Your theory may well be right but there might be another explanation. The old knives with well-worn blades and soft springs may simply have been used so much that the springs have weakened over time from use and/or the metal-to-metal contact points have worn down making them easier to open.
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How Much Pull is Actually Needed?
- Thread starter Buzzbait
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Your theory may well be right but there might be another explanation. The old knives with well-worn blades and soft springs may simply have been used so much that the springs have weakened over time from use and/or the metal-to-metal contact points have worn down making them easier to open.
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Nice discussion.
Wardo46, worn cam ends may be why the old ads often said to "oil the joints" and Wostenholm even stamped it on their blades. It must have been a concern.
c1922
I wonder if strong springs on new knives were intended to break in. I haven't done any digging on the topic. No idea.
This old ad specifies that the knife has "heavy blades and springs". That must have been desirable to some folks. I've seen old ads that describe blades as thin and good for slicing but I have not seen ads for thin or weak springs.
c1917
My own preferences are probably around 5-7 on a scale from 1-10 if the Victorinox alox Pioneer is a 5.
Wardo46, worn cam ends may be why the old ads often said to "oil the joints" and Wostenholm even stamped it on their blades. It must have been a concern.
c1922
I wonder if strong springs on new knives were intended to break in. I haven't done any digging on the topic. No idea.
This old ad specifies that the knife has "heavy blades and springs". That must have been desirable to some folks. I've seen old ads that describe blades as thin and good for slicing but I have not seen ads for thin or weak springs.
c1917
My own preferences are probably around 5-7 on a scale from 1-10 if the Victorinox alox Pioneer is a 5.
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Good comment and about the way I view things although I tend to like fairly heavy pulls as long as they aren't nail breakers. My reference pull are the medium and large Vic SAKs. They generally are about a "5", sometimes a "4" to me. However some of the smaller ones like the Classic can have very weak springs. In general, a good pull is a safety thing for me and one knife with an extremely soft pull is basically unsafe to use outside of my house unless I pay very close attention. I don't want to have to pay that close of attention to something like this in the field.
Part of the reason I loved Case knives as a kid was because of the snap which reflects the spring strength and resulting pull.
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What fishunter said. Pretty much word for word. (Bold is my emphasis)
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Not much to add that hasn't been said, but that never stops me
I've been bit by the blade on my GEC 54 because it's a nail-breaker and snapped closed when I didn't have a good purchase on it. Yet, I carry it a lot and just stay aware that it might do this.
On the other hand, my Buck 301 with a butter-smooth pull just has too soft of a "lock in place" snap when open and as a result spends much more time in the drawer than in my pocket, which is a shame.
I think that with a soft spring and no lock, normal cutting chores are safe due to the directional tension on the blade, but when using the blade to pierce or punch, it becomes unsafe, especially for young hands.
I've been bit by the blade on my GEC 54 because it's a nail-breaker and snapped closed when I didn't have a good purchase on it. Yet, I carry it a lot and just stay aware that it might do this.
On the other hand, my Buck 301 with a butter-smooth pull just has too soft of a "lock in place" snap when open and as a result spends much more time in the drawer than in my pocket, which is a shame.
I think that with a soft spring and no lock, normal cutting chores are safe due to the directional tension on the blade, but when using the blade to pierce or punch, it becomes unsafe, especially for young hands.
black mamba
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I have been handling and using slipjoint knives for over 50 years now, and the only times I've ever cut myself was with firm pulls and half-stops. Twice to be exact, when the half-stop jerked the blade loose from my control and nipped me. Certainly my own fault for being less than alert, but there it is. My preference is for medium to firm cam tangs (5-7 pulls), as I just enjoy the good snap open and closed. I don't ease my blades closed, I let 'em snap (love the sound!). I've only had two knives out of hundreds where this was a problem, and sharpening out the edge ding solved it then. I can't stand a knife with a "too soft" spring, 4 or less, not because it's unsafe, but because it just feels wrong to me.
If I'm doing any stabbing or poking, I use a locker or a fixed blade. Spring tension, as I use 'em, has very little to do with the safety of the knife.
If I'm doing any stabbing or poking, I use a locker or a fixed blade. Spring tension, as I use 'em, has very little to do with the safety of the knife.
My personal opinion is based on my likes without much rationale. I used to like a very firm pull, not for safety reasons, but because it felt like quality to me. Overtime I found myself preferring a medium pull, like what you find on an Alox pioneer. If it's easier for me to open, and I don't have to think about it, I seem to enjoy the tool more. Admittedly I dont favor very light pulls, but there is no logic to it.
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Piercing or punching calls for a Sheepsfoot or Wharncliffe blade. Then the pressure on the tip forces the blade to stay open.
meako
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I think the whole concept of pull strength should be standardised.
Until then its completely subjective and slightly mysterious as to what exactly the difference between a 3 and a 6 or a 7 and 8 pull actually is.
We need a Beaufort or Richter type scale. There are a lot of factors at play here.
Usage, environment, size and strength of user, spring tension,materials and age of knife to name just a few.
My personal pull strength scale probably only goes 1-5 from weakest to strongest.
