How useful are bayonets?

Billy02 said:
How useful are bayonets? Is a rifle with a knife attached more effective than just a knife?
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Today's USMC still carries on the tradition of bayonet training because it instills aggressive behavior in combat and the will to fight with whatever is at hand. So it's useful.

If I have only a knife or shovel and I'm up against a Marine with a bayonet on his rifle, I'm probably going to die. So it's effective.

Do they get used much now? No. But it's all about context.

Zieg
 
Use of the bayonet in the Napoleonic Wars is quite interesting. The French attacked in huge columns, which generally was very effective, hence their amazing success.

Wellington in response would deploy his infantry in line, keeping up a withering fire into the front of the French column. As the front ranks fell, the bodies piled up, disordering the French advance. When the column looked ready to break, the British would then charge with bayonets, which had a tendency to cause a rout. Wellington won many battles by choosing the right ground to defend, then letting the French come on.
 
But I do smile when I think of putting one on the end of a shotgun. My SMLE looks better with its bayonet. And I want one for my M1.

Zieg
 
Wasn’t there a military somewhere who would mount bayonet and then stab the bayonet into the ground as a way to hold the rifle in one place while making camp, resting on marches, etc, and allow it to be muzzle down so rain and other crap didn’t get down the barrel?

I vaguely recall reading that somewhere but hell if I’d spread it as gospel.
 
I have never served in the military but I imagine that bayonets can still be very useful for
Guarding prisoners
Crowd control
In both cases the need is for a weapon that is intimidating but not immediately lethal.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
They make sense for soldiers or Marines in the field as a tool that can be used ad hoc. When you go in the field you have to improvise and a bayonet is a useful tool for odds and ends.
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Nah, I'm sure they would be happier with a Leatherman.

Bayonets are romantised too much. Nothing exciting about them from a knife guys point of view.
Soft and thick, mass production to the lowest bidder with a pseudo edge really just made for poking holes in stuff. It's use is so specific it's useless to everyone except an infantryman in dire straights or some history buff that likes the idea of them and romanticises them.

As far as acutual cutting performance, it's very low.

A pointy, slightly sharpened pry bar.

I've been given bayonets to sharpen from customers. Upon evaluation of the geometry and steel, it's a waste of time. Especially considering the intended use.

If you love bayonets, sorry to say but they are useless to normal people.

But not if you love Ninja stars, swords and spears, fits right in.
 
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Russians used them as charging assault weapons as opposed to defensive tools. You had to be a good shot, save your ammo and shoot to kill. Being ready and willing to engage close gave soldiers psychological advantage and was given alot of consideration while training.

I'd use one to poke at people who don't wanna move or finish off wounded enemy instead of using ammo.
Probably will help you with recoil too. But what do i know I'm just immigrant in Canada.
 
I got more use out of my cheap CRKT Prowler than I ever did with the bayonet I was issued.
 
Figure the soviets wire cutting bayonet was a game changer.
Up until then, the bayonet's primary function was for direct bladed applications on the "enemy".
The m9 bayonet came about as a result of trying to match this soviet innovation.
So that throughout the end of the last century most subsequent bayonets produced worldwide
had multi functional design elements put in place,; such as wire cutters, saw backs
and even had bottle cap lifters/openers.
More importantly, the ability to use bayonets as effective field knives was not entirely over looked.
And since such effectiveness was all about coming up with a fitting edge geometry,
the look and feel of current bayonets differ somewhat from its ancient predecessors in physical
dimensions and styling.
In short, a modern day bayonet is the result of ever changing requirements
as seen fit by the power that be.
Yeah, it's more knife like today, but who knows about tomorrow??
With shorter and lighter weapons, "long barrels" might not exist to fix bayonets then ;-).
 
Agreed, Zieg. A scattergun with a bayonet is a smile inducing force to be reckoned with.

Gotta get one for mine too.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Nah, I'm sure they would be happier with a Leatherman.

