How tough are Emerson knives in reality ?

The EK board in the Makers / Mfgs section of this website don't have much activity. Is this due to less interest in EK products or is is due to EK faithfuls going to the USN board.

EK seems to have a cult following who will pay hefty sums for custom EK.

Price and liner thickness seems to be the most common gripes.

I have been eyeing a number of EK folders but I end up buying from other manufacturers because they offer more for the $.

The Super CQC7 & Super SOCFK are folders that I must have.
 
Originally posted by Bohica2u
The liner lock has "gone downhill" so I treat it like a slipjoint now.

My Commander in 154CM dulled after cutting 20 LF of heavy duty landscaping fabric. Also, the "awesome chisel grind" edge rolled after scraping a couple of incorrect survey marks on some wood lath.
Emerson? :rolleyes:
What happened to your liner lock? Wear? Too far "right"?

Ernie chooses to run 154CM at target Rc57-59. That's a bit soft for 154CM, just my opinion. I suspect he wanted the knives a bit tougher and maybe easier to field sharpen. Anything easier to sharpen must be easier to dull, almost by definition. Softness contributes directly to edge roll for sure.

Dulling on on 20' of landscaping fabric? Whew. That's bad. That's very bad.

If you have an opinion on the QA/QC of parts tolerances and build quality of the Emerson folder, imagine Emerson has much in the way of QC on heat treat? Would be great to Rockwell test a number of blades and see what the real hardness range is.
 
Originally posted by nonbox
The EK board in the Makers / Mfgs section of this website don't have much activity. Is this due to less interest in EK products or is is due to EK faithfuls going to the USN board.

I think the migration is the primary cause. At this point the only way to get up-to-date info on EK is to join USN.
 
I used to be a raving madman for Emerson knives. I've calmed down.

I like the Emersons I have owned. I think the liners need to be thicker and better done. I think their quality control needs to be improved a lot. Being rough and tumble knives is no excuse to have scale overlap, and rough liner edged, when Benchmade and Spyderco do not, and for less MSRP in some cases.
V grind edges need to be put out on an equal basis with chisel edges, which need to be right hand chisel edges.

I've had a Commander for three years, and dont nasty things to it. I've even used it to scrape dried tar of a tin roof, without damaging it. That does say something.
Emerson's "Wave" feature, despite the amount of BS that can surround it on both sides of the argument, is simply genius and a wonderful tool/invention, on par with the original thumb hole or pocket clip.

Emerson's production version of the Perrin La Griffe is WONDERFUL. There is no knife like it on a production level. The next best are the [url-www.hideawayknife.com]HideAway[/url] and Fred Perrin customs. EKI needs credit for making the prodo La Griffe. Its an essential part of my EDC, as it is for many folks. An important, and reliable knife, that is well made, with a good sheath, good edge geometry, and no hard/sharp/rough edges.

Ernest Emersons own customs are far and away some of the best out there and are beyond compare to the productions. Worth a grand? No, but he doesnt ask a grand for them either, and wont be again when he gets his current backorders worked off. They are built like a tank, but are very well made at the same time, not rough, not un-finished anywhere, very well done.

I like Emersons... I say hand pick them, but I do like them quite a bit, for the reasons above, especially the wave. As a defensive knife user thats very important to me.
 
I love the 'wave' feature. The first reason why I like EKI is because of their 'wave' fature. But it should be supported by a better lock. I can'fully utilize the feature because I'm afraid that I would damage the lock somehow when I pull the knife too hard.
 
:)

I've used various Emerson knives since 98 and here's my take:

Yes, EKI QC haven't at all times been consistent, i believe that that has really changed in the last 18 months as those knives i have checked out personally (15-20) since has seemed much more consistent in their fit/finish.

