How sustainable is CRKT's business model?

[Hackenslash]

I almost bought a guardian angel at the Chicago custom knife show about 10 years ago. I was an idiot and passed thinking I would have an opportunity to buy another. Not only did I never find another but I would never have found one for the $750 being asked for it. It had exceptional fit and finish. The action was the first knife I ever handled with that guillotine drop action you find on many current flippers. What amazed me the most was that for a completely handmade knife It had precision and looks of a superlative CNC machined knife.

Nice, I keep hoping Ikoma will collaborate with WE, but I'm getting off topic...

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

That is such an awesome looking knife. It makes me wonder what a full custom Flavio Ikoma must feel like. Mine is the older one with the small blade and the orange/black G10. This is definitely a knife that would benefit from a production custom version with upgraded materials!

This knife is actually a clone... No CRKT markings, and much more cheaply made. But I do agree, a version of the Fossil using even CPM154 would be cool.

 

[Etna]

I don't follow things as close as some, but it seems that CRKT follow the market faster than some others. SOG seems to have struggled for a while to really find where they fit, Gerber is very conservative, but CRKT seems to push new stuff and drop it if it doesn't get traction. Which may be why they will continue to do fine, for every lemon, they have a winner, and the lemons don't drag the winners down since they will likely look very different, where as Gerber and SOG both really seem to stick to having all their knives identifiable within the design language even if they don't slather them in branding. Dunno, I'm not a marketing expert, but evidence would suggest that if your marketing is good enough, might be all you need.

Not sure if I agree with Gerber being conservative. They just recently came out with a bunch of new folders that look nothing like their previous designs.

I've always admired the innovation that CRKT puts into some of it's designs. Things like the Rollock, Fulcrum and the Snap Lock are a blast to look at and play with. No other mainstream production company takes as many risks as CRKT. Yes, the sum of materials and workmanship rarely match the price, but that in and of itself isn't a recipe for disaster. I think CRKT will continue to do fine so long as the brick and mortar stores survive against on-line shopping.

Something to consider about CRKT: they've yet to become the target of the rampant cloning taking place overseas. Spyderco faces a strong challenge from clone knives that are 75% of Spyderco quality at 25% of the price. There are some truly excellent titanium framelock flippers that are getting up in ZTs face, some clones and some original designs. The interwebs abound with cloned Benchmades and Axis lock rip-offs. Other than some really crappy M16 type clones, CRKT has remained mostly uncopied. If you want a CRKT Fossil, you pretty much have to go buy a Fossil.

Eventually these clones may inadvertently hurt CRKT. Maybe they already have. When you can buy a genuine CRKT for $40 at Bass Pro or a nice PM2 clone for $40 online, eventually those clones will leach sales away from CRKT. As long as the brick and mortars survive with their need for recognizable brand images in blister packs, CRKT should be fine. The same could probably be said for Gerber. For now, at least, the brick and mortar retailers can't risk bringing in a clone or a counterfeit for fear of loosing their distribution rights with mainstream manufacturers.

Online shopping pays less homage to brand image recognition. That's where the clones and the no-name brands enjoy the most success.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go order a Fulcrum 2.

Why would you link CRKT's success to the survival of traditional retail shops vs online shopping? If a design is nice and tickles someone's fancy, people are going to click on that large 'Add to cart' button regardless of whether they have a chance to feel it physically first before making a decision.

420hc is superior in edge retention over 8cr13mov and 420hc bos heat treat is even better. this has been proven in cut testing. now with that said... what other aspect do you think is Superior in 8cr13mov?

here is just one test from one individual.
View attachment 736638

Just curious, but what do the numbers on the right mean?

 

[Vinifera]

Great anecdotal posts about steel and other things. Same thing with the business model of CRKT. Perhaps the OP should have run a poll and asked for votes.

Is the CRKT business model sustainable?
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. How in the hell would I know.

Based on the poll results the true, objective results are declared and we all now know the answer.

Same thing with the steel arguments. Set up a poll and based on the poll results a winner is declared. I'm glad my physician, dentist or even my auto mechanic doesn't determine his or her "treatment" based on polls and anecdotal "evidence" but for some reason on a forum such an analysis is acceptable and the "gospel". Sheesh.

 

[Etna]

(The multi-quote feature is a real lifesaver )

CRKT knives are designed for guys and gals who are rough with their knives (I don't necessarily mean so-called "hard use" but rather "rough use") and frequently blunt the edges by contacting them with stuff that will dull any knife. Mechanics, contractors, plumbers, people who just play hard, etc. They don't think twice about how they care for their knives, but they're proud enough of their tools to want something cool that isn't total garbage. Since these knives will routinely be blunted no matter what you make them out of, ease of sharpening takes a high priority and so softer steels are the ideal. Most aren't even ever going to sharpen them, but for those who do it makes sense to make it easy to do because they'll be doing it a lot, and probably not with the highest proficiency. They're great knives for that very large market sector.

