How Much Pull is Actually Needed?

Buzzbait

Buzzbait

Joined
Feb 25, 2001
Messages
6,675
I have a ton of slipjoints, with pulls ranging from about a 3 to an 8. I often steer clear of knives with low pulls, judging them to be either unsafe or too worn out. I think of a nice tight pull as a sign of craftsmanship.

But are my notions all true, or just misconception? Is a traditional with a pull of 3 really any more safe than if it had a pull of 7? I ask this because I've never had a traditional inadvertently close on me, in over 40 years. But I have received a few love cuts from my hand slipping, while trying to open or close a knife with a particularly hard pull.

I guess that I worry about this maybe a bit more than others, because my collecting focus is on scout knives. Scout knives are traditionally used outdoors, sometimes in remote areas, where you REALLY don't want to have an accident happen. But in the same breath, a lot of scout knives have rather soft pulls, probably because they were designed with children in mind, who might not be able to safely open or close a knife with a hard pull. Therein lies the conundrum.

What do you think? Does a stronger pull equate to a safer knife? Does a stronger pull ensure a longer lasting slipjoint?
 
The pull isn't the issue for me. It's the spring tension when the knife is opened. I prefer a stiffer spring for the most part unless it's a sub 3" blade. I also carry multiple blades so i have something that locks if i feel like i need that security. Also have a fixed blade too....
 
VashHash said:
The pull isn't the issue for me. It's the spring tension when the knife is opened. I prefer a stiffer spring for the most part unless it's a sub 3" blade. I also carry multiple blades so i have something that locks if i feel like i need that security. Also have a fixed blade too....
Click to expand...

I agree with this, I like a firmer pull because I like a stronger spring in general. Not only do they feel more secure in use, but there is something very satisfying about the pronounced walk and talk of a strong spring. Feels good when a knife opens and closes with an authoritative snap.
 
I haven't met a pull that was too strong for my tastes. I love the way my GEC 45 opens and closes with a big "KA-CHUNK!". That being said I don't think a soft or firm pull is inherently safer one way or the other. I think using proper knife handling technique is far and away the most important safety factor. Now, I've cut myself in all kinds of stupid ways, the worst was when I tried to wipe my very sharp #42 off on my jeans but with the edge facing away from me. I wiped a swath of fabric and skin off of my leg but failed to make the blade cleaner. :oops: Yet for all my goofs, I still haven't dropped a blade on my finger. Maybe it's boy scout training, or maybe it's the knowledge that my very strong pulling knives will take a finger off!
 
Really, the spring is only intended to keep the blade closed when in your pocket, and from partly closing by gravity.
The spring provides the friction to the blade, same as the liners or handle of a friction folder with no spring (Opinel, et-al)
The pressure on the blade while cutting is enough to keep the blade open.
I prefer a lighter pull, such as on a Buck 301 or SAK. I don't need or want to fight with my knife to open it if/when my hands are wet and/or cold.
 
I don't equate the strength of a blade opening with safety. In comparison, a knife is much more dangerous during the closing than the opening. I would think that as long as the snap is sufficient enough that the blade cannot fall open unexpectedly, it would be fine. With scout knives, there are blades/devices on both ends, so that might contribute the the spring being slightly softer than say, on a jackknife. 1 spring that has to work off both ends isn't built the same way as a 1 ended spring.
 
The only pull you really need is enough to keep the blade from opening in your pocket. IF…you are using the knife with proper technique.

We had a scout master when I was a kid, Mr. Van, who was a fiend for proper knife use. He'd pull you knife in a hearth beat if he saw you using the knife in an unsafe way. He inspected our scout knives at every meeting he was so fanatical on us keeping them sharp and in good shape. I have a clear memory of one meeting where he actually put a kid in his truck and drove him right away to where he had bought a scout knife and had to struggle to open it. Mr. Van had the kid go though the whole stick in the store until he found a nice easy oe and then had the store exchange the kids knife. He taught us to never, evert have a knife we had to fight with to open it.

With that in mind, I've examined a lot of very old pocket knives, and almost all the ones that had those well worn blades that were very pale shadows of what they once were, had easy springs. A very large number of very old knives in very good shape had heavy springs. My own personal theory is, the knives with the heavy springs back in the day when people actually used their knives as everyday tool to cut with, didn't like to fight with their knives any more than Mr. Van. Sitting at home in the easy chair fondling a prize GEC is not the same as being out on a boat with hands that may be cold, wet, or both. What is not too bad at home or in a store, may be a very different thing at night or in bad weather, when a piece of rope or something has to be cut right now.

