits.

One has to be carfull making claims and being to big. Things can goe south fast.

To make sure this is clear I respect the (should have gone unamed) maker and his skill. As for his marketing...................:)

With all that said it would be nice if the average consumer stoped buying knives at walmart and instead purchased hand made knives. Hey a guy can dream right?

Oh and Thanks to everyone who voiced their opinions on this subject and Dan for starting this thread. In the art comunity Its prints and people sell tons of them but as I said it can backfire all to easy. Of course this is not quite the same thing. My wife is a painter and we refuse to sell prints.
Take care all and have a good day.
 
It's good to see his production is so great and that he clears a decent income on top of it. I make about 25K per year (after taxes) and when I RESPECTFULLY asked if he would SPLIT the cost for the CRACKED mammoth ivory he put on my 600.00 neck knife, I was told I would be "removed from his customer list." He hasn't replied to a single e-mail or phone call since. Now, he' sending me a 440.00 knife as a gesture of his magnaminity I guess, he gets the other knife back, PLUS the ivory I paid 170.00 extra for and, foolishly, trusted him to pick out. My 4 year old son is more mature than Murray ("don't reply to this e-mail as I will be removing you from my customer list") and my 8 year old daughter has a FAR better grasp of humility and decency. The guy is a legend in his own mind. He snatched the pebbles from his master's hand while his master was ASLEEP and then SNUCK out of the temple! Sorry, I gotta watch my blood pressure. Jim Falor SEMPER FI
 
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