How sustainable is CRKT's business model?

[Mo2]

I got into knives primarily due to a Ken Onion CRKT knife so I don't see why to talk bad about CRKT. They make a good product that can be found and purchased at a reasonable price I would say. I find that CRKT prices compete evenly with Kershaw so I don't think CRKT's price is terribly out of line.

CRKT should make two lines of knives. budget and midrange. whatever they call midrange currently is budget. people want those designs that they make budget knives but they want better materials. if they have a crkt premium lineup this will solve that problem. else were stuck with mass produced Junk. they dont even have to use the super steel for this linup, Ruike for instance is using sandvik steel. heck even 154cm will be good enough in this premium for crkt. just being hopful. but they want to profit more than make all people happy.

if you had the choice between Chinese made knives from CRKT or Kershaw, which has better quality overall (note the quality is bad on both, but is one marginally better than the other?)

 

[Jisatsu]

I really like that CRKT is constantly looking at ways to innovate the knife industry by bringing in different designers and pricing them at affordable rates. But the OP is right, there are plenty of other makers producing great products for less.

 

[Murindo]

Quite frankly, even though I carry expensive EDC's, the old standby CRKT Crawford Kasper will do everything I need a folder to do.

 

[craytab]

Crkt is not on par with its competitors in terms of price, materials, and fit/finish or quality control. This has been the case for years and I don't see it changing. Most people who buy knives don't know about this and likely don't care. I don't see that changing either. So that said, they will be fine. However, they will never attain the status of the common quality companies we talk about here because of their model.

 

[brownshoe]

CRKT is not about status. For much of their line, it's about using knives for the people who need them. For many CRKT products, it's about unique designs, for those that find knife designs intriguing but don't have deep pockets. All in all CRKT knives are a good buy and that's why they have lasted close to 25 years.

Carrying knives for status won't really get you status points (unless you live on these forums) since everyone knows a BMW is a status item, but nobody but a knifeknut knows squat about Rockstead.

I have one CRKT higher end knife, the Eros, great design, good fit/finish, Ti liners, flipper, boutique steel. So they can do it when they want to

When it comes to price, many companies (e.g. Spyderco, Benchmade) have increased their prices in the last few years.

 

[Mo2]

I have one CRKT higher end knife, the Eros, great design, good fit/finish, Ti liners, flipper, boutique steel. So they can do it when they want to

The eros is there only good knife imho.

I don't carry knives for status I carry them to use and higher end steel is better, less sharpening and keeps an edge forever when you need it. 8cr won't last 40 cuts through rope, it's pretty horrible choice of steel. with diamonds and SiC, even the higher carbide steel is faster to sharpen. SiC stones are affordable too.

 

[craytab]

CRKT is not about status. For much of their line, it's about using knives for the people who need them. For many CRKT products, it's about unique designs, for those that find knife designs intriguing but don't have deep pockets. All in all CRKT knives are a good buy and that's why they have lasted close to 25 years.

Carrying knives for status won't really get you status points (unless you live on these forums) since everyone knows a BMW is a status item, but nobody but a knifeknut knows squat about Rockstead.

I have one CRKT higher end knife, the Eros, great design, good fit/finish, Ti liners, flipper, boutique steel. So they can do it when they want to

When it comes to price, many companies (e.g. Spyderco, Benchmade) have increased their prices in the last few years.

I don't buy knives for status either. That seems to be something people say when an unpopular brand they like gets called out. Kind of like the tired "I use my knives" argument. People should be suspicious when they here such things.

And as for price, I can do better from other companies with better materials and better ff/qc. That has been my experience with every crkt I have owned and when I just look at them on paper. I'm not paying what they are asking when competitors offer a similar product at a lower price with no crkt baggage.

Let's also not forget that crkt doesn't even make anything nor design much. They are mostly a marketing company. That is what they are good at and it is certainly working for them. But for folks who know about knives and what else is out there, they are far from a top choice. We are not their market, and that's fine.

 

[ThePeacent]

For many CRKT products, it's about unique designs, for those that find knife designs intriguing but don't have deep pockets.

that is the reason for me. I would've never paid the price for a real John Williams knife, or an Alan Folts, I don't have that kind of money and couldn't risk it if I didn't like the design.

But I could have a taste with the Minimalist and the Hissatsu, both makers got a part of that money and I was satisfied with my purchase, as both designs lend themselves to be excellent users (Minimalist) with easy to maintain steel and basic but time proven materials, or great purpose driven tools (Hissatsu) with the proper tolerances, adequate materials and reliable construction.

 

[craytab]

I think of crkt as a greater risk than laying down a little more coin for a more reliable product. I had the hissatsu and it would not stay in the sheath. Totally unreliable and unusable for its intended purpose. Same with the shinbu which is not an inexpensive knife. The hissatsu folder I had would not open with the torsion bar installed because of a well known design flaw. Luckily it was a good manual knife or it would have been an epic fail. Those are just a few of many first hand experiences with Crkt's problems.

Crkt for me equals expensive for what you get and the materials used, poor quality control, poor fit and finish, poor execution of what could be great designs, and a huge risk for if you will get a good one. There are plenty of other companies I have not had any of these problems with.

 

[PURPLEDC]

CRKT should make two lines of knives. budget and midrange. whatever they call midrange currently is budget. people want those designs that they make budget knives but they want better materials. if they have a crkt premium lineup this will solve that problem. else were stuck with mass produced Junk. they dont even have to use the super steel for this linup, Ruike for instance is using sandvik steel. heck even 154cm will be good enough in this premium for crkt. just being hopful. but they want to profit more than make all people happy.

if you had the choice between Chinese made knives from CRKT or Kershaw, which has better quality overall (note the quality is bad on both, but is one marginally better than the other?)