For many years, even decades, my gold standard of pocket knife fit and finish and blade pull, has been Victorinox. They are always as perfect as needed. Not nail breakers, no sloppy excessive light pulls. Always just right. To add to the at, my experience with fraction folders has shown me that a back spring on a pocket knife is really not needed at all. For years now I've used Opinels, with the pivot peened a bit snug, and I almost never use the locking ring. The forces of cutting all are in a direction that will keep the blade open. Same thing with my little Sardinian Resolza that fausto so generously gifted me. More and more over the years, I've used the heck out of the resolza, and never had a problem with having no spring at all. It's all about proper use of the tool.

Give me a nice light pull anyway. I always preferred a light pull, even before I became an old fart with some arthritis issues. And there is another issue; one day those nice heavy pulls that you enjoy now, will be a pain, literally. Things change, and if you think you will be using that knife in a later stage of life, make sure you will be able to open it. Even my dad had to retire his beloved peanut because of senior citizen issues with arthritis issues.
 
jackknife said:
The only pull you really need is enough to keep the blade from opening in your pocket. IF…you are using the knife with proper technique.

We had a scout master when I was a kid, Mr. Van, who was a fiend for proper knife use. He'd pull you knife in a hearth beat if he saw you using the knife in an unsafe way. He inspected our scout knives at every meeting he was so fanatical on us keeping them sharp and in good shape. I have a clear memory of one meeting where he actually put a kid in his truck and drove him right away to where he had bought a scout knife and had to struggle to open it. Mr. Van had the kid go though the whole stick in the store until he found a nice easy oe and then had the store exchange the kids knife. He taught us to never, evert have a knife we had to fight with to open it.

With that in mind, I've examined a lot of very old pocket knives, and almost all the ones that had those well worn blades that were very pale shadows of what they once were, had easy springs. A very large number of very old knives in very good shape had heavy springs. My own personal theory is, the knives with the heavy springs back in the day when people actually used their knives as everyday tool to cut with, didn't like to fight with their knives any more than Mr. Van. Sitting at home in the easy chair fondling a prize GEC is not the same as being out on a boat with hands that may be cold, wet, or both. What is not too bad at home or in a store, may be a very different thing at night or in bad weather, when a piece of rope or something has to be cut right now.

For many years, even decades, my gold standard of pocket knife fit and finish and blade pull, has been Victorinox. They are always as perfect as needed. Not nail breakers, no sloppy excessive light pulls. Always just right. To add to the at, my experience with fraction folders has shown me that a back spring on a pocket knife is really not needed at all. For years now I've used Opinels, with the pivot peened a bit snug, and I almost never use the locking ring. The forces of cutting all are in a direction that will keep the blade open. Same thing with my little Sardinian Resolza that fausto so generously gifted me. More and more over the years, I've used the heck out of the resolza, and never had a problem with having no spring at all. It's all about proper use of the tool.

Give me a nice light pull anyway. I always preferred a light pull, even before I became an old fart with some arthritis issues. And there is another issue; one day those nice heavy pulls that you enjoy now, will be a pain, literally. Things change, and if you think you will be using that knife in a later stage of life, make sure you will be able to open it. Even my dad had to retire his beloved peanut because of senior citizen issues with arthritis issues.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, I bolded two things I want to speak to particularly. I don't think Victorinox gets enough credit for their fit and finish at all. They are churning out more knives every year probably than every other major knife manufacturer combined, and of the 3 or 4 dozen I've owned throughout my life, I haven't had any issues with a single one of them. Their grinds in particularly are incredible... always even and sharp. Hard to beat the value for the money.

I've gotten into friction folders lately and I agree that they make you realize that locks and springs are often overrated. Knives are safe because they're used safely, not because of any inherent feature.
 
As long as I can pinch hold the main blade and it doesn't open when trying to shake it open, I 'm fine with the knife. I have met a few like this at garage sales and they go back to the table. I have a few knives that do not have a lazy snap when closing , but they often have a reasonable pull...lets give it a 3 or 4. SAK builds them perfect (5-6) it seems and I agree with jackblack...never had a new one/and often used, that was bad. A slip joint has to have a hold while open...again if a SAK is a 5, at least a 4. No matter technique, when in use we can be the lazy, tired, or be in a hurry and keeping open with a good hold is valuable.
 
As mentioned above, SAKs have about the perfect pull. To answer the question asked by the OP directly- the spring needs to be stout enough to keep the blade closed and not be wobbly when open. I personally prefer knives with a stronger pull but that is just me. Use them properly and all will be well as long as the knife is taken care of!
 
