I am a noob, and am willing to show it. Sebenza.. Holy crap!

[Applejacks]

I always heard the name "Sebenza" thrown around here, and saw a few pictures also. I said, "nice knife, I like it." Never thought twice about it though. Then I kept hearing so many people talk about it.. so I checked eBay and knifecenter... basically a four hundred dollar folder!?! I was shocked. Now that I see what it really is... I was hoping you fine gentlemen could enlighten me. WHat is it that makes it such an expensive knife? I have to admit, I can't stop thinking about it, and am thinking of purchasing one.. a small folder, not the large version. I have never purchased a knife that cost anything near that.. the closest I have gotten is a SOG Vision Titanium, and that was only like $180 or so.

 

[underaged!]

I was in the same boat as you a while ago. Except it was:

How 'bout that Mnandi!?

I sold every knife I wasn't using and downgraded my EDC user, and I never looked back.

 

[allenC]

It's a very well built knife to be sure.
But, in my opinion, the price is so high because (1) CR engages in a legal form of "price fixing", and (2) it is a symbol of wealth and elitism just like expensive watches and expensive pens, and (3) there are few competitors in its particular style.

Is it worth the asking price?

Only you can decide.

I bought one (and paid full retail) because, like yourself, I was curious about the Sebenza mystique.
I later sold it because, again, in my opinion, it is simply is not worth the asking price.

Good luck,
Allen

 

[cockroachfarm]

....(1) CR engages in a legal form of "price fixing", and (2) it is a symbol of wealth and elitism just like expensive watches and expensive pens......

Get that asbestos suit on, Allen! They're coming.

Personally, when I think of "price fixing", I think first of Apple!

A Sebenza is just a high-quality tool, priced according to what the market dictates.

 

[allenC]

A Sebenza is just a high-quality tool, priced according to what the market dictates.

Not true.
CR only allows a very small amount of variation from the MSRP.
Those who attempt to discount the knives more to undercut the competition will quickly find themselves no longer an authorized CR dealer.

 

[bSquirrel]

A Sebenza is just a high-quality tool, priced according to what the market dictates.

CR's market falls within a model of monopolistic competition. The distinguishing features of this model are: the producer tries to differentiate his product from the competition, thus cornering a niche and catering to a loyal customer base. However, because it is monopolistic competition, and many close (though not perfect) substitutes exist, the price is somewhat constrained by market forces. In a small niche market, however, microeconomics tells us that (without anti-trust laws, which don't apply to this because knives are knives and one maker of an easily substituted product doesnt qualify as a monopoly) this situation will find a maximal profit equilibrium at a price where the marginal revenue (the price of buying one additional unit) equals the marginal cost (which is the direct cost of the materials, plus in this case the aggregate change in revenue caused by a price change because CR has market power[differentiating this model from that of perfect competition]--price of course is affected by the quantity that the producer chooses to supply, so changing the price changes the demand and (obviously) the revenue). The upshot of all this is that the reason that CR charges so much is that people will pay it. CR can either sell all the knives he is capable of making at this price, or demand is inelastic and lowering prices will not increase sales enough to cover the revenue differential.
Long story short: the sebenza may be a good knife, but the price is artificially high because CR has convinced everyone that it is somehow very different from other knives.

 

[smokelaw1]

Long story short: the sebenza may be a good knife, but the price is artificially high because CR has convinced everyone that it is somehow very different from other knives.

If the end market (the consumers) believes the knife to be "worth it" then is the price really "artificially" high?

 

[DaveH]

Long story short: the sebenza may be a good knife, but the price is artificially high because CR has convinced everyone that it is somehow very different from other knives.

I don't believe the price is artificially high*. If that's true then why can't companies make as good or better knife for lower cost (or the same cost)? None currently do.

They've convinced people by having a good design with a very good (eg quality) implementation. Which is the very reason why one should pay more for a knife.

There's no "convincing", there just "is".

* There one retailer that boosts their retail price of more expensive sebenzas $100 above normal price. They have no trouble selling out of them. which to me indicates that the price is too low everywhere else.

 

[WadeF]

People have no problem buying a $400 watch, or a $5,000 watch, etc. Why pay so much for a watch when you can get a decent watch for $30-50?

If you want something that is specialized, more refined, etc, you are going to pay more for it.

 

[Buzzbait]

WHat is it that makes it such an expensive knife?

Chris Reeve has chosen that his knives be sold for that price. It's a simple as that.

Whether the Sebenza is worth that price, or not, is another matter entirely. The materials are very good. The fit and finish is far beyond the average production folder. Certain aspects of the Sebenza design are light years ahead of the competition. Warranty service is generally very good. The actual level of functionality, coupled with the aesthetics of the design, are up to the individual to decide.

Just keep in mind that the knife industry is a wonderful example of diminishing returns. You generally pay a lot more money for a very small gain.

 

[Saberman]

Chris Reeve has chosen that his knives be sold for that price. It's a simple as that.

Whether the Sebenza is worth that price, or not, is another matter entirely. The materials are very good. The fit and finish is far beyond the average production folder. Certain aspects of the Sebenza design are light years ahead of the competition. Warranty service is generally very good. The actual level of functionality, coupled with the aesthetics of the design, are up to the individual to decide.