Totally agree. if they offered even lower end premium materials id be happy. I dont even mi d they do mstly steel handles. But rather i just dislike the steel tey use for the handle as

CRKT is not about status. For much of their line, it's about using knives for the people who need them. For many CRKT products, it's about unique designs, for those that find knife designs intriguing but don't have deep pockets. All in all CRKT knives are a good buy and that's why they have lasted close to 25 years.

Carrying knives for status won't really get you status points (unless you live on these forums) since everyone knows a BMW is a status item, but nobody but a knifeknut knows squat about Rockstead.

I have one CRKT higher end knife, the Eros, great design, good fit/finish, Ti liners, flipper, boutique steel. So they can do it when they want to

When it comes to price, many companies (e.g. Spyderco, Benchmade) have increased their prices in the last few years.

I dont carry anything for status. I just think crkt has poor pricing considering the materials. Even the execution of their existing materials is spotty. And yeah those other brands may have increased prices but they also use the materials and the fit and finish to justify those increases. As for the eros, I wouldnt consider 440 acuto a boutique steel.

 

[Lapedog]

I suspect alot of sales are none other than the m16 and m21.

I understand the question though as in how can CRKT sell China quality knives for such a markup. They have some nice models though too like the skeletonized titanium Eros.

 

[WValtakis]

For many CRKT products, it's about unique designs, for those that find knife designs intriguing but don't have deep pockets.

Exactly, the only CRKT's I own are the Ed Van Hoy designs...bought because the originals are way out of my league. But as a collector of weird/unique mechanisms I definitely needed to have examples of those designs.

~Chip

 

[emjay4248]

When I started collecting I started buying inexpensive knives. They were 100 times better than gas station, or hardware store knives. The two companies that I started out buying Kershaws and CRKT. I find that after a while the Kershaw's started looking all the same I started. I think the nice thing about CRKT's is that they have so many different styles which costs alot of money to do. I find CRKT's are more fun to collect because more of the diversity of styles. I did it for a while and then got my first Spyderco. In order to afford them I had to sell all my Kershaw's and CRKT's among others. Once I stated collecting Spyderco's it was off to the races. I still have other knives Like 2 Kershaw Blurs that I just couldn't give up.

 

[Danke42]

I suspect there's more than a few makers in the knife biz that wish they had CKRT's business model. Sure it's nice to sell a $12 000.00 "prototype" once a year but when you ship 120 000 knives that make you $10-20 each; well that 's a lot better.

 

[sabre cat]

CRKT will be fine. Most of the people that purchase their products don't even know about companies like Benchmade or Spyderco.

Personally, I don't care for most of CRKT's offerings in today's market. The few I do care for are not priced correctly, IMO. If they would just do a better job on their HT and QC, things would be OK. Maybe they would gain back some of the reputation they used to have.

But, if CRKT decides to up their game on materials, it could hurt them. Most of their buyer's look for a certain price point and making that jump could push customers to a different brand. We have been seeing that with Benchmade (for different reasons) the past few years. If they stopped using anything lower than AUS 8 they should be OK but jumping to 154cm could be a little much.

Now, if CRKT split their product line into different companies, like KAI did with Kershaw and ZT, offering better products under a different name, it should work very well. Just don't mention CRKT's name with the new company until they are well established, if ever. Look at how many people were turned off by their name on a LionSteel product.

 

[number9]

I own a few CRKTs. They hooked me with interesting, good looking designs (not to be confused with engineering) at an acceptable price. I don't buy them anymore, but I'm a little more informed now, and willing to spend a little more. For most people, they are still miles ahead of the "average" folding knife.

 

[brownshoe]

I own a few CRKTs. They hooked me with interesting, good looking designs (not to be confused with engineering) at an acceptable price. I don't buy them anymore, but I'm a little more informed now, and willing to spend a little more. For most people, they are still miles ahead of the "average" folding knife.

I agree, and I'd buy them when the knife trips my trigger. That's why I got the Eros. One different design I had was their Bud Nealy Pesh Kabaz folder, still pissed I lost it. Not a perfect feat of engineering or design, but fun, functional and worth the $24 I paid for it. Won't see anthing like it from other companies. For example, Spyderco does some unique work, but at their prices many don't want to risk trying one out.

 

[jbmonkey]

yep.

i like crkt designers angle. nice to see great designs at a production level, but......

their price point is too high and materials and fit and finish needs to be better.

seems their model is working even though i prefer what i already said from them.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I suspect there's more than a few makers in the knife biz that wish they had CKRT's business model. Sure it's nice to sell a $12 000.00 "prototype" once a year but when you ship 120 000 knives that make you $10-20 each; well that 's a lot better.

Yeah but if you are selling 24,000 knives a year and making $100 a piece you make the same amount of money doing less work. Id rather have that business model. I doubt many makers are envious of doing more work for the same profits. But if you are CRKT and don't actually make anything its sort of a hard argument to have either way.

 

[Vinifera]

Just curious. Compared to other manufacturers using primarily 8Cr13Mov and AUS-8 steel like Kershaw, CRKT is often significantly pricier than the competition, and I bet a huge portion of the costs is made up of payments to and agreements with their collaborators like Ken Onion, since CRKT do not have any in-house designers.

So what happens when the designers finally decide to leave CRKT? And how much longer can CRKT keep this up before they finally price themselves out of the average working person's (i.e.: non-enthusiast) budget?

I dunno, I'm not privy to their income statement, balance sheet and related financial, contractual obligations and other similar proprietary data. I could speculate until the cows come home but that would just be rank speculation without any facts. Consequently I won't bore the fine members here with my speculation or assumptions which frankly would be worthless.