How Much ???????????

WILLIAM.M

WILLIAM.M

Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
12,196
All of us like to think the knives we carry can do the tasks we require of them.

My question is this

In regards to a Survival Wilderness knife--

#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???

2:How much Cutting???

3:How much Battoning??

4:How much Skinning??

I like Choppers but would not feel underknifed if I was in a situation where I did not have one.

I feel that a bigger blade can do what a smaller blade can do--better than a smaller blade can attempt to do what a bigger blade can.

However---I feel that in a Survival situation(broke ankle during solo hunting for example)-that you would not be doing a lot of chopping.But in other situations--the ability to chop well and fast might save your life.

What do you think you will be doing the most with your Survival knife of the 4 Tasks above??

If it's #2--what will you be cutting???

If it's chopping---what will you be chopping??

Your thoughts??
 
In regards to a Survival Wilderness knife--

#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---??? 0

2:How much Cutting??? Cutting poles for a shelter, possibly cutting cordage or material for shelter building, if it turns out to be long term making a few traps, a fishing spear, etc.

3:How much Battoning?? 0, unless all the wood I can find is wet. Then initially probably one log to get to fire started.

4:How much Skinning?? Little to none, as it's not super likely that I will be able to catch larger game before I am found or rescued.
 
All of the equipment I bring, including the knife or knives I bring, are dependent on what I plan on doing while I'm out, so my thought process is similar to what you're saying. If I'm survival camping then I may bring this set of tools. If I'm family camping I'll bring a different set (and weight is a non-issue because my wife will only car camp). If I'm climbing or ultralight backpacking then weight is a concern, etc.

What knife I bring also depends on what companion tools I'm bringing. Sometimes an axe, a hatchet, a saw, or a chisel sometimes when I'm trying to do some cool woodworking that never works out.

Terrain also dictates what I bring. If I'm going above tree line in an alpine setting then I won't need an axe or saw, and I can probably get away with just a folder (which is what I did for 12 years of professional mountain guiding around the world).

Weather and time of year also make a difference. If I'm expecting heavy rain or snow then I prefer to have something I can chop with so that I can build a fire, get to dry wood, make a shelter, etc. more quickly. If I'm racing the sun or weather I prefer bigger tools to get the job done more quickly.
 
I think a chopper is more important when you don't have much firewood.

If the area has a lot of firewood and downed branches I can usually gather enough to get a nice fire going w/o cutting much up.
 
WILLIAM.M said:
All of us like to think the knives we carry can do the tasks we require of them.

My question is this

In regards to a Survival Wilderness knife--

#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???

2:How much Cutting???

3:How much Battoning??

4:How much Skinning??

I like Choppers but would not feel underknifed if I was in a situation where I did not have one.

I feel that a bigger blade can do what a smaller blade can do--better than a smaller blade can attempt to do what a bigger blade can.

However---I feel that in a Survival situation(broke ankle during solo hunting for example)-that you would not be doing a lot of chopping.But in other situations--the ability to chop well and fast might save your life.

What do you think you will be doing the most with your Survival knife of the 4 Tasks above??

If it's #2--what will you be cutting???

If it's chopping---what will you be chopping??

Your thoughts??
Click to expand...


First off...I study two different survival situations. One where it is ok to make a lot of noise and we are hoping to be found by pretty much anyone. Or a survival situation where we are performing E&E as in a combat environment or "Post-Katrina" type event where we are trying not to draw the attention of specific groups of people.

In a "normal" survival situation where I'm not trying to avoid the wrong attention I'd definitely want at least a heavy seven inch blade...something the size of my A-1... to do some chopping with maybe something a little larger. Especially if I am injured.

In an E&E situation I am going to be making as little noise as possible so something in the 4.5 to 5 inch range...something like my RC4, Rogue Wolf, Delta Foxtrot would be fine by me.

Primary cutting for me would be fire craft, making traps & triggers and such, food prep, and shelter materials but I don't live in the frozen north :) I want all my knives to work with skinning...that's why I no longer have any tanto blades.
 
Chopping - to build a shelter I would use a chopper, fresh green saplings are gonna be stronger than old dry/rotted logs.
Skinning - I could do it with a big knife if it's all I had ;)
I've watched my Dad process a whole deer just using his W49 Bowie (several times)
Battoning - Only if I really needed to
Cutting - to make traps or food prep
If it's a survival situation then you would make do with the blade you got Big or Small ;)
I myself would feel better with a Bigger blade (6" ~ 10") with the right blade profile (drop point/spear point )
 
#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???

2:How much Cutting???

3:How much Battoning??

4:How much Skinning??

