How tough are Emerson knives in reality ?

A lot of good comments in these posts. A spirited exchange. Some smoke but no flames.

I'd like to add my opinion to the stack.

After years of ignoring Emerson knives owing to inexperience on my part when I had a Mini CQC-7, I in the last year have had a Mach I (sold didn't meet my needs), a Mini Commander (a definite keeper), a very used Commander (another keeper), a Persian (sold didn't meet my needs), and a CQC-8 (wow, heck of knife!).

I've been mostly a Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech user. I've had some issues with Spyderco folder ergonomics (I have smaller size hands and the typical knarls and stiffness associate with long use), I feel Benchmade is moving more towards "gentleman's" knives than field folders (exception is the 520) plus the warranty is voided if you take one apart, and Microtech hasn't released a large manual folder since the Amphibian.

While I certainly wouldn't make the marketing claim Emerson does, I haven't had any problems with Emersons except a sloppy liner lock on the Commander I bought used. Emerson fixed that for me in a week at no cost even though it was a well used knife and I wasn't the original owner.

Emerson knives are easy to take apart and assemble and it doesn't void the warranty. This makes them a good field knife.

Fit and finish are adequate but not up to BM, MT, or high end Spyderco. Again, OK for a using field knife.

Maintaining a hair popping scary sharp edge is more difficult for me as well but getting a usably sharp edge in the field is easier and quicker. Good qualities in a field knife. I find edge retention typical of ATS-34/154 CM knives. Note that the two newest Emerson knives, CQC-10 and the Blackhawk 10th Anniversary, are both normal v grind knives. This tells me that Emerson has recognized that most customers want this grind. Don't expect Ernie to take back his opinion that chisel grinds are better, do give him credit for recognizing market demands.

Ergonomics are superb, the mark of a designer who is also a user.

We are all becoming "lock snobs". There is nothing wrong with a well executed liner lock. It is evident that Emerson has had some QA problems from the comments here. However, the locks on all four of the new Emersons I've had this year have been excellent.

Yeah, Emerson customs are way over priced but I can say the same for many other customs and a lot of production knives as well. It's demand and that means its us. I don't find the myth and legend behind Emerson marketing to be any more hype than that spit out by Randall, William Henry, Chris Reeves, and many others.

I believe the street price on Emerson production knives is reasonable. My only complaint is that many of the "exclusive design" production knives are the best of breed and they have been poorly marketed and in short supply.

In summary, Ernie Emerson knows his stuff when it comes to designing using folders although EKI has had some problems with quality but Emerson customer service is great.

IMHO if you are a knife user and want a good field folder that won't make your hand sore if you cut all day, that is easy to sharpen with a smooth rock if that's all you have, that you can take apart to clean, that is reasonably priced, don't hesitate to buy an Emerson.
 
I inspected a couple EKI knives at a gun shop a while back-Commander, P SARK. The liners definitely appeared much thinner than thos on my BMs, and the G10 slabs didn't match the shape of the liners-nothing major, but visible bits of the liner near the butt of the handle and at the spine. The blade finishes were ok, could see some blemishes beneath the black caoting. I think they should go for 20-30% less than what they ask now, esp. if they aren't going to newer steels.
 
An old CQC6 was my EDC for close to 10 years until I retired it to the memorabilia drawer this week...never failed me, and I've put it through all kinds of hell but when someone told me what it was worth it frightened me enough to replace it with a CPM S30V Spyderco Military...and by the way, I'm not an armchair commando...:cool:
 
The handles offer great ergonomics. The liner locks and single bevel edge (chisel grind), are weak. Definitly overpriced when you compare them to others knives. Good marketing sells anything.
 
I used to be a big fan of Emerson knives. I own 2 Commanders and 1 CQC7. The only time I now carry a Commander is in the quick deployment Emerson sheath, which I really like. The wave in the sheath is really cool, fast and fool proof. However, the overall quality of the production Emersons has not proven to be good for the long haul.