I like the feel and sound of a strong pull. If the pull is too light it makes the knife feel poorly built to me. I open a lot of clamshell type toy packaging for my kids and if it's not strong enough to pierce without folding if I get bumped by the dog for example, it's too light.
 
So I have two knives that are pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum for me. My #71 is rather tough and when I first got it, I thought the pull was too much. I can't say that it has loosened up too much with use (and I do use it regularly), but I have actually come to enjoy it's rather substantial "walk and talk". In fact, it has become so satisfying that sometimes when I am a bit fidgety at my desk, I will pull it out and snap it open and close a few times. Though I somewhat dislike the half stop, the heftiness of the walk and talk certainly speaks quality on a more subconscious level... If anything, the half stop on such a burly pull knife is the one safety concern.

On the other hand, the 2016 forum knife has a very light pull, particularly on the main blade and it has no half stops. The pull is so light, especially compared to the 71, that it is disconcerting at times. The "talk" can be almost non-existent sometimes but I find that a drop of oil now and then tends to restore it to a more talkative state. This particular blade is one of my favorites though, and it sees pocket time on an almost daily basis. I have never once had any reason to feel that it is unsafe.

I guess in the end for me, it really depends on the individual knife. I think when a knife becomes unsafe, it is noticeably apparent and other indicators such as blade play will be more of a defining factor versus a lighter pull. If your backspring is bulging or moving when the blade is open/out, then that is an obvious concern as well.

I will add disclaimer though: I am mostly talking what I deem to be common sense, which can be a subjective moving target. I am new enough at this that I can't say that it is the voice of experience though....
 
I don't consider light springs a safety issue, but I really don't like them. I have a Buck 301 that I never carry and never will due to the spring tension. My slip joints don't really see hard use, except for maybe a trapper or large stockman. I think there's something very satisfying in a solid springs.
 
I like the ease of opening a knife with lighter springs, but I have a couple that are too light.
My test is when I'm making a wooden branch into a smaller branch. If the blade gets stuck and dislodging it causes the blade to begin to fold then it's a little to light for my liking.
 
VashHash said:
The pull isn't the issue for me. It's the spring tension when the knife is opened. I prefer a stiffer spring for the most part unless it's a sub 3" blade. I also carry multiple blades so i have something that locks if i feel like i need that security. Also have a fixed blade too....
Click to expand...

Agreed. The few knives I've had issues with, in regard to pull, were knives that seemed a little too easy to close inadvertently. I've had a couple or three try to pivot closed when doing something as mundane as stropping the blade, and I HATE IT when that happens.

Secondarily, it's gotta have at least enough pull to keep the blade affirmatively closed in-pocket, as well as having enough to still fully close the blade if/when there's a little bit of blade rub with adjacent blades or liners. A tiny bit of blade rub shouldn't slow or prevent the closing of the blade, due to weak pull; I've rejected purchasing a knife because of this.


David
 
I think it depends on who is doing the pulling. If the main blade on a Vic Farmer is a five, I guess I'd have to say that I like my springs around a 7. To me that's nice and firm. I'm young though, and my fingers and nails are still strong. My wife and her thin nails, as well as my dad with his arthrithic fingers, find the springs on my most favored knives to be too stout for their tastes.
 
It depends on the knife, for me. I have a vintage 8OT that the spey almost requires a pair of needle nose pliers to free it. I also have a few that will try to close up on a strop. My beloved medium Stockman has pretty soft springs.

I can deal with either strength, but for convenience I prefer them closer to a 5 or 6 than an 8. My brand new Beerscout has a pretty strong pull, but I'm nursing a bruise under my nail bed so I'm being a bit of a wuss right now. Still, it makes me appreciate the notch:D
 
- it's possibly all rather subjective.

Some guys may think a strong pull is a sign the knife is 'strong'. A well made, meticulously made, folder can have a light pull.

For me a pocketknife is a day to day convenience - something to enjoy using for simple stuff, so why need a strong pull. If you think you need a strong pull cos it's safer, are you using it properly...? The convenience, imho, is to be able to easily open and close my knife, so why have a nail-breaker, sorry.

If ever there was a task that could see the blade closing on me, I'd either be too tired, too intoxicated or too lazy. If the task was truly a liability - I'd change to a fixed or a locker.
 
The stronger the better in my opinion. I wont use anything that's less than a 5.5-6, it just feels to flimsy and cheaply made to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top