How much does steel really matter?

As others have said, steel + heat treat + geometry. Geometry does the cutting. The thing to realize, is that the "super" steels that can get to 65+ HRC, also allow you to have superior geometry than budget steels.

I have 2 identical knives (except for the steel) that I had thinned down tremendously. One was in VG10 and one in ZDP 189. The edge on the VG10 dulls faster and rolls easier because it's much softer. When they are both sharp, they will cut through softer materials like you wouldn't believe. Light sabers. But the softer VG10 can't go as long, the edge will roll sooner.

They both sharpen up quickly because the edge is very, very thin. Like 0.005" thin.

Having said that, I like all steels, my favorites to sharpen are O1 and 52100. I love the patina also, I think a "clean" looking steel is boring. I have knives in the entire spectrum and like them all. No need to feel you have to be on one side of the fence or the other.
 
You should always ask yourself what you're going to do with the knife. That matters a whole lot more than the steel.

Are you going to use it every single day for hours a day cutting harsh material or do you just open a package once in a while and/or cut a few apples?

Before you go all out on fancy steels you should always remember what you plan to do with the knife. I think too many people forget that. It's easy to talk crap about 8cr13mov for example, but if all you do is cutting a bit of tape, plastic, soft fibers or food here and there you'll be satisfied and won't NEED more than that.
 
I think it matters as much as you want it to and as much as you let it. I also feel that people under value the budget steels. Most people don't have hundreds of dollars of sharpening gear to sharpen super steels easily but the simple steels can be sharpened quickly and easily and can generally take a very fine edge.

I recently found myself going down the steel rabbit hole and gearing up to spend hundreds on a knife simply for the steel. I decided to take a step back instead and purchased a Kershaw Atmos. The knife cuts everything I need it to and I can do a couple swipes on a fine ceramic and it is back to shaving sharp. I still feel the pull for the higher end steels but I know it doesn't matter at the end of the day.
 
“How much does steel really matter?”

In folders not so much, but in a fixed blade it does because I prefer something that can take a ding, dent and a little prying.
 
PaultheCarpenter said:
Ah, I had an Ontario RAT in D2 and took a small semi-circular piece of blade off within a month or so. I tried contacting them and got no response so it probably soured my opinion and it's probably unfair to say all D2. If I was doing anything else with it, it would be a fine choice for an EDC, but it lacked for me as a work knife steel. And, as you say, it's a chore to sharpen.
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Yeah, I see how first experience with some steel being bad can put you off those steels.

From my personal experience only steel I trully enjoy sharpening is plain carbon.
You can also do it on any stone, diamond sharpening equipment is pricey.
 
EatingSarma said:
You can also do it on any stone, diamond sharpening equipment is pricey.
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They can be if you're getting the larger ones, but I do recommend a Work Sharp Guided Field Sharpener. https://www.worksharptools.com/shop/sharpeners/manual/guided-field-sharpener/

I keep one in my bag and being small and convenient, it's often the thing I go to to touch up a knife at the end of the day. Mind you ignore the guides though, 20 degrees is far too steep in my experience, I get almost twice as much cutting performance and edge retention at around the 16 degree mark.
 
jideta said:
One more thing.
IMO, all steels start at the same place, the raw untempered billet.
Since blades are still made by humans, you introduce so many variables into the finish that unless it's done by a machine, IMO, it's not worth thinking about the quality of various steels.
You have different tempering methods; oil plunge, cryo, air cooling, etc. and again, unless done in controlled situations, you cannot possibly recreate exacting results.
Then, ten, twenty extra seconds on the belt sander can change all that (especially small, thin blades). Plunge in water to cool? You heard of re-tempering? Again, adding another variable.
Yes you can check for Rockwell, but unless you are putting every blade under a microscope are you sure you are getting the same structure from each blade?
I say this more about commercial blades as I would think they only check a small sample of work if they check at all.
Knives made in runs of 200? you think someone spends the same time and effort on all 200?
You heard of stuff made on Friday afternoons?
Remember what the bottom line is...
yeah go ahead and stamp it Elmax! it is Elmax after all...or at least that's what it started out as.
You think of the steel assuming every knife is made the exact same way.
Metal work is a science.

Go ahead and sweat the steel.
Nothing wrong with that.
I sweat the maker and his experience with the steel he is using.
My disclaimer: most of my stuff is 1095. Hard to fu(k that stuff up.
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I translate that as good steel works and the other stuff covers the difference, and maybe with skills more.
 
More like unless you have laboratory like controls on the manufacture of your blade you never really know what you're getting.
 
For me it matters a lot, only up to a point. I won't carry Victorinox steel, for example. It seems like it's dull every time I go to use it. I'm not interested in sharpening every time I use my knife. Super-steels are not necessary for me, although I have a lot of them. I prefer blades with edge retention like 154 CM or better. But I also carry Buck 420HC, which seems acceptable as well.
 