Taking into account that the average survival scenario lasts for around 72 hours, I doubt very much that I'm likely to be skinning anything.
I also doubt that I would be required to chop anything over than around 1" in diameter, this size would suffice for most types of shelter.
Battoning, maybe if I needed to split some wet wood in order to get dry tinder to start my fire.
Cutting might be employed to make fuzz sticks, splints, crutches or even cutting away bark to reach the edible Cambium layer in trees if the situation occured in Winter.
 
pitdog said:
#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???

2:How much Cutting???

3:How much Battoning??

4:How much Skinning??

Taking into account that the average survival scenario lasts for around 72 hours, I doubt very much that I'm likely to be skinning anything.
I also doubt that I would be required to chop anything over than around 1" in diameter, this size would suffice for most types of shelter.
Battoning, maybe if I needed to split some wet wood in order to get dry tinder to start my fire.
Cutting might be employed to make fuzz sticks, splints, crutches or even cutting away bark to reach the edible Cambium layer in trees if the situation occured in Winter.
Click to expand...

OK

Send me that Chopweiler

Hell-I'll even pay for shipping

(and I agree with all your points)
 
I take the easy road and just take one good chopper and one good slicer, and leave the philosophy to the philosophers. :p
 
until you are in a Wilderness Survival Situation, you aren't going to know what gear you will have available, what your immediate and long term needs are, what your immediate environment will be like... You can't plan it or idealize it or downplay it. That's why I carry an RC5-I know that no matter what my situation is and tool needs are, it will step up to the plate and perform again, and again and again.
 
Well, if I am in the situation, I would want a fire, and a shelter. (The shelter part of this is assuming I did not break my ankle)

#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???
I would be chopping small trees/branches to make some sort of shelter. Also, if the wood is all wet around me possible a few small dead standing trees.

2:How much Cutting???
Cutting wood to pass time/make a spoon or something of the sort when I am tired.

3:How much Battoning??
Depends on the temperature and how wet the wood it. If it is damp at all, a lot of it. If everything is bone dry, I wouldn't need to waste the energy to baton anything.

4:How much Skinning??
Little to none, depending on how long I would be out for. If anything, it would be small, like a fish or possible a small 4 legged furry critter if I got lucky.
 
TheGame said:
Well, if I am in the situation, I would want a fire, and a shelter. (The shelter part of this is assuming I did not break my ankle)

#1:How much Chopping do you think you would be doing ---???
I would be chopping small trees/branches to make some sort of shelter. Also, if the wood is all wet around me possible a few small dead standing trees.

2:How much Cutting???
Cutting wood to pass time/make a spoon or something of the sort when I am tired.

3:How much Battoning??
Depends on the temperature and how wet the wood it. If it is damp at all, a lot of it. If everything is bone dry, I wouldn't need to waste the energy to baton anything.

4:How much Skinning??
Little to none, depending on how long I would be out for. If anything, it would be small, like a fish or possible a small 4 legged furry critter if I got lucky.
Click to expand...

Great answer!!!!:thumbup:
 
I'll take a reverse approach here.. I get out a fair amount...I'm constantly changing my knife setup.... and what I do depends largely on my set up.... THe places I go are primarily hard wood forests.... If I have an axe and there are dead trees around I'm chopping....
If the answer is no and no than I'm scrounging... which works fine too...I usually only baton when making fire boards, or when attempting to get to dry wood after a soaking... But I've shaved wet wood away to get to the dry wood beneath many times as well.
In all honesty most things I do can and have been done with a folding knife..
but in the in the norht east in the the winter... I don;t take to the woods without a small hatchet or a larger knife.. just to have should snow cover make foraging difficult, and I have no other choice than to split chop and baton...

now that that I;ve meandered all over the place let me go back to the OP
Cutting would be the primary use of my blade..(including carving)
all the others are incidentals. depending on other factors.
 
WILLIAM.M said:
However---I feel that in a Survival situation(broke ankle during solo hunting for example)-that you would not be doing a lot of chopping.But in other situations--the ability to chop well and fast might save your life.
Click to expand...
Please explain this a little. How is chopping fast going to save my life?

It is my OPINION & I teach NOT to rush much of anything. Speed tends to lend itself trouble. Poor footing, carelessness, fatigue. If I'm trying to "survive", the last thing I would want to do is hurt myself trying to quickly chop something with a knife.