Bayonets are romantised too much. Nothing exciting about them from a knife guys point of view.
Soft and thick, mass production to the lowest bidder with a pseudo edge really just made for poking holes in stuff. It's use is so specific it's useless to everyone except an infantryman in dire straights or some history buff that likes the idea of them and romanticises them.

As far as acutual cutting performance, it's very low.

A pointy, slightly sharpened pry bar.

I've been given bayonets to sharpen from customers. Upon evaluation of the geometry and steel, it's a waste of time. Especially considering the intended use.

If you love bayonets, sorry to say but they are useless to normal people.

But not if you love Ninja stars, swords and spears, fits right in.
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I like bayonets from a militaria perspective. No need to make ninja accusations. I simply think that for serviceman they have uses. Sure prying crates is easier with a crowbar, but you have to have a crowbar in the first place. The only thing where I have seen them excel is as a convenient mine probe for EOD. They make a metallic ring against metal cases, i.e. artillery shells, and are useful in 'slicing' carefully through dirt. Plenty of civilian implements surpass the general utility of a bayonet, so yeah not particularly useful. Military day to day life on deployment is different than regular life. On deployments you have to use what you got or can source. I personally find bayonets worthless as a civilian, yet I enjoyed throwing mine into the wood floor and would occasionally open MREs with one when it was more convenient than a proper knife while in the Marines.
 
so majority is saying bayonet is better with a rifle, i dont know why but i am still convinced that if hand to hand combat situation appears, the the bayonet will be much faster and lethal.
 
Billy02 said:
so majority is saying bayonet is better with a rifle, i dont know why but i am still convinced that if hand to hand combat situation appears, the the bayonet will be much faster and lethal.
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First of all, a bayo is by its very definition often accompanied by a rifle.

Secondly, you've obviously never been in fight armed with a blade .... and neither have I.

How ever, were I to find myself in such an unfortunate situation (Heaven forbid), I'd prefer to have as long a 'reach' and/or distance to an opponent as possible.

You should break out the trainer/dummy bayos and try fighting somebody with an M4 with a dummy bayo and you with just a dummy bayo.

The outcome would be fairly predictable and not in your favor.

Its not rocket science.
 
As a rule of thumb, if the enemy is close enough to stab with a bayonet, then they are too damned close. The current model is shaped more like a knife & is useful for cutting wire, but as a weapon, not so much. For the additional weight, I'd much rather have a side arm in case my rife jammed or whatever. I'm 70 years old & I've only met one soldier who actually stabbed someone with a bayonet & that was an uncle who was fighting the Japanese in some jungle & came upon an enemy soldier unexpectedly & stabbed him. I have a few and they are sort of cool to hang on the wall, but in the field, it's an anachronism. Just my 2$
 
19-3ben said:
Wasn’t there a military somewhere who would mount bayonet and then stab the bayonet into the ground as a way to hold the rifle in one place while making camp, resting on marches, etc, and allow it to be muzzle down so rain and other crap didn’t get down the barrel?

I vaguely recall reading that somewhere but hell if I’d spread it as gospel.
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When my son was killed in Iraq, they used a bayonet to stab the rifle into a box to hold his helmet and dog tag. Not sure which one is my son's, as we lost 4 in the ambush. I know the first guy standing. He was the gunner in the Humvee, and the only guy who wasn't killed or wounded, AFIK. Pic is from the Haditha Dam.

karl_linn78.jpg
 
USMCPOP said:
When my son was killed in Iraq, they used a bayonet to stab the rifle into a box to hold his helmet and dog tag. Not sure which one is my son's, as we lost 4 in the ambush. I know the first guy standing. He was the gunner in the Humvee, and the only guy who wasn't killed or wounded, AFIK. Pic is from the Haditha Dam.

karl_linn78.jpg
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So sorry for your loss. There are no words to express enough the gratitude your son deserves.
 
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