Just keep in mind that the knife industry is a wonderful example of diminishing returns. You generally pay a lot more money for a very small gain.

He has some good points. I don't think you can find a better folder for the price. Including some customs in the same range. But that's my opinion.

As for price? Keep your eye's open on the secondary market. There is no reason to pay the MSRP. There was a small graphic that just sold for $315.

 

[thombrogan]

If the price isn't set by government fiat, there's nothing artificial about it.

Keynesians... :barf: Mises dashes such fallacies to pieces.

Applejacks,

Maybe you could find someone to loan you a Sebenza for a week to see if it meets your expectations of a $350-400 folder?

 

[Applejacks]

It's a very well built knife to be sure.
But, in my opinion, the price is so high because (1) CR engages in a legal form of "price fixing", and (2) it is a symbol of wealth and elitism just like expensive watches and expensive pens, and (3) there are few competitors in its particular style.

Is it worth the asking price?

Only you can decide.

I bought one (and paid full retail) because, like yourself, I was curious about the Sebenza mystique.
I later sold it because, again, in my opinion, it is simply is not worth the asking price.

Good luck,
Allen

Interesting. Thanks. I have a eerie feeling I am going to do the same.

 

[tirod3]

I want to respectfully submit that the same arguments made in defense of a similarly priced folder attract a lot of strong opinion.

Most of what has been said here is true across the board for any titanium framelock folder with a carefully chosen dealership. As noted about watches, even cars are subject to it. It became painfully obvious when Mercedes Benz jacked up the price range across the board to keep Beverly Hills housekeepers off their showroom floor.

Vipers don't sell for Neon prices, even if the incremental increase in cost really isn't a big as it looks. But the Viper buyer doesn't want to see himself coming the other way every ten minutes, and knows he is paying for exclusivity.

The first maker to come up with a titanium framelock for $100 may be able to sell a lot, but he might also be shooting himself in the foot. Making high technology common as dirt wipes out the profit potential and turns it into a commodity.

"Oh, gee, which one of my 15 different makes and models of titanium framelocks do I want to carry today?" will be a boring thread in time.

 

[Applejacks]

Chris Reeve has chosen that his knives be sold for that price. It's a simple as that.

Whether the Sebenza is worth that price, or not, is another matter entirely. The materials are very good. The fit and finish is far beyond the average production folder. Certain aspects of the Sebenza design are light years ahead of the competition. Warranty service is generally very good. The actual level of functionality, coupled with the aesthetics of the design, are up to the individual to decide.

Just keep in mind that the knife industry is a wonderful example of diminishing returns. You generally pay a lot more money for a very small gain.

Thank you sir. What aspects of the Sebenza are "light years ahead"?

 

[Applejacks]

He has some good points. I don't think you can find a better folder for the price. Including some customs in the same range. But that's my opinion.

As for price? Keep your eye's open on the secondary market. There is no reason to pay the MSRP. There was a small graphic that just sold for $315.

Appreciate it. Just never really wanted a previously owned knife for some reason.. fearful of getting OJ's old blade.

 

[Applejacks]

If the price isn't set by government fiat, there's nothing artificial about it.

Keynesians... :barf: Mises dashes such fallacies to pieces.

Applejacks,

Maybe you could find someone to loan you a Sebenza for a week to see if it meets your expectations of a $350-400 folder?

I hate the notion of borrowing someones. I would feel terrible if I returned it to them in anything less than pristine condition.

 

[Fooj]

WHat is it that makes it such an expensive knife?

Applejacks -- good question. I remember asking myself that question 15 or so years ago, with a Vic SAK in my pack and a Spyderco Police model clipped in my pocket (and I still like these knives to this day).

You've no doubt heard all the comments about tight tolerances, unsurpassed quality, etc., etc. All true stuff. I've had the privilege of having a factory tour at several knife companies, including CRK. There's not a better exercise to explain why these knives demand and earn the price that the market bears. As a 23 year veteran in engineering (R&D and materials), I can say that Chris's products are engineered to level that few products achieve -- design, materials, and manufacturing process are some of the best I've seen from ANY industry. Chris is a perfectionist -- excellence in product architecture, stickler for implementation details. CRK uses only the finest raw materials. They do a lot of the work in house (as opposed to cheaper outsourcing) because they can't find vendors to produce to the quality standards that CRK demands. This all costs.

Of course, not everyone has the opportunity go to Boise to attend a shop tour. The next best thing is to view the DVD "The Exquisite Blade -- The Legend of Chris Reeve Knives". It's not sales hype -- very informational. If you watch this, you'll be well on your way to understanding the value of a Sebenza, as well as the other CRK products. Quite frankly, I consider the Sebenza a bargain, given what goes into it.

Best of luck in your choices.

 

[plowboy]

Holy cow!

bSquirrel and thombrogan must be economists. I mean talking about market structure models and Keynes and vonMises....kinda scarcy!

We do usually think of purchases within a market system as being voluntary. If they are voluntary, consumer preferences are such that the product is viewed as being worth the price to those engaging in the transaction. There are subsititutes.... Either of you guys want to discuss own price elasticity of a Sebenza? Damn, now I sound like an economist....oh, I am.

The sebenza is a great knife. Worth the price? It's expensive, but it's simplicity and non-in-your-face design really appeals to me.

It's a clean, simple and strong knife. I like it.