Bottom line is we're not really their market for the most part, other than juuuust enough intersectionality to rope us in on certain models. Their market is the average joe who buys a knife because it looks neat and feels way more solid than a jarbenza.

But that market sector is also heavily overcrowded today. At the budget end, you have Taylor...sorry, BTI Tools making up the $10 - $20 range with their S&W and Schrade folders, which are surprisingly reliable and well-built for the price. Go up a little more on the price ladder and there is Gerber, which, for all the flak they are getting for selling $30 - $50 knives with 7cr17 and 5Cr13 steel, are also very usable and robust (i would know, since I just bought a bunch of 12 new Gerbers).

And that's not even taking into consideration Chinese brands like SanRenMu which sell knives with 8cr13Mov and 12C27 blades for as low as $7 - $10.

 

[PURPLEDC]

This knife is actually a clone... No CRKT markings, and much more cheaply made. But I do agree, a version of the Fossil using even CPM154 would be cool.

Holy crap. At first i didnt think a clone of the blue ones existed. I seriously saw that picture and thought someone did a diy mod on an un related knife. My lord that is bad.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

(The multi-quote feature is a real lifesaver )





But that market sector is also heavily overcrowded today. At the budget end, you have Taylor...sorry, BTI Tools making up the $10 - $20 range with their S&W and Schrade folders, which are surprisingly reliable and well-built for the price. Go up a little more on the price ladder and there is Gerber, which, for all the flak they are getting for selling $30 - $50 knives with 7cr17 and 5Cr13 steel, are also very usable and robust (i would know, since I just bought a bunch of 12 new Gerbers).

And that's not even taking into consideration Chinese brands like SanRenMu which sell knives with 8cr13Mov and 12C27 blades for as low as $7 - $10.

Yeah but that's kind of the point. These folks are NOT wanting to buy the $20 knives, but are largely uninformed buyers. The novelty/"cool" factor has a high priority with them. Steel? Not so much. So novel mechanisms and flashy, but not tacky (or at least less so) designs take the priority. You'll notice that most of the designers they partner with are known for their distinctive aesthetic flair. Ken Onion, Brian Tighe, Liong Mah, Allen Elishewitz...and so on. Very visually, aesthetically driven designs.

 

[Vinifera]

I don't own nor have I ever purchased a CRKT product. Five pages (and counting) of posts. I have yet to see an answer to the question as to whether the CRKT business model is sustainable. Lots and lots of personal opinions and conjecture about what knife buyers, including what the average Joe wants and observations about steel, designs, etc. but in the end does anyone, other than through an uninformed personal opinion, have an answer? I didn't think so.

 

[whp]

I don't own nor have I ever purchased a CRKT product. Five pages (and counting) of posts. I have yet to see an answer to the question as to whether the CRKT business model is sustainable. Lots and lots of personal opinions and conjecture about what knife buyers, including what the average Joe wants and observations about steel, designs, etc. but in the end does anyone, other than through an uninformed personal opinion, have an answer? I didn't think so.

That was a question that can t be answered. Only time will tell. Everything else is just opinion. Just like a lot of threads in these forums.
It s interesting to read others opinions.

 

[jeffsenpai]

CRKT does hit the right spot in the marketplace in my opinion. I love and appreciate knives, I own and have owned knives in the $100+ range, $200+ range, and $300+ range. But still, when it comes to a day to day knife purchase for the collection, I almost always get something sub $100. The real sweet spot is around the ~$60 price. CRKT is right in this range. Each year they come out with some great designs, the crossbones will likely be my next pickup. I never planned on building a CRKT collection on purpose, it is just as time has gone on and I aquire new knives, it turns out many of the designs I come across happen to be CRKT. I would not consider myself a fanboy necessarily, as I do not like every knife they come out with (the deviation). Some are nasty in my opinion. But good knives, all fun to play with and carry.

Family pic:

 

[Mo2]

Who's Chinese knives are better, Kershaw or crkt? I guess we can say as a whole or in different aspects (design, prices, quality etc).
Then let's throw boker into the mix after that.

Do these 3 use the same factories at all?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

They've been following the same model for many years now. There's been some changes to materials, yes, but their model hasn't really shifted significantly.

 

[RevDevil]

As above. Just curious. Compared to other manufacturers using primarily 8Cr13Mov and AUS-8 steel like Kershaw, CRKT is often significantly pricier than the competition, and I bet a huge portion of the costs is made up of payments to and agreements with their collaborators like Ken Onion, since CRKT do not have any in-house designers.

So what happens when the designers finally decide to leave CRKT? And how much longer can CRKT keep this up before they finally price themselves out of the average working person's (i.e.: non-enthusiast) budget?