As far as strength and toughness, the Commanders are just "OK". One of my Commanders has never been carried and new, out of the box, the blade rubs on the liner if you open it with the stud. The other one, which used to be my EDC, has had to have the liner lock rebuilt because it slid too far across when the blade was open (and this was only after 1 year of very very very light usage).

If you are looking to spend $150 - $200 on a EDC folder you can do much better than an Emerson. Heck, I just spent $186.00 on a Spyderco ATR and it is twice the quality of the Commander. Plus the ATR has an all titanium handle and V30 steel and vastly superior compression lock.
 
Originally posted by roshi

I believe the street price on Emerson production knives is reasonable. My only complaint is that many of the "exclusive design" production knives are the best of breed and they have been poorly marketed and in short supply.
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Reasonable based upon what?

I know the standard "that's what the market will allow" response, but I'm curious as to what features actually justify their prices.

They are not as well machined as competing knives.

They are not assembled as well as competing knives.

They do not require the intricate manucafturing that is needed for newer locking mechanisms common on competing knives.

They use lower-end blade steel than competing knives.

So why are the prices comparable?
 
Could the lock problems be attibuted to the knife being opened by the wave? Flicking is generally bad for any folder, so wouldn't opening the knife with the wave put even more stress on the knife than flicking it?
 
Originally posted by SarcoBlaster
Could the lock problems be attibuted to the knife being opened by the wave? Flicking is generally bad for any folder, so wouldn't opening the knife with the wave put even more stress on the knife than flicking it?
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Perhaps this is correct. My CQC7 has held up much better than my Commander. My CQC7 has no wave feature. However, one of the big selling points of the Commander is the wave. Therefore, the entire design should be able to hold up well for what it was designed to do (in this case open, using the wave).

I have truly liked Emerson knives in the past. The competition is starting to pass them by, and they (Emerson) might be suffering from too much of their own hype. I don't mean to be slamming Emerson. They have great distribution and a great following. I feel sad that that their quality does not seem to be living up to their reputation. When I can walk into a store, pick up a brand new Commander, and find the blade rubbing on the liner, when you push on the blade stud to open the knife, it makes me quite sad. There is no reason for a modern folder to have this happen.
 
Changed my mind. I don't need to continue the path to flames.

I'll simply say that those who are dismissing Emerson knives based on heresay are missing out on some great field knives. Email me if you want to dump any of them.
 
great ergos, maybe the best ergos, poor lock and opening/closing action.

I unloaded my commander, because it wasnt as good as my $60 benchmade TSEK.

I dont like the grinds on them very much either, i would prefer if they were a bit higher for better cutting geometry. I do kind of like the chisel edge though, it was pretty great. The short plastic backspacer didnt do much for me either.

I did handle a handmade super 7, and it was fantastic.
 
I had a Commander. I really like the look of the knife. But I was not impressed with the liner lock. It was way too thin. I will give EK on thing they are very comfortable in hand. I was not overly impressed with the wave. Nice feature, but I would rather "flick" anyday.

The only Emerson I have now is a green handled SPECWAR, which hardly sees days in pocket. I also have a Benchmade/Emerson CQC tanto which was designed by Emerson and built by Benchmade. This knife seems much better built than the SPECWAR or the Emerson CQC7.

It would be nice if EK would beef up the locks, or a new design lock, and get rid of the chisel grind :grumpy:
 
LizardKing wrote-
I did handle a handmade super 7, and it was fantastic.
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Yes, you got that right-no other knife feels as good to me as my old, worn CQC6.
Having said that, I feel Spyderco makes the best bang for the buck these days-the Military, Calypso Jr. & Native are my favorite Spydercos, and Sal Glesser is THE best when it comes to listening to what his customers want.
 
Originally posted by roshi
Changed my mind. I don't need to continue the path to flames.

I'll simply say that those who are dismissing Emerson knives based on heresay are missing out on some great field knives. Email me if you want to dump any of them.
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Perhaps I did not phrase that correctly, certainly no "path to flames" intended.

