Matthew Gregory
Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
- Messages
- 6,725
I really don't know why I'm posting this, as the ones that most desperately need to read it are going to handily dismiss it - it's been proven again and again that this is how it works. I'm hoping, however, that maybe - just maybe - a new maker will read this, and perhaps it will get them to critically consider the advice or instruction they've observed here, and understand how the internet has a magical way of attributing mastery to folks that probably don't deserve it.
Over the course of the years I've participated in the ShopTalk area, I've seen a lot of faces come and go. Some of them leaving were a good thing, or perhaps for the best, while others are a sore loss to this community. Many left in frustration, and part of the reason for their exit is an obvious one: credibility. There's a disturbing trend here that seems to allow for voices to crowd the stage that have EVERYTHING to say, on damn near any topic, without ever providing a single shred of proof, even when asked for it - nicely, or not.
Here are some of my thoughts. I'm sure many will dismiss them, as it appears they ALWAYS dismiss outside information, but perhaps this will allow newer folks to ponder a bit on WHO they're accepting their information from.
If you're suggesting that you have an improved process for something, provide an example. An actual, real-life, concrete EXAMPLE of what you're talking about. I genuinely don't give a shit if you've done something for x number of years - that in itself isn't proof of anything. I've known my fair share of assholes that have done it WRONG for forty years, and the only thing this demonstrates is their inability to accept better information, or perhaps shows an ignorance beyond my comprehension. It CERTAINLY does not imply mastery! If your work is displayed for all to see, the public can decide for themselves whether or not your position is worth any merit. The same holds true for everyone, btw - I'm not just pointing a finger at the 'old regime'. Just the opposite, in fact - some of the guys I'm seeing with the biggest opinions are new makers!!!
Explain yourself in detail. If you're making a claim, the onus falls upon you to explain your claim. To quote the Marquis de Laplace, "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness." If you can't manage to state HOW you're doing something, how the heck can you expect anyone to take you seriously? WHY should anyone take you seriously?
This isn't about any single, specific incident. In fact, I see countless examples of what I'm talking about right now in ShopTalk on the first page of threads. It's not about heat treat, or grinding, or who makes the best machine, or the best finishing technique, or who drove the best goddamn car this morning - it's about ALL of these things.
Too often I see guys answering questions on here with bold positions. Some of them are guys that I can't find a single example of work from. How the hell is that even possible?!?!?!?! There are some GIANTS that provide information with examples of their work darn near everywhere, and I've witnessed THEIR statements trampled by yahoos that haven't once ever proven that they can do anything other than 'talk the talk'. There are guys that have thousands and thousands of posts - in a few cases, more posts than Spark. You know, Spark - the guy that owns Bladeforums. Many of these guys have yet to post a single good example of their work - something that would allow for a degree of scrutiny, showing the details they claim to maintain. How can this be?
I understand that there are some guys here that intentionally post under pseudonyms, as it liberates them to say things that perhaps might cause trouble for their real existence. I get it. There's few enough of them, or perhaps even guys that aren't knifemakers but that have great input, for their participation to be accepted and weighed as it will. The rest of us should offer the ShopTalk community a bit of respect and PROVE that you do what you say, or perhaps consider refraining from offering an opinion until you CAN make your point with an example.
My goal isn't to dissuade people from sharing - just the opposite! I WANT you to share your work!!!! I WANT you to show who you are!!!! The critical thing here, though, is to explain how and why you do something, and show what the results are. ALL OF US benefit when you do. The best input from folks usually starts with "this may or may not be the right way, but this is how I do it" - then they SHOW how they do it. I'm not asked to take anyone's word for it. I wouldn't expect anyone to take my word for anything, either.
I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. In fact, I'm about twelve or thirteen years into this ride, and the longer I continue the less I realize I understand. What I do understand, though, is just how much bullshit is allowed to propagate from people that regurgitate what they've heard, as if it's what they've achieved. Maybe they have! I couldn't say - they've never provided proof. Even when asked for it. Suspicious, no?