Didn't read the whole thread, but....Most people are NOT knife enthusiasts. Most people own 1 or no pocket knives. The items you see for sale with Titanium, carbon fiber, high end steel is not for your casual Wal-Mart shopper or Bass Pro occasional tire kicker. As far as business models are concerned, CRKT seems to be doing alright, they have more designers than any other company that I can think of. They have a giant list of all their designers. They aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. They got Ken Onion designing all kinds of cool knives, albeit in less than awesome steel. The knife world has a ton of market specific audiences. Each company tends to target a specific market. The people that buy a knife at Wal-Mart are not going to drop $450 on a Hinderer as their first knife, that is just unheard of for the non-enthusiast. The budget level knives are what sell and allow the companies to make teh higher end limited edition models with super steels and fancy handle materials. It becomes clearer as you learn more about the industry and hobby. I don't know all the ins and outs of the cutlery world's corporate structures, but you learn as you go and as you read and talk with those that are running the businesses. It just takes time to learn.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Not sure if I agree with Gerber being conservative. They just recently came out with a bunch of new folders that look nothing like their previous designs.

Fair enough, as I said, not following it close. Most likely pretty wrong in this case, but its just how I read them.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I don't own nor have I ever purchased a CRKT product. Five pages (and counting) of posts. I have yet to see an answer to the question as to whether the CRKT business model is sustainable. Lots and lots of personal opinions and conjecture about what knife buyers, including what the average Joe wants and observations about steel, designs, etc. but in the end does anyone, other than through an uninformed personal opinion, have an answer? I didn't think so.

This is a forum. Pretty much everything on the forum is personal opinion. Or at least every answer is effected by personal opinion. But that doesn't mean anyone is incapable of being correct. Even scientists disagree on many subjects and those guys are supposed to know more than most. And they simply have opinions too.

 

[Vinifera]

I agree an opinion can never be false or "wrong" because it is simply an opinion. Opinions are thus not of any use to establish a fact. A scientific hypothesis can be determined to be false based on testing at which point it becomes invalid or conversely it can be determined to be valid and accepted as a scientific fact. In any event carry on with the thread.

 

[Northwest Knives]

Absolutely they will be around for a long time. It has been said here many times....the average knife buyer buys what he likes based on look and feel. The average knife buyer could care less about steels, lock mechanism, teflon washers blah...blah...blah.... They just don't. The problem that many of us have is that we know too much and think that everyone else cares as much as we do. Think of that friend that comes over and starts telling you that long story about his stamp collecting hobby....your eyes eventually glaze over. Same thing happens to our friends when we start discussing all the knife intricacies that we know.

That all being said...I believe in my opinion (trust me....I am an expert on my opinion) that they will be just fine. Lower end , lower priced knives sell by the millions and then subsequently get lost and destroyed by the millions only to be repurchased again by the millions. It is practically what keeps EBAY alive.

 

[Dfunk1210]

Who's Chinese knives are better, Kershaw or crkt? I guess we can say as a whole or in different aspects (design, prices, quality etc).
Then let's throw boker into the mix after that.

Do these 3 use the same factories at all?

There was a time when I could say hands down Kershaw's China models are better than Crkt's. But models like the Fossil, Outrage, Buku, Walmart Ripple, Tighe Rade, and Deviation show that CRKT can make a decent import. Meanwhile, Kershaw is going cheap on materials and really their current import models models have sharply declined since 2014.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Who's Chinese knives are better, Kershaw or crkt? I guess we can say as a whole or in different aspects (design, prices, quality etc).
Then let's throw boker into the mix after that.

Do these 3 use the same factories at all?

Im not positive, but i do think there is some factory overlap with the three brands. The knife that really reminded me of a crkt in all categories was the diskin designed strobe. But its just a hunch of mine.

 

[Dfunk1210]

I don't own nor have I ever purchased a CRKT product. Five pages (and counting) of posts. I have yet to see an answer to the question as to whether the CRKT business model is sustainable. Lots and lots of personal opinions and conjecture about what knife buyers, including what the average Joe wants and observations about steel, designs, etc. but in the end does anyone, other than through an uninformed personal opinion, have an answer? I didn't think so.

Why wouldn't CRKT be sustainable? They will always sell 1000s more knives than the higher end brands. When the average joe goes to the big box store or their local sporting goods store, they will see a recognizable brand that commands a higher price than your average offered UZI, Mtech or Ozark Trail and perceive a higher quality knife. They wont come to Bladeforums and ask what we think of CRKT. Meanwhile, they look at the $60 knife next to the crkt and think that is too rich for their blood. Truth is that collectors and enthusiasts are a minority in any market. You ever see ZT, Benchmade, and $100+ Spydercos at a Walmart store? No, because that is not what the mass market buys. I'll tell you right now that every brand is tempted at some point to sell out and rake in that mass market cash. And that is because it is the *most* sustainable business model.