How public are you with your knives?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ventura Knife Guy said:
Interesting topic.

If I'm in an urban, suburban or other "civilized" environment (where I am 99.99% of the time), I carry a folding knife or multi-tool. I don't flash it about because I was raised to understand that such behavior is both crude and vulgar. I was also taught the correct usage of the term "y'all." [Got the picture?]

If I am in the "wilderness" or other "uncivilized" environments I usually carry one or more fixed-blade knives. I make no effort to hide them, but neither do I make any effort to emphasize their presence. Once again, such a display would be both crude and vulgar.

A knife or other edged implement is a TOOL. Just like almost all tools (hammers, screwdrivers, drills, automobiles, etc.) they can be used as weapons. A person simply does not go around brandishing or calling attention to one's tools ------ unless said person actually IS A TOOL!

Do I get an "AMEN!" on this?
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
pinnah said:
Where do live that seeing people carry a D cell Maglite around in residential neighborhoods?

In the places I've lived (both coasts and in between) they were common in the 80s but pretty much disappeared by 2000. Only people I see who use them these days are cops and security guards. Not even my buddies in the trades have them anymore.

The D cell Maglites are tactical clubs disguised as lights and as I said, raise my suspicion in the same way that a 10" screw driver does. Context is everything.
Click to expand...

I carry a 5 D-cell battery flashlight on a nightly basis and NO it is not for use as a tactical club. It is for use as a flashlight. I have a walking stick that is my tactical club. Hitting someone with your flashlight just leads to a broken bulb and darkness. At that point it's only function becomes a club.

I use a D-cell flashlight, as a flashlight, because the damn thing is indestructible and is still working just as well as when I bought it back in the 80s. If it a'int broke, don't replace it. If someone is such a milktoast that they see a large flashlight as something only to be used as a weapon, then that milktoast needs to go crawl under a rock and pull the world in after them because they are too insecure/immature to function in the real world.

If someone gets offended by my legal use of anything legal, then that offended person can just be offended and they can go p--- up a rope. That includes the use of fixed blade knives. If I care to legally carry a legal fixed blade knife/knives (and I do) and some milktoast gets scared or offended, either because I'm carrying them or, heaven forbid, actually USE THE as designed, well, the said milktoast needs to grow a spine and learn that their lack of a common sense perspective on life is not the rule.
 
Quiet said:
What is the point worthy of consideration? That we should accept that there should be more stringent laws on knives because people like Pinnah think they are primarily weapons and should be regulated as such? That is both wrong and insulting to anyone who actually appreciates knives as the tools they are. Also, please don't attempt to dress me down, that's not going to go well for you. Pinnah is the one who decided to bring Government into this, not me. Get it right, thanks.
Click to expand...

Quiet,

I suspect that you and I agree on more than you might think.

I'm sure we both enjoy knives and treasure our right to own and use them.

I'm very sure we both find some knife regulations to be ill concieved, ineffective and onerous and I'm sure we both don't want to see more bad regulations on knives where they aren't needed.

This said, I'm also pretty sure we're going to need to agree to disagree on how to protect and expand our knife rights.

1) I think it's counter-productive for those wanting to protect knife rights to argue that a democratic society doesn't have the right to regulate dangerous things like knives. It's counter-productive, because that is an utterly absurd radical position. It's frankly nuts. Of course the government has the right to regulate things and arguing to the contrary just make knife lovers sound like radical anti-goverment extremists. We (society) regulate all sort of dangerous materials from fireworks to gasoline to guns to cars and to knives.

2) I think it's counter-productive for knife advocates to argue that knives aren't weapons. That's entirely disconnected from the history of knives and it's not born out by people's experiences or by the FBI statistics. Knives get carried for EDC way, way, way more than other tools like screw drivers and hammers and unlike hammers and screw drivers, knives are designed to cut. So it's no surprise that knives get used as weapons in crimes many, many times more often than "tools". To insist that a knife is merely a tool damages the cause of advocating for knife rights by sticking our heads in the proverbial sand. Society understands what you and those like you deny - knives get used as weapons frequently, much more frequently than tools and blunt objects. IMO, we are much more effective as knife advocates to encourage careful, context aware use of knives to minimize the fear of non-knife users. More succinctly, if you want society to accept a knife as a tool, we should embrace and respect the fact that a knife historically and currently is also a weapon (or potential weapon) and as such, worthy of greater judgement than a hammer or other tool.

