How much does steel really matter?

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PaultheCarpenter

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Jul 12, 2020
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Oh boy.

Either this will be the umpteenth installment of a weekly repost or I'm about to get obliterated by a shower of defensive hatred. Forgive me, I'm new.

But before the deluge begins, allow me to preface this with announcing my being a fan of some of the better steels - 3V is my all time champion despite me no longer owning a knife in this steel -- I have never handled tougher. But recently I've come to respect some of the lessers. So to speak, so let's go.

Lets start with 8cr13mov. The whipping boy from China. You love to hate it, but Kershaw loves it and makes the most unflinchingly beaten on knives probably in the world, the seminal and best selling Spydie Tenacious laps it up. But is it one to avoid? Personally no.

With a sub 20° grind, somewhere around 16 to 18°, it's a delight. A well to do chap on youtube, Outdoors55 went ham and discovered the heat treat is key and lands this cruddy steel handily in the same ballpark as Spyderco's S30V Sage. Not that S30V is a benchmark for super steel these days, but when a cheap, beater steel matches a venerably respected steel slice for slice it's something to be noted. Great heat treat from the almighty Co there. Speaking of Youtube, Cedric & Ada put an 8cr13mov Kershaw through it's paces with a specialized grind and discovered it was better than anyone was letting on.

That's not all, 420HC is somehow still a force to be respected, if not reckoned with where it comes with the classic 110 from Buck. Despite the 116lb of brass it comes with. General consensus notes the hollow grind here, which motions toward a certain type of geometry suiting for the steel at hand.

What directs your choice of steel and do you truthfully need it in your day to day usage? Do you have a preference? Me? Personally no. I'll give my knife some ceramic rod and a strop every day I use it and everything is a mirror polish for the next day so it matters little to not at all, and these are working knives that see all types of abuse through a day.

Interested to hear your perspectives. Thanks for reading this far and please don't kill me.
 
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I did a thread like this a while back.
My feelings are this:

For 'normal' use, any like like steel is good. Knife gets dull, sharpen.
For extreme use, like if you are a butcher or spend your day cutting things up, then yes, the steel makes a difference and you choose according to your needs: holds an edge, hard to sharpen or dulls fast, easy to sharpen.
IMO, the heat treat is where it's at.
Miss the HT on a good expensive steel and you got a bad blade.
Nail the HT on a mediocre steel and it'll do the job.
Personally I don't give it much thought other than do I want carbon or stainless.
My next blade will be both (san mai).
 
Steel is one facet of the whole package. Most of the time, S35VN will serve you far better than 5cr13mov. The former is expected to have a longer lasting edge and more corrosion resistance.

However, we can’t ignore the other factors that come into play, such as heat treatment, edge angle, edge type (toothy vs mirror polish), thickness behind edge, grind type, blade shape, handle ergonomics, and overall build quality. All of these will determine how much you enjoy the knife and how well it performs. As you spend more time and moolah on this hobby, you will eventually develop your tastes.

In sum, steel does matter. Higher end steels have inherent advantages over cheap steels made by manufacturers that care little about customer satisfaction. But, you need to good steel to come with the other winning factors mentioned above. It’s like cooking the perfect beef stew. The most expensive beef in town can make for crappy stew if you screw up the salt content, temperature, cooking time, etc.
 
jideta said:
I did a thread like this a while back.
My feelings are this:

For 'normal' use, any like like steel is good. Knife gets dull, sharpen.
For extreme use, like if you are a butcher or spend your day cutting things up, then yes, the steel makes a difference and you choose according to your needs: holds an edge, hard to sharpen or dulls fast, easy to sharpen.
IMO, the heat treat is where it's at.
Miss the HT on a good expensive steel and you got a bad blade.
Nail the HT on a mediocre steel and it'll do the job.
Personally I don't give it much thought other than do I want carbon or stainless.
My next blade will be both (san mai).
Click to expand...

I agree with heat treatment..., and the grinding or design of the blade going to the edge. I have knives of the same steel, made by top tier knife makers, and they hold the edge very differently. One will dress ten deer, the other one and a half.

Also, now days you have many knives with steel and a design best suited to perforate 55 gallon barrels all day but useless for dressing a pig. So, it’s all about your needs, experience and budget. But good steel, properly heat treated, and a blade designed to your needs, will make you happy and you’ll keep that knife in a special place.
 
IMHO, heat treatment is just as important as the steel, maybe more so.

That being said, I don’t want to take a step backwards on steel. If I am replacing a knife, I want equal steel or better to the blade being replaced.

It does not have to be leaps and bounds better either. 154cm to S30v is an acceptable jump for me. Or S30 to S35 works.

In some ways ergonomics and heat treatment are more important to me than steel but, steel is one of the first things I consider with a new purchase. Steel vs. price.

I have a couple of knives with questionable steel and HT but, I keep them around because of their ergonomics.
 
I do appreciate good edge retention from good modern stainless steels for my small pocket knives.
 
OP, if you love 3V, check out Carothers Performance Knives (CPK):thumbsup:

ETA: Most of my EDC knives over the years (various Cold Steel models) have been AUS8, and have worked just fine for my needs. That said, also like S35VN a lot, but haven't found it in the right package to EDC yet.
 
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I have lots of knives in different steels. FOR ME, type of steel is nowhere near the top of the list of critical features. Even crap steel (at the corresponding price point) can be sharpened good enough to cut.
 
One more thing.
IMO, all steels start at the same place, the raw untempered billet.
Since blades are still made by humans, you introduce so many variables into the finish that unless it's done by a machine, IMO, it's not worth thinking about the quality of various steels.
You have different tempering methods; oil plunge, cryo, air cooling, etc. and again, unless done in controlled situations, you cannot possibly recreate exacting results.
Then, ten, twenty extra seconds on the belt sander can change all that (especially small, thin blades). Plunge in water to cool? You heard of re-tempering? Again, adding another variable.
Yes you can check for Rockwell, but unless you are putting every blade under a microscope are you sure you are getting the same structure from each blade?
I say this more about commercial blades as I would think they only check a small sample of work if they check at all.
Knives made in runs of 200? you think someone spends the same time and effort on all 200?
You heard of stuff made on Friday afternoons?
Remember what the bottom line is...
yeah go ahead and stamp it Elmax! it is Elmax after all...or at least that's what it started out as.
You think of the steel assuming every knife is made the exact same way.
Metal work is a science.

Go ahead and sweat the steel.
Nothing wrong with that.
I sweat the maker and his experience with the steel he is using.
My disclaimer: most of my stuff is 1095. Hard to fu(k that stuff up.
 
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