I just think that it is interesting that they are comparable in cost to knives which appear to be more expensive to manufacture. Generally this means that they have some additional attributes that are not immediately noticeable, which make the purchase "worth it" to their customers.

I was curious as to what some of these attributes are. I did not say that they do not exist. I did not say that they are bad knives. I'm just looking for further explanation.
 
The majority of my production collection is Emerson's, and all of them, except my waved Commander, are great knives all around.

I recently sent my Commander back to EKI for adjustment to the lock. The blade rubs the liners when opening, and the lock takes too much force to release; rides too far to the right. Hopefully they fix it right.

My current EDC is a CQC-7A, and this knife has been tortured and beat for almost a year now, and it keeps coming back for more. Lockup is solid, and there is very slight lateral blade play. I also have the BM 970, and it is better built than a CQC-7 in every aspect.

I also like the chisel grind; for me it is easy to sharpen and maintain. I use a Gerber diamond rod, and sharpen the edge freehand, and strop on cardboard. Works very well, and produces a good working edge.
 
I'm glad to hear diverse opinions regarding the EKI quality. I don't think the wave feature puts a really high stress on the pivot/lock. It depends on how hard you pull the knife from your pocket. I don't pull it hard or fast, because I'm afraid the lock won't hold due to its thickness. And I was right. I pulled it from my pocket (not fast/hard), and the lock slided deeper.

In an extreme case, how can one be comfortable relying their lives on a knife whose lock they don't even trust ?

What if the lock fails during that time ?

I don't demand all knives to be that strong. Every knife should be used according to its design. I got my SNG folder today, and I recognize immediately that the lock will not fail me under any circumstances. It's thick, and locks solidly. Once it locks into place, it's really hard to move it. After opening and closing for 5 or 6 times, the tip of my righ thumb sores so bad because of the stress I put on it when disengaging the lock, that's how tough the lock is. That's what a hardcore knife should do IMHO. I would bet anytthing that IF Strider ever puts a wave feature on the SNG, it wouldn't cause any side effects (such as too much stress on the pivot or lock).

Another example would be my small Sebenza. Nope, I'm not a Sebenza maniac. I like mine because I know I can trust her. She's about 10 years old now, and I'm the third owner. The first 2 owners have abused her, and it left very deep scratches on the blade. The blade was sanded/polished by sand paper roughly, and it showed those marks too. When I got her, I disassembled her, cleaned her washers, polished ther blade (regular maintenance work), and her action now is smoother than a custom's. The lock still locks like a vault. I remember reading someone saying that his Emerson failed after a year of light usage, and here I have a 10-year-old abused small Sebenza that still works like new. The Sebenza (small) now sells around $200, about the same price as the EKI kerambit.

Of course, this comes with a higher price tag. My concern is, why put too much exaggeration on the ad ? Why say "the #1 hard use knives in the world" when they are not ?

To be honest, I feel like being cheated by this kind of marketing technique. I don't think I'd buy another Emersons nor would I trust one. May be it's just in my case, but I'd rather spend $400 on a knife that I know I can trust than spend $200 on a knife (in this case, Kerambit) that I know I have doubts with. It's like : if you don't trust your significant other, would u still want to be with her/him ?

Again, I'm not trying to start a flame on EKI or bad-mouthing it. I also don't use this thread as a media for advertising SNG. I simply state what's in my mind. I'll post a picture as my support asap.

BTW, PLEASE don't be offended with what's being written in this thread. My purpose by starting this thread is to gain diverse opinions regarding the subject and to start an educated discussion.
 
I have owned 3 Emerson's, a CQC-10, a Commander, and a Super Commander. All were Grade A in quality. I love Ernie's designs a lot, they fit my hand perfectly every time I grab one, EKI is the only production brand that I can say this about.