Let's see the major complaints concerning EKI knives:

1:st, chisel grinds, i don't get the thing about right hand vs. left hand chisel grind? yes, it makes sense if you cut from 12 to 6 at all times (facing a watchface) as you probably would using various chef knives, knives geared for utility use and/or selfdefense it just doesn't make sense, you might be cutting from 9 to 3, 7 to 1, 5 to 11 etc. etc. depending on the type of cut the edge would be in different relation to the material being cut thus making that argument somewhat weak? I don't like chisel edges as i'm very bad at sharpening them, but i've noticed that they don't feel as sharp as a regular grind, but they do cut like mad.

2:d, thin liners, i much prefer the thicker liners that, for example, was on the early Commanders, to me they just feels better.
I just measured the liners of some of my EKI knives (Karambit, both live and drone, SOCFK, 99 Commander) and compared them to a few Benchmade (AFCK M2, BM 970S, BM 975S) and they have the same thickness (about 1.3 mm) these aren't representing the newest of BM's knives but as they were brought up earlier and were the only i had at my reach i used them. I've used my Commander trainer to "spar" against tyre stacks, it is quite demanding for the knife as i was going full force, never did the linerlock fail me om my 2 trainers. The whole knife did flex when i got it "stuck" between 2 tyres, but it didn't fail. Comparing a linerlock to a framelock is, in my opinion, not fair, they are not the same lock. I like frame locks, but they generally tend to make a knife somewhat more bulkier then a knife of the same thickness and length.

On my Strider GB the liner will sit differently depending on how i open it, if i open it slow or flick it, it is a difference. My Ryan M1 had a thick liner lock, it too sat different depending on how i opened it, sometimes it stuck.

I think that i've had around 60 EKI knives passed through my hands, so far i've had problems with the locks on 3 of them. EKI will make it right if you send them in.

3:d, liner rub, the 2 BM AFCK i owns has liner rub, as had an 710 axis-lock i owned. I owned a Microtech SOCOM (manual) that had linerrub[framerub?]. On the 4 Spyderco Police model knives i've owned i had liner/frame rub on all of them. On my EKI knives i can disassemble them and tinker to get them xactly as i want them to be, with BM i void the warranty if i take'em apart... one of my AFCK's had all of the screws that holds the body of the knife together strip and the knife basically fell apart (this was before they used inserts) the weak plastic backspacer broke/snapped when i was fumbling with it. I did the same (stripped screws) on one of my 970's while trying to tighten the loose screws, they were only screwed into the g-10, not the ti liners.

4:th, blade steel, new "super" steels come every now and then, right now S30V is one of them, it doesn't make earlier "super" steel obselete, which steel is best is somewhat a subjective question, right? On one of my BM 970's i snapped the tip while cutting plastic, i was somewhat surprised as i didn't put very much into it.
It has yet to happen with my EKI's and they have been used a lot.

I have both an SOCFK and a P-SARK that has been used very much, they have almost lost all of it's bladecoatings, but they work perfectly, i take'em apart every now and then and clean/lube/re-assembly - as good as new. (xcept for the coating)
Any bladeplay is easily adjusted thanks to the slotted pivotscrew, not torx, allen, or other strange or odd screw, and thankfully, no Loc-Tite..

I think the main resaon for the low activity on the Emerson forum here is that most of the loyal (i consider myself amongst them) EKI "fans" has migrated.

5:th, price, I agree that EKI knives might seem (too) expensive when comparing to other, similar knives, but, i find that everytime i disassemble one i find that they usually put more into building their knives then competitors do, yes, they are usually not as refined and "pretty" as competetive designs, they are somewhat roughly finished, but for users i don't care.

Considering the price on custom Emerson knives, they are a prime example of supply and demand, i don't feel that a CQC-6 is worth around 12-1400 USD, but, the market dictates the price, not Mr. Emerson! I'm not too experienced in custom folders, but of those i have examined and handled my opinion is that the original price asked for a CQC-6 or a CQC-9 is about right compared to similarly priced custom knives (around 550 USD)
I find the prices asked for various Loveless knives ridiculos, but, to each his own :)

To me, some of the major, and not so major "problems" on EKI knives are more subjective matters like blade steels, HRC, lock type then concerns about [liner]locks failing and knives breaking in various ways, hey, everyone has different opinions on how knives should be made, but saying that they (EKI) are faulty for making knives the way THEY believe knives should be made is somewhat out of this world...