I don't expect to change your mind. I suspect you'll be guy cleaning his fingernails on the park bench with his fixed blade. IMO, your arguments make things worse and do nothing but invite more bad regulations.
 
pinnah said:
Society informally and correctly considers knives to be weapons.
Click to expand...

Our society does not.
That is why I can legally walk around with knives, when carrying of weapons is frowned upon by the law quite heavily here.
That is why I was able to help the cute girl in the university library some years back, prying the staple from the papers she needed to photocopy, using my knife (they have a power stapler there, but no staple remover...), and get a smile and a thank you, rather than a scream and the cops being called.

In my world, tools are useful things that make life better (like the walking stick that keeps me upright when my back spasms from time to time).
In some other people's world, tools seem to be scary things that need regulating.
 
pinnah said:
1) I think it's counter-productive for those wanting to protect knife rights to argue that a democratic society doesn't have the right to regulate dangerous things like knives. It's counter-productive, because that is an utterly absurd radical position. It's frankly nuts. Of course the government has the right to regulate things and arguing to the contrary just make knife lovers sound like radical anti-goverment extremists. We (society) regulate all sort of dangerous materials from fireworks to gasoline to guns to cars and to knives.

2) I think it's counter-productive for knife advocates to argue that knives aren't weapons. That's entirely disconnected from the history of knives and it's not born out by people's experiences or by the FBI statistics. Knives get carried for EDC way, way, way more than other tools like screw drivers and hammers and unlike hammers and screw drivers, knives are designed to cut. So it's no surprise that knives get used as weapons in crimes many, many times more often than "tools". To insist that a knife is merely a tool damages the cause of advocating for knife rights by sticking our heads in the proverbial sand. Society understands what you and those like you deny - knives get used as weapons frequently, much more frequently than tools and blunt objects. IMO, we are much more effective as knife advocates to encourage careful, context aware use of knives to minimize the fear of non-knife users. More succinctly, if you want society to accept a knife as a tool, we should embrace and respect the fact that a knife historically and currently is also a weapon (or potential weapon) and as such, worthy of greater judgement than a hammer or other tool.

I don't expect to change your mind. I suspect you'll be guy cleaning his fingernails on the park bench with his fixed blade. IMO, your arguments make things worse and do nothing but invite more bad regulations.
Click to expand...

1. Regulation itself isn't necessarily being argued against, it is more the boundaries that those regulations set that do nothing but inhibit law abiding citizens for no real reasons.

2. I agree with what I have bolded and think that it counters the rest of your paragraph and here is why.
No one has claimed that a knife can't or wont be used as a weapon. It can just like any other sharp or blunt object and that is a fact. However, it is first and foremost a tool. I think that referring to knives as weapons will only highlight that one aspect of their use and encourage unnecessary fear of one our oldest tools. By referring to knives as tools we will do more to enlighten others that they are not an object to be feared, but respected.

Knives of early man split cloth and flesh, which begat the splitting of wood, metal and the atom.
 
Last edited:
pinnah said:
Quiet,

I suspect that you and I agree on more than you might think.

I'm sure we both enjoy knives and treasure our right to own and use them.

I'm very sure we both find some knife regulations to be ill concieved, ineffective and onerous and I'm sure we both don't want to see more bad regulations on knives where they aren't needed.

This said, I'm also pretty sure we're going to need to agree to disagree on how to protect and expand our knife rights.

1) I think it's counter-productive for those wanting to protect knife rights to argue that a democratic society doesn't have the right to regulate dangerous things like knives. It's counter-productive, because that is an utterly absurd radical position. It's frankly nuts. Of course the government has the right to regulate things and arguing to the contrary just make knife lovers sound like radical anti-goverment extremists. We (society) regulate all sort of dangerous materials from fireworks to gasoline to guns to cars and to knives.

2) I think it's counter-productive for knife advocates to argue that knives aren't weapons. That's entirely disconnected from the history of knives and it's not born out by people's experiences or by the FBI statistics. Knives get carried for EDC way, way, way more than other tools like screw drivers and hammers and unlike hammers and screw drivers, knives are designed to cut. So it's no surprise that knives get used as weapons in crimes many, many times more often than "tools". To insist that a knife is merely a tool damages the cause of advocating for knife rights by sticking our heads in the proverbial sand. Society understands what you and those like you deny - knives get used as weapons frequently, much more frequently than tools and blunt objects. IMO, we are much more effective as knife advocates to encourage careful, context aware use of knives to minimize the fear of non-knife users. More succinctly, if you want society to accept a knife as a tool, we should embrace and respect the fact that a knife historically and currently is also a weapon (or potential weapon) and as such, worthy of greater judgement than a hammer or other tool.