However, thin liner locks, a left hand chisel grind, and 154cm steel are not exactly what I would call awe striking features. In fact the only awe striking feature about Emerson's is Wave and the prices! :eek:
 
Usually, when threads begin talking about Emerson's quality etc I do not take part. The threads usually end up being very firey and tiresome. But I also used to be very much of a Emerson supporter. No longer. I doubt if I will buy another. Once they were leaders, but now other manufacturers are simply passing them by. Their Karambit looks interesting, but since Spyderco is coming out with one, I will wait.
 
Originally posted by jayharley
If you are looking to spend $150 - $200 on a EDC folder you can do much better than an Emerson. Heck, I just spent $186.00 on a Spyderco ATR and it is twice the quality of the Commander. Plus the ATR has an all titanium handle and V30 steel and vastly superior compression lock.
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Bingo. The ATR. I need to handle one of these. Lock and steel are on the right track, but the knife looks like it has a lot of "sharp points" on it, other than the one we obviously want to be sharp.

Not to hijack the thread, but any comments on ergonomics (in-pocket, in-hand, in-use) of the ATR?
 
Originally posted by jayharley
Usually, when threads begin talking about Emerson's quality etc I do not take part. The threads usually end up being very firey and tiresome. But I also used to be very much of a Emerson supporter. No longer. I doubt if I will buy another. Once they were leaders, but now other manufacturers are simply passing them by.
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This thread strikes me as very reasonable in tone. And remarkable in how reasonably uniform the opinions are.

Consistent message:
Good ergos, great designs, inconsistent workmanship, therefore some pieces display very mediocre workmanship for the price, blade steel is ok but not commensurate with price, etc. Lots of transparent marketing hype.

Major contrast: 2 years ago, this would have rapidly descended into a huge, unproductive, irrational, "many facts ignored in defense" type flame war with the Usual Suspects, a few of the remnants of which (I don't remember who they are honestly) may still frequent this forum. But I guess they moved to their own little network, which I hear is well "defended". I'll refrain from further comment at this point to avoid any cross forum ... er... uh ... issues.

I will say my CQC8 (production, ltd edition for Surefire) very much impressed me out of the box. Why it took Ernie so long to get his best design (IMO) onto the production marketplace bewilders me. NO WAY I'd pay for a custom version, not a chance. WAY overpriced.

The overall fit/finish of the CQC8 is much better than all of my other EKI samples. Maybe they put their best production line guy on making a single batch or something (qty 250?). One weird thing: the handle back spacer... it's softer than G10, has a "spongy" appearance visually and tactically, like the surface is full of teeny pits. It scores with a fingernail. Liners still show the usual machine marks, but are fitted more flush with G-10 scales for a change. I like the G-10 EKI uses (and wish BM would go back to this stuff, and back to the ATS-34 and the heat treat they used to use). Same crappy round head pivot screw on logo side, same crappy black paint job that is starting to wear off, but opposite side of pivot screw assy is flat/flush with handle surface (unlike my Mach-I, and I can't remember how the long-gone Specwar, P-Sark, CQC7, were done, etc).

Having said that, CQC8 is relegated to "only when self defense use is a primary issue" type carry. And the centered-outta-the-box blade is, after light carry and use, now rubbing the liner when I push the disk to open. Shame. Ernie really needs to re-engineer the whole pivot/bushing system. But ergos and design are excellent for a self defense piece, stout tip!... and so far the liner lock is quite reasonable, so it's a keeper for now. So is the Surefire light it came with.

Ok, enough. I'm starting to repeat myself.

EKI needs better precision on the production line to ensure locks are top notch, to ensure fit/finish are commensurate with price.

EKI needs to re-engineer the poorly executed pivot/bushing system.

EKI needs to bring the saber grind up higher, offer all models in V-grind (which they may now, I don't have interest in exploring), and needs to sharpen the knives on the right side for 90% of population who are right handed.

But, shame, they didn't ask me, they didn't ask us, the customers, like Sal is so smart to do.
 
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