[irony]Hey Sal, (Glesser @ Spyderco) stop making those humpbacked folders, they are fugly, Hey Les (deAsis @ BM) stop making those funky bali-songs, make frame-locks instead![/irony]
:) i guess that each knifemaking company makes knives the way they want and feel that knives should be made, as it should be! that what makes having a knifeinterest so fun, the variation...

Some might have the opinion that EKI knives are just for chairborne commandos, well, so be it then, each to his own :)

Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one but it doesn't mean that it is valid to me, neither opinion nor a-hole.. :p

Of course there's marketing hype attached to EKI knives, as it is with about every knifemaking company out there, Cold Steel for example aren't very humble either!

Trying to close this;
I've had problems with about every knifefactory delivering knives that weren't as they should be, not excluding EKI, IF something you bought is not the way it should be, send it in. IF the company doesn't fix it to your expectations... that's bad of course...
But as long as they don't know there's a problem they cannot possibly fix it, simple as 1-2-3...

I go to BM for my bali-song needs, regular folders are pretty much EKI, and Strider, FB are Cold Steel and Strider... they are all great companies, as are Spyderco, Mr. Glesser seems a really nice guy, i talked briefly to his son at Blade 2003, nice and friendly guy, as i picture the whole Spyderco gang...

Sorry for being longwinded... hope that i got my points through :)

[edited for spelling]
 
Jonas :
well said brudda':cool:


Oh yeah about the Emerson black coating. Mine was showing wear as I use the Mini Comm daily. A quick trip thru the bead blaster left the blade looking like this :
Came out a nice medium between the black and the silver , kind of a flat or steel gray :

contrast.jpg


mini%20comm%20bead%20blast.jpg
 
I've carried my Commander for 5 years now and I don't have any problems with it. Heck, my only problem with Emerson Knives is lack of production hitting the civilian market.
 
Originally posted by the45guy
The spine whack BS is just that ..BS... in case you guys have not noticed the edge is on the other side of the blade and that is what you cut with. I don't go around spine whacking stuff to cut it , I prefer to use the edge.
It is quite possible to end up with a solid blow to the spine of a knife in utility use, or in a self defense encounter. Some of us want to stack the odds in our favor that our lock doesn't disengage. See my autosignature.
 
well then if you want to get right down to it , no folder would be optimal for self defense. Anything that folds can fold at any given moment. Carry a fixed blade if you are that paranoid about a blade folding.

I just think way too much is put into the spinewhack BS .

** Your auto signature means nothing no me - please clarify if you would - thanks **
 
Because spine whacking puts force in one direction. Forces in rough and tumble situations will coem in many directions. Some have moves from liner locks to other locks because, though a knife may pass a spine whack, the same knife may not pass a hard stab/rotation, which can disengage a lock. Spine whacking gives some info at least, but is hardly a one stop knife test.

This I type with an Emerson CQC-7 tanto in my pocket.
 
When Ernie says the best way he's found to sharpen a knife (at least Emersons) is with a diamond oval rod and some cardboard, he means it. I had hell trying to sharpen my mini-commander with a sharpmaker, it'd take me more than an hour to get a decent (note-decent meaning sharp but not shaving) edge on it. I bought an Ultimate Edge 600 grit diamond rod, reprofiled the edge to about 30 degrees total (note-that took me 3 days working on it as often as possible) and now it's awesome. It does dull fast, but 10-15 strokes on the diamond rod, 1 stroke on the non-edge side, and 10 strokes for each side on my jeans, and it's back to shaving sharp.

