Humpback spey blades, why ?

[Danke42]

Yes, castrating bull calves is very common, I've done it many times myself.
But please note what I quoted above, the OP was talking about removing ovaries from cows.
Spaying and castrating are quite different procedures.

Yeah read that other post now. Weird.

Spey blades ain't for spaying!

 

[knifeswapper]

Cutting the testicles off is castrating, not spaying!

If we get specific, maybe we should go with geld instead of castrating..

 

[JohnDF]

Just to add more confusion...
Spay (with an A) is to sterilize a female.
Spey (with an E) is a type of casting in fly fishing.

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

Spey in British English
(speɪ ) a river in E Scotland, flowing generally northeast through the Grampian Mountains to the Moray Firth: salmon fishing; parts of the surrounding area ( Speyside) are famous for whisky distilleries. Length: 172 km (107 miles) Collins English Dictionary.
It may be that the original purpose and name of the blade may have had nothing to do with castration. Words evolve and change over time,however I have seen where spay/spey was a word used for de-sexing. Relatively speaking de-sexing female animals is a modern thing,hence a need for separate terminology. Why what used to be a word that signified a male being de-sexed was applied to females is beyond me. As to a "hip" spey I can see that being related to the terminology used for roofs; A hip roof, hip-roof or hipped roof, is a type of roof where all sides slope downwards to the walls, usually with a fairly gentle slope, copy and paste from Google. I can see why you'd call it a hip spey as it slopes downward from the middle towards each end much like a hip roof. A square house woth a hip roof would look like it has a pyramid on top,so no roof line would be horizontal. Much like a hip spey wouldn't have a horizontal edge along the spine. I've mostly ever seen Old Timers with them,perhaps its nothing more than a design to set themselves apart from their competitors

 

[Horsewright]

Just to add more confusion...
Spay (with an A) is to sterilize a female.
Spey (with an E) is a type of casting in fly fishing.

Spey is also the river in the highlands of Scotland where said two handed fly fishing casting technique developed. And also home to many a fine Single Malt! I use to be able to see the Spey from my window when I lived on an estate outside of Aviemore in Scotland. My understanding is that spey is the correct English spelling of the word for neutering regardless of sex. Spay is the Americanized spelling of the same word and we do use it referring to females only. Kinda like colour and color. Anyhoo cutting a bull calf is almost always done when young. There are a few places that specialize in raising bulls to sell to other cattlemen but outside of those, on a commercial outfit they're all gonna get cut. Many differences in the procedure and technique throughout cattle country. Heck from ranch to neighboring ranch. For instance some one mentioned above, the knife going into disinfectant. I've only ever seen that done once. We do spray a disinfectant on the wound afterwards but thats how we do it. I heard an old timer say one time. Ya know no matter wherever ya go they always get er done. A protoype I made recently. I call it the Roundnose Ranch Knife:

Kinda Speyish blade looking.

It has worked two brandings now and has passed with flying colours!

Waiting for the next calf:

I would say around here the most used type of knife is a trapper. But I've only seen a spey blade used once that I can recall:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/helping-the-neighbors-traditionals-in-use.1470750/

More info:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/well-its-pointless.1508574/

 

[JohnDF]

My understanding is that spey is the correct English spelling of the word for neutering regardless of sex. Spay is the Americanized spelling of the same word and we do use it referring to females only.

English is hard!!!
I've used all kinds of knives to castrate... Even a retractable utility knife.

 

[Houlahound]

Does this make "spey" blade a misnomer?

Yes, it makes folks sound like dumb ass city slickers in the same way they think cowboys shake the reigns and yell "HIYAAH" to move a horse.

 

[waynorth]

I would say around here the most used type of knife is a trapper. But I've only seen a spey blade used once that I can recall:

Thanks Dave, and all those who have actually performed the operations;
and for the English lessons!!
Not completely clear is the "hump" or "double-hip" issue! But it's just one of those many details that were started for now unfathomable reasons, but remain in our vocabularies!