It's up to the individual to decide what he reads here is right or not, or whether the information they've found is credible, but it should be up to the provider of information to exemplify what they're promoting. I wonder why more people don't insist on this...
Over the course of the years I've participated in the ShopTalk area, I've seen a lot of faces come and go. Some of them leaving were a good thing, or perhaps for the best, while others are a sore loss to this community. Many left in frustration, and part of the reason for their exit is an obvious one: credibility. There's a disturbing trend here that seems to allow for voices to crowd the stage that have EVERYTHING to say, on damn near any topic, without ever providing a single shred of proof, even when asked for it - nicely, or not.
Here are some of my thoughts. I'm sure many will dismiss them, as it appears they ALWAYS dismiss outside information, but perhaps this will allow newer folks to ponder a bit on WHO they're accepting their information from.
If you're suggesting that you have an improved process for something, provide an example. An actual, real-life, concrete EXAMPLE of what you're talking about. I genuinely don't give a shit if you've done something for x number of years - that in itself isn't proof of anything. I've known my fair share of assholes that have done it WRONG for forty years, and the only thing this demonstrates is their inability to accept better information, or perhaps shows an ignorance beyond my comprehension. It CERTAINLY does not imply mastery! If your work is displayed for all to see, the public can decide for themselves whether or not your position is worth any merit. The same holds true for everyone, btw - I'm not just pointing a finger at the 'old regime'. Just the opposite, in fact - some of the guys I'm seeing with the biggest opinions are new makers!!!
Explain yourself in detail. If you're making a claim, the onus falls upon you to explain your claim. To quote the Marquis de Laplace, "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness." If you can't manage to state HOW you're doing something, how the heck can you expect anyone to take you seriously? WHY should anyone take you seriously?
This isn't about any single, specific incident. In fact, I see countless examples of what I'm talking about right now in ShopTalk on the first page of threads. It's not about heat treat, or grinding, or who makes the best machine, or the best finishing technique, or who drove the best goddamn car this morning - it's about ALL of these things.
Too often I see guys answering questions on here with bold positions. Some of them are guys that I can't find a single example of work from. How the hell is that even possible?!?!?!?! There are some GIANTS that provide information with examples of their work darn near everywhere, and I've witnessed THEIR statements trampled by yahoos that haven't once ever proven that they can do anything other than 'talk the talk'. There are guys that have thousands and thousands of posts - in a few cases, more posts than Spark. You know, Spark - the guy that owns Bladeforums. Many of these guys have yet to post a single good example of their work - something that would allow for a degree of scrutiny, showing the details they claim to maintain. How can this be?
I understand that there are some guys here that intentionally post under pseudonyms, as it liberates them to say things that perhaps might cause trouble for their real existence. I get it. There's few enough of them, or perhaps even guys that aren't knifemakers but that have great input, for their participation to be accepted and weighed as it will. The rest of us should offer the ShopTalk community a bit of respect and PROVE that you do what you say, or perhaps consider refraining from offering an opinion until you CAN make your point with an example.
My goal isn't to dissuade people from sharing - just the opposite! I WANT you to share your work!!!! I WANT you to show who you are!!!! The critical thing here, though, is to explain how and why you do something, and show what the results are. ALL OF US benefit when you do. The best input from folks usually starts with "this may or may not be the right way, but this is how I do it" - then they SHOW how they do it. I'm not asked to take anyone's word for it. I wouldn't expect anyone to take my word for anything, either.
I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. In fact, I'm about twelve or thirteen years into this ride, and the longer I continue the less I realize I understand. What I do understand, though, is just how much bullshit is allowed to propagate from people that regurgitate what they've heard, as if it's what they've achieved. Maybe they have! I couldn't say - they've never provided proof. Even when asked for it. Suspicious, no?
It's up to the individual to decide what he reads here is right or not, or whether the information they've found is credible, but it should be up to the provider of information to exemplify what they're promoting. I wonder why more people don't insist on this...