Whilst I do appreciate and love 'the snap" or "KA-CHUNK" of a good strong spring I'm also in favour of thew somewhat quieter but just as firm precise "click" of a well made knife.
Is there a machine which grades them? Is there a scale which goes from "whoa it just flopped open" through"clothes peg" right out to "bear trap" ??
Until then its completely subjective and slightly mysterious as to what exactly the difference between a 3 and a 6 or a 7 and 8 pull actually is.
We need a Beaufort or Richter type scale. There are a lot of factors at play here.
Usage, environment, size and strength of user, spring tension,materials and age of knife to name just a few.
My personal pull strength scale probably only goes 1-5 from weakest to strongest.
Whilst I do appreciate and love 'the snap" or "KA-CHUNK" of a good strong spring I'm also in favour of thew somewhat quieter but just as firm precise "click" of a well made knife.
Is there a machine which grades them? Is there a scale which goes from "whoa it just flopped open" through"clothes peg" right out to "bear trap" ??
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There's no "standardized machine".
AG Russell ginned up a little device that clamps onto the blade so they can measure how much force is actually required to open a it. They kind of have to as they develop new suppliers. AFAIK everyone else goes by the "feel method". ("Feels good?" then "is good").
AG Russell ginned up a little device that clamps onto the blade so they can measure how much force is actually required to open a it. They kind of have to as they develop new suppliers. AFAIK everyone else goes by the "feel method". ("Feels good?" then "is good").
r8shell
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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There are other factors besides spring strength that make a blade easy or hard to open. An example would be the nail nick on the pen blade of this Utica Barlow. If it were farther from the pivot point, it would be much easier to open, but that would have nothing to do with the strength of the spring.
I have rather thin, weak nails, so I prefer a knife with a lighter pull, but I don't mind a stiffer spring if the blade is pinchable. As long as it stays open during normal use, I'm happy.
I have rather thin, weak nails, so I prefer a knife with a lighter pull, but I don't mind a stiffer spring if the blade is pinchable. As long as it stays open during normal use, I'm happy.
black mamba
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The scale is somewhat standardized or agreed upon, with 0 being no tension, 10 being nearly impossible to open, and 5 being the normal pull of a 93mm SAK, which are quite consistent. The gray areas come in between, but anyone who has handled very many slipjoints should be within about a point of the agreed upon standard.
In the last 20 years I've only had stitches from a knife that had way too much pull. Never one that was soft since I treat all my non-locking knives with the same care. At my age if it takes too much work to open it then it is gone quickly. My main knives are Alox Vics which are pretty much the max I want. Anything else is sold on the spot. When I need a knife to use why in the world would I want to have to struggle to get it open??
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meako
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OK ta.
I just took delivery of this little beauty.
The main blade there is around 2 on the 1-5 meakometer.
The spey and sheepsfoot operating on the other spring are another story.
Spey is around 4 but the sheepsfoot in the centre is a nailbreaking 4.8 .. and Ive got nails like a Goanna
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I just took delivery of this little beauty.
The main blade there is around 2 on the 1-5 meakometer.
The spey and sheepsfoot operating on the other spring are another story.
Spey is around 4 but the sheepsfoot in the centre is a nailbreaking 4.8 .. and Ive got nails like a Goanna
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Campbellclanman
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Nice I*XL Meako
Placement of the nail nick has some degree of help depending of the purchase of the pivot point but it will always come back to the strength of the spring in any case, The nail nick that is closer to the pivot in conjunction with a real tough Spring is a knife that would most probably stay in the drawer.
I cannot see reason as to why a Cutler Firm trying to target their market expectations (+) would then limit their audience by producing a knife with a pull of between a 8-10.
When I open a knife that has a pull of around 6 maximum 7...... I immediately think " mmm nice".
Using a knife that has a massively strong pull when not everyone has Iron Nails is a chore- and not a pleasure.
Placement of the nail nick has some degree of help depending of the purchase of the pivot point but it will always come back to the strength of the spring in any case, The nail nick that is closer to the pivot in conjunction with a real tough Spring is a knife that would most probably stay in the drawer.
I cannot see reason as to why a Cutler Firm trying to target their market expectations (+) would then limit their audience by producing a knife with a pull of between a 8-10.
When I open a knife that has a pull of around 6 maximum 7...... I immediately think " mmm nice".
Using a knife that has a massively strong pull when not everyone has Iron Nails is a chore- and not a pleasure.
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My Queen 41L has the strongest pull of any of my knives. Sadly, I wish it were lighter...it is a linerlock after all so I don't need it to be so tough. With that being said, is there a way to lighten a strong pull a bit? The pivot is clean and oiled..just a strong spring.
I have personally had good luck leaving a blade partially open for a period of time to relax the spring a bit. I open the blade just enough to put the spring at its maximum tension.
I have done this on 2 knives. The pen on my medium case stockman was very tough to open, so I let it rest for 5 or 6 days, testing daily. It is now has a medium-strong and very nice pull. The caplifter in my beerscout was impossible for me to open so I let it rest for what ended up being about 3 weeks. Now it's perfect.
Good luck.