 

[knifeswapper]

Dad used a spey blade on a Case Stockman and later a scalpel when the Kentucky trucks backed up to the corrals. Generally around 400-500 pound bull calves come out the headgate a half pound lighter. We put two wood post behind them and he would cut from the back. One energetic little fellow jumped straight up and kicked straight down one day and shattered the entire left side of his face. One of those days I will never forget and I was probably 8 years old. After that, we quite buying feeder calves and he banded them when they hit the ground. I don't care if I don't ever see a ralgro gun, bander, shoulder length gloves, or branding iron ever again.

 

[waynorth]

HIYAAH Ha Ha, H Houlahound !!

Sorry about your Dad, Mike!!

 

[knifeswapper]

Not completely clear is the "hump" or "double-hip" issue! But it's just one of those many details that were started for now unfathomable reasons, but remain in our vocabularies!

But, I've seen examples that were more out of the ordinary.

 

[waynorth]

A Curley Spey??
That's not a California Clip!! That's off-shore - maybe Alcatraz!!
An Alcatraz Clip!! Thus another Urban Cutlery Myth is born!!

 

[Houlahound]

Thus another Urban Cutlery Myth is born!

Like blood grooves and the little notch cut out in a Kukhri.

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

View attachment 1294297

But, I've seen examples that were more out of the ordinary.

View attachment 1294300

There sure are some odd variations out there

 

[Hickory n steel]

How far back does the " Spey " blade on the stockman or Cattle knife go ?
Maybe they're called a " spey " blade because they resembled the common speying knives of the day ?

 

[waynorth]

How far back does the " Spey " blade on the stockman or Cattle knife go ?
Maybe they're called a " spey " blade because they resembled the common speying knives of the day ?

What was the common speying knife of the day shaped like?? Picture please!!

 

[Houlahound]

I am not sure cows were spayed too far back in history, if for whatever reason someone decided the genes of an individual cow should be taken out of the gene pool then they were more likely to be eaten than spayed. The risk of losing a precious beast to infection etc by surgically removing the ovaries with a knife back in the day would not outweigh the benefits so I seriously doubt it happened.

Or are we still misusing the word spay to mean castrate?

 

[Hickory n steel]

What was the common speying knife of the day shaped like?? Picture please!!

I don't know what such a knife would look like if it existed, that was just a thought.

Another thought I had is if they were originally referred to as a spade which they do kind of look a bit like, and that somehow became Spey blade ?

 

[Bigfattyt]

Ahh..just realized that we were talking past eachother. I've never seen a spey surgery done!!

I'm just referring to spey blades to cut testicles...

I've done my share of cutting. We don't treat it as a major surgery at all. Slice a piece of the scrotum off the bottom. Pull one testicles out at a time. Pull, pinch, and strip the membraines back. Squirt disinfectant into the wound..... send them on their way.


The rancher we go to roundup at, tends to try and band the calves...but most years that's not always possible. It is usually the calves that drop early, and are significantly bigger that have to be cut. They are too big for the small bands, and too small for the full size bands. We had "midsized" bands and tools, and they did not work either.

I think I've probably cut 30 or so calves in the past few years helping out....and I was only one of 5 or 6 cutting.

We do try to band rather than cut. But some years the roundup does not happen until the some of calves are too big to band, but still way to small for the adult bands.


Surprisingly..... they did not give me much in the way of "training".... watch two, then do a few with them watching giving instructions. Then have me show others.

There were vets present......they did no cutting. But were taking photos!

I have looked at some with "humps!!" The protrusion it affords might make it easier to grab the right blade in an admitted "stressful situation!!"
Speying is a stressful time!!
Maybe someone who actually performs this "operation" could chime in!!

That's a major surgery and not done with a pocket knife, in fact is never really done with cattle.

It is not as stressful as you would think. But I've been kicked, knocked back, and generally roughed up when the person holding the calf does not do their job. I've been kicked square in the nuts while attempting the cut, which kinda seems fitting.

I've not cut my self badly ever, but have poked my hand a bit. I have used clip point, drop point, warncliff, spear, and spey blades. I've also used a scalpel, which was less effective for me. (The blade was too small to do the cut of the scrotum in one clean cut.


I've also found the calves seem to react to the cutting and nut removal less than to the branding.

We also inject and tag the ears at the same time.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Double