The QC is an issue...I won't deny that at all, but ten minutes with some medium/fine sand paper and the scales/liners/backspacer were flush. A little bending of the secondary detent, no spaces between the washers/blade. clean the grease out and add some militec, smooth as silk. I have no problems anymore with any of the above mentioned items.

Yes, after about 2000 waves and 2 pairs of shorts with decorative denim shreds around the pockets, the liner is slipping and the blade is bouncing back about 7 out of 10 waves, so I'll send it in and have it back with perfect lockup and a nice solid CLICK when I wave it within a couple weeks.

Would I pay a grand for an Emerson custom? Yes, no. I'd buy a CQC5/6/7 custom, but not an 8 or 9. It's all personal preference.
 
Originally posted by Spark
Heck, my only problem with Emerson Knives is lack of production hitting the civilian market.

Very true.

Emerson's are like any other knife in that when so many are made, it's possible a few will slip through with a QC problem. But they will make it right. And in the heat of an extremely violent encounter any lock can fail under the right circumstances. Use a FB for self defense if it worries you.

Emerson customs are great knives IMO. Like Steve Chism said, it's a matter of personal preference. I really like the Viper series and the CQC 5,6,7. Dont go by aftermarket prices, that is just what some people are willing to pay. The knives direct from Ernie at shows are mostly $550 with some of the newer models(super 6,7 etc) a little more. His zero grind is unbelievably sharp. Though I am a big fan of Emersons, I am not too excited over the wave. For whatever reason, just doesnt do it for me.

Are some Emerson afficionados armchair commandos? Of course, as are collectors of any other of the tactical type knives. How many here are actually skilled knife fighters? Not many I bet. Personally I'm a powerlifter,printer, and sheathmaker, definitely not a knife fighter. But would I use a knife to defend myself or my family if I felt our lives were threatened? Bet your butt I would.

I mostly collect Carsons, and Jones Brothers Knives, and have a couple of custom Emersons. Why? Just because I like them. To each his own.

Anyway, that's my .02. Here's a pic of one that rides on my belt everyday, the only custom CQC 6 with stag handles in existence:D
 

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Originally posted by the45guy
Jonas :
well said brudda':cool:

Thanks man :)

Lifter, that 6 is sweet :eek: i'm not a stag guy, but i wouldn't mind to carry a six with stag.. oh yeah...
Reason that you don't like the wave is that you're too strong, either your pants will fly off or the knifeblade will start to rotate completly around the pivot.. :eek:

;)
 
Icemanjeff: "Good thread guys. I have to agree with most of what you said. I also got caught up in the hype about being the #1 hard use knife etc. I bought a commander and I love the wave feature and the shape and feel of the handle. However I think the liner lock is very weak and wimpy. Overall I think they are way overpriced and over hyped. I doubt I will ever buy another EKI folder. I like my knives big and solid, I was hoping to get that with the commander. Unfortunately I didn't. On a side note I am expecting a Strider AR at my door in a couple of days!"
----------------
Ditto, except for having a strider showing up at my door in a few days.
 
Originally posted by rt014
the liner lock is very weak and wimpy

And if that lock is whimpy then a lot of other knives too have whimpy locks, so it is not just EKI that makes whimpy locks, it seems that the linerlock standard is whimpy..

If you ever decide to get a Strider i'm sure that you'll like it, the ARE/GB's are large folders, but damn they work well and lokk/feels great!

:)
 
Oh, so how many do you carry then? Must be a lot! :O



Originally posted by komondor
I have a strong suspicion Emerson knives are just overpriced pieces of shyte carried by armchair ninjas who are suckers for glossy marketing.
 
This kind of thread has appeared over and over again on this board. Every year this topic surfaces. Every year there are more knife nuts that become aware that EK is offering less for the money and EK is not living up to the hype.

I remember years ago their were a bunch of hard core emerson fans that jumped all over any one who said the slightest negative comment about EK.

Maybe all the hard core emerson fans have migrated to the USN board.
 
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