TheEdge01 said:
If people only bought the knives they need, there would be far less manufacturers in business. I doubt many people would struggle to get by if they only had a simple slip joint with a 1095 carbon steel blade in their pocket to handle their daily cutting tasks.
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Or 440A/7CR14MoV, 420HC/Case "True Sharp", 4116 Krupp, and even (gasp) the offshore Buck 300 series with 420J2, if they want a stain-less blade. :)
I know I don't struggle with my slipjoints that use these steels, or those with 1095 or "T10" :)
 
afishhunter said:
Or 440A/7CR14MoV, 420HC/Case "True Sharp", 4116 Krupp, and even (gasp) the offshore Buck 300 series with 420J2, if they want a stain-less blade. :)
I know I don't struggle with my slipjoints that use these steels, or those with 1095 or "T10" :)
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Exactly!!! I was actually pretty fond of my Browning Black Label folder in 440A. It sharpened up super easy and took a very nice edge.
 
In a discussion many years ago with Blackie Collins, I learned that the actual steel alloy is not really an important factor in a knife, up to a point. He told me, and my own experience has proven to me, there's no such thing as a BAD knife steel. If it can be hardened to about 55RC or above, it will make a perfectly serviceable blade, PROVIDED the maker/manufacturer does his/their due diligence. Not all steel that can be hardened will make good knives, witness the 3Cr-7Cr series of Asian alloys, but most can be made to cut, at least for a little while.

GOOD heat-treatment and proper geometry are what makes a good knife. Blackie liked the Sandvik alloys especially, as they are good clean steels, easy to heat-treat properly, and they do what good cutlery steels are designed to do, take a good edge and hold it for a respectable amount of time. The fact that they're also relatively inexpensive, comparatively, was also a factor. And they're easy to sharpen.

I have some super-steel knives, but I usually carry a mid-range alloy blade. 14C28N, S35VN, and VG-10 are some of my favorites. I also like the more basic carbon steel alloys. 5160, 1095, L-6, SK-5, they all work for me.
 
A lot of my collection needed sharpening or being touched up. After messing up a few, I've had everything else professionally sharpened until recently. Changed my mind the other day and tried again.

I've found I definitely prefer the more "standard" stuff to super.

S30V, S35VN, and CTS-XHP were very easy. Took very little time. S90V was difficult and it wasn't even that dull.

I actually enjoy sharpening, and this experience has reinforced my preference of the mid-range steels.

For reference, the knives I sharpened today were:

ZT 0095S90BLK
Spyderco PM2, Manix 2 XHP, Domino
Massdrop Ferrum Forge WE Gent Select

I'm very happy with the end result on them all.
 
:) Yes , to me it matters !

But only in concert with HT .

:eek::poop: I've had a big expensive chopper fail completely , catastrophically , and dangerously .

Way out , all alone in the woods and left with a useless / worthless handle and blade pieces flown away into the bush . :mad::thumbsdown:

Just lucky that no one was hurt and that I could just hike home and didn't need the blade to survive . :(

So , heck yeah ...to me it matters a lot . Toughness more than anything else . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 
That sort of failure isn't down to the steel, it's down to the maker being utterly incompetent. I have my grandfather's khukuri from when he served in Burma with a platoon of Gurkhas that is in no way a super steel, or even a mid tier steel of any type, but I can hack down a tree with the thing.
 
PaultheCarpenter said:
That sort of failure isn't down to the steel, it's down to the maker being utterly incompetent. I have my grandfather's khukuri from when he served in Burma with a platoon of Gurkhas that is in no way a super steel, or even a mid tier steel of any type, but I can hack down a tree with the thing.
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I agree , probably a bad HT but that's hard to sort out at the consumer level .
 
It's the base of any knife, so, sure, it matters a lot. I mean no matter how many or what sort of heat treating magic you apply on a low alloy steel (like 420HC), it will never surpass a higher grade steel (if that one is properly heat treated, of course...). "Easy steels" like 1075 are a sure bet (you must really try hard to mess them up), but 440C needs some knowledge to get it right.
 
DangerZone98 said:
Steel is one facet of the whole package. Most of the time, S35VN will serve you far better than 5cr13mov. The former is expected to have a longer lasting edge and more corrosion resistance.

However, we can’t ignore the other factors that come into play, such as heat treatment, edge angle, edge type (toothy vs mirror polish), thickness behind edge, grind type, blade shape, handle ergonomics, and overall build quality. All of these will determine how much you enjoy the knife and how well it performs. As you spend more time and moolah on this hobby, you will eventually develop your tastes.

In sum, steel does matter. Higher end steels have inherent advantages over cheap steels made by manufacturers that care little about customer satisfaction. But, you need to good steel to come with the other winning factors mentioned above. It’s like cooking the perfect beef stew. The most expensive beef in town can make for crappy stew if you screw up the salt content, temperature, cooking time, etc.
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Well said brother. :thumbsup:
 
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