I don't expect to change your mind. I suspect you'll be guy cleaning his fingernails on the park bench with his fixed blade. IMO, your arguments make things worse and do nothing but invite more bad regulations.
Click to expand...

You should post up your facts and source. FBI and justice reports, 2010, say that blunt object and "other weapon" were used in almost 1000 more murders than knives. Meaning the list goes gun/blunt object other/ then knife. You seem to just be spouting on falsehoods. You can find the actual information on the FBIs supplemental homicide reports. As well as the bureau of justice website. And perhaps you could enlighten me as to the source of your history lesson on knives. I daresay over 85% (a number I pull out of my butt)of knives are designed for something other than killing and maiming humans. So they are being used in a way not intended by the manufacturer. Like hammers. Or a pipe wrench or a baseball bat.
I'm not picking on you. I just think you are lying. Or have been given false information. And hate to see it passed on.
 
Last edited:
I just don't want to be restricted because others can't seem to enjoy the same hobbies I do as responsibly as I do.

I don't hurt people with my knives. Or my guns. Or my cars. Or my hammers. I don't want to pay a price for others who do. People who misuse their possessions and freedoms should pay the price, not those of us who are responsible with them.

Why can't we be tough on crime and relaxed with the law-abiding? If someone misuses a knife, throw the book at them. Don't let them off with probation and community service and then try to restrict my knife use. I didn't do anything wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
ichor said:
Oh goody. Everyone listen up and pay close attention. A guy with multiple degrees! :eek:
Click to expand...
Nah. Don't listen to those intellectual elitists in their earth quake resistant ivory towers probably in California.
 
Last edited:
stabman said:
Our society does not.
That is why I can legally walk around with knives, when carrying of weapons is frowned upon by the law quite heavily here.
That is why I was able to help the cute girl in the university library some years back, prying the staple from the papers she needed to photocopy, using my knife (they have a power stapler there, but no staple remover...), and get a smile and a thank you, rather than a scream and the cops being called.

In my world, tools are useful things that make life better (like the walking stick that keeps me upright when my back spasms from time to time).
In some other people's world, tools seem to be scary things that need regulating.
Click to expand...

Since we're giving them out now, I'll give you an...Amen ! :D
And just think if they were overregulated. You may not have had another tool that could've gave that cute girl a smile.
 
Thefinaledge said:
You should post up your facts and source. FBI and justice reports, 2010, say that blunt object and "other weapon" were used in almost 1000 more murders than knives. Meaning the list goes gun/blunt object other/ then knife. You seem to just be spouting on falsehoods. You can find the actual information on the FBIs supplemental homicide reports. As well as the bureau of justice website. And perhaps you could enlighten me as to the source of your history lesson on knives. I daresay over 85% (a number I pull out of my butt)of knives are designed for something other than killing and maiming humans. So they are being used in a way not intended by the manufacturer. Like hammers. Or a pipe wrench or a baseball bat.
I'm not picking on you. I just think you are lying. Or have been given false information. And hate to see it passed on.
Click to expand...

Final edge, I would be curious to see your sources too as there are definitely facts to be reconciled.

Here are the posted FBI stats from 2010 to 2014. Year to year, the numbers are reverse of what you claim. Year to year, knives are used 3 times more often (over 1000 more incindents) than blunt objects (such as hammers and other tools).

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls
 
pinnah said:
Final edge, I would be curious to see your sources too as there are definitely facts to be reconciled.

Here are the posted FBI stats from 2010 to 2014. Year to year, the numbers are reverse of what you claim. Year to year, knives are used 3 times more often (over 1000 more incindents) than blunt objects (such as hammers and other tools).

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls
Click to expand...

We get it. You hate knives. Why are you here?
 
Ken44 said:
Since we're giving them out now, I'll give you an...Amen ! :D
And just think if they were overregulated. You may not have had another tool that could've gave that cute girl a smile.
Click to expand...