Picking a knife based on where your going is probably more of an influence on what blade would be most suitable. That said, I don't like lugging pig choppers around, so If something happened to me, I'd likely not have it on my person anyway. In my gear I do carry a saw.
To me "survival" and an "unplanned stay" are completely different. I have had to spend an unplanned night away from base camp with only the stuff in my fanny-pack, and once with a day-pack. Inconvenient yes, survival no. I had some gear with me that made it a way more comfortable stay.
Survival is me not being in control of what lies ahead. For instance being lost for several days may become survival. Getting separated from my gear in a fall with injury, E&E type situation, survival. You must get by on whatever is on your person at that time. I think more consideration should be given to what can be kept with you easily as survival gear, and what you carry with you that's nice to have but not easily kept on your person is just general equipment.
When you're in the desert you may want a longer thinner blade if there's cactus you could use after getting by the spines. In some high desert areas a short bladed knife that hold an edge would be no disadvantage. If your in heavy vegetation a chopper may well be quite useful.
Having the knowledge and skills necessary to do without is where the biggest advantage is gained I think.
 
BigNate said:
Please explain this a little. How is chopping fast going to save my life?
Click to expand...

You are caught in a snow storm-you need to make shelter fast.

You're attacked---by anything(man or beast)--Having a Large fixed bladed knife is going to make you more able to defend yourself much better than a smaller blade.
(lest it's a Bear--then you can just chop off your own head first)

I can not EVER recall reading or hearing of anyone EVER who had a Large knife with him-that ever suffered because of it.(lest he fell on it):eek:

I'll take a chopper over a SAK in a true survival situation anyday of the week.

I was just asking everyone what tasks they see themselves doing if they needed to use a knife to survive.

I do not think using a knife "fast" makes it more dangerous if you are trained well in the use of such(and besides--you can not chop slow.)

I ALWAYS carry several blades out when I'm hiking,backpacking,etc.

The EXTRA weight does not bother me-(I often hear that complaint from fat people that Big knives weigh too much-and since I used to weigh 270lbs I know how they feel-but they need to work on burning off the extra weight)

and like most of you--I like chopping things.

So I get more fun as well as options with a larger Blade.

I do not think I'm ever going to be doing a lot of Chopping--but It's worth the few extra pounds to bring the Chopper along.
 
RescueRiley said:
I'll take a reverse approach here.. I get out a fair amount...I'm constantly changing my knife setup.... and what I do depends largely on my set up.... THe places I go are primarily hard wood forests.... If I have an axe and there are dead trees around I'm chopping....
If the answer is no and no than I'm scrounging... which works fine too...I usually only baton when making fire boards, or when attempting to get to dry wood after a soaking... But I've shaved wet wood away to get to the dry wood beneath many times as well.
In all honesty most things I do can and have been done with a folding knife..
but in the in the norht east in the the winter... I don;t take to the woods without a small hatchet or a larger knife.. just to have should snow cover make foraging difficult, and I have no other choice than to split chop and baton...

now that that I;ve meandered all over the place let me go back to the OP
Cutting would be the primary use of my blade..(including carving)
all the others are incidentals. depending on other factors.
Click to expand...

another excellent answer:thumbup:
 
The ability to do ANYTHING fast can help save your life. For example, you have hypothermia. The only available wood is standing 3-4 inch saplings. Being able to expiditiously fell those saplings and farther work them into smaller useable wood for fire fuel will save your life. I think this is where he's coming from. In a long term survival situation, much more extensive woodwork may be needed for semi-permanent shelter and tool/untinsil fabrication, and this will change your answer as well. Yes, for a 3-4 day situation basic camp craft could very well be the necessary limit for woodworking that you need to accomplish. If you're stranded in the northwoods of Canada by a few hundred miles on every side, fashioning some sort of cabin and the tools to build it will be necessary. Improvised cooking equipment, traps, food storage, processing firewood, hunting tools like a bow, atlatl, spear/harpoon etc, skinning and tanning, processing and storing meat, suddenly much more comes into the picture. Long term survival is a worst-case scenario, and as such is what I try to prep for. Personally, I don't really think of it in terms of how much utilizing my tools needs to be done-I think of how many tasks need to be done to improve my chances of survival and quality of life and how to most efficiently complete those tasks.
 
If I had a large knife with me in a survival situation I guess I would be doing chopping and batoning however it's not very likely because very often people are unprepared when they get into that kind of situation in the first place. I'd honestly much rather have a 2-5 inch fixed blade or pocketknife in that scenario because a small knife can be much more versatile than a big one in 90% of the tasks that it would be required for. I really wouldn't mind collecting smaller sticks and logs etc for a fire because not only does it require less calories over all than carrying a large knife and then chopping, splitting etc but I would also get the chance to get to grips with my surroundings while searching for suitable wood. I'd like to see someone carve a fork for example with a 10"+ knife! That would be a laugh. I'm sure it could be done but with great difficulty.
 
I lean towards "The faster I am moving, the smaller the blade" school. If I need to chop, I will baton a smaller , thick blade. For me, it has become down towards looking for the perfect handle more than the perfect blade. Most of what I do is weekend long almost minimalist practice scenarios, and all four blade uses come into swing. I also use the back of my blade as a scraper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top