Did you intend to disparage stabman's natural tools ? Surely that is my misunderstanding of your meaning or has this thread achieved new lows ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------tear here !
An earlier post stated, in a fashion that sounded like sincere belief, that all fixed blade and lock blades are primarily weapons .

That gave me a moment of culture shock ! I suddenly understood that it could be possible to have this view if someone's cultural background and environment were alien enough to mine .

I grew up in the midwest USA rural agricultural ,forestry and semi wilderness outdoor recreation areas in the 1950's. Every kind of bladed tool was so ubiquitous that they were taken for granted .

But what if you grew up with little or no exposure to blades as commonplace normal innocent tools . Your main exposure to fixed blade and locking knives (some-places both illegal to carry concealed ) might be from entertainment media . I can see how you could believe that the main purpose of these knives is horrid , vile , sneaky and shockingly barbaric violence of all sorts . Just like in most media I've seen .

Even the old westerns I grew up with . If a knife appeared it meant a murder , a fight , and probably a scalping for good measure ! What if that kind of sensationalistic crapola was all you ever knew about knives?
 
pinnah said:
Final edge, I would be curious to see your sources too as there are definitely facts to be reconciled.

Here are the posted FBI stats from 2010 to 2014. Year to year, the numbers are reverse of what you claim. Year to year, knives are used 3 times more often (over 1000 more incindents) than blunt objects (such as hammers and other tools).

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls
Click to expand...
Remembering that knife also includes scissors and any other cutting implement, and combining blunt with " other" as stabbings don't fall under "blunt" but " other when they don't involve a knife,

CORRECTION ( im completely incorrect here, the knife catagory on the lists include glass, screwdrivers and anything stabby or cutty you use to stab or cut further muddying the waters for actual knife data)CORRECTION

your wrong. 2010 blunt and other, exactly as I stated, almost a 1000 more than knife.
Chart copied and can be found at http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp

Homicides by Weapon Type


Handgun. Other gun. Knif . Blunt. Other
1976 8,651 3,328 3,343 912 2,546
1977 8,563 3,391 3,648 900 2,618
1978 8,879 3,569 3,685 937 2,490
1979 9,858 3,732 4,121 1,039 2,710
1980 10,552 3,834 4,439 1,153 3,061
1981 10,324 3,740 4,364 1,166 2,927
1982 9,137 3,501 4,383 1,032 2,957
1983 8,472 2,794 4,214 1,098 2,731
1984 8,183 2,835 3,956 1,090 2,626
1985 8,165 2,973 3,996 1,051 2,794
1986 9,054 3,126 4,235 1,176 3,018
1987 8,781 3,094 4,076 1,169 2,980
1988 9,375 3,162 3,978 1,296 2,869
1989 10,225 3,197 3,923 1,279 2,877
1990 11,677 3,395 4,077 1,254 3,037
1991 13,101 3,277 3,909 1,252 3,161
1992 13,158 3,043 3,447 1,088 3,024
1993 13,981 3,094 3,140 1,082 3,233
1994 13,496 2,840 2,960 963 3,071
1995 12,050 2,679 2,731 981 3,169
1996 10,731 2,533 2,691 917 2,777
1997 9,705 2,631 2,363 833 2,678
1998 8,844 2,168 2,257 896 2,805
1999 7,943 2,174 2,042 902 2,461
2000 7,985 2,218 2,099 727 2,556
2001 7,900 2,239 2,090 776 3,032
2002 8,286 2,538 2,018 773 2,588
2003 8,830 2,223 2,085 745 2,645
2004 8,304 2,357 2,133 759 2,595
2005 8,478 2,868 2,147 671 2,528
2006 7,836 2,389 1,989 656 2,367
2007 7,398 2,731 1,923 665 2,444
2008 6,800 2,728 1,888 676 2,432
2009 6,501 2,698 1,836 667 2,220
2010 6,009 2,766 1,842 600 2,157


"FBI and justice reports, 2010, say that blunt object and "other weapon" were used in almost 1000 more murders than knives."
This was my claim in post 507 in case you need to see it again.
 
Last edited:
This thread has certainly taken some interesting turns.:)

I carry a knife in my pocket at all times. The pocket clip is visible for anyone to see, and when I need to cut something, I get it out & use it. So far, nobody's ever run away screaming hysterically.

.......and, I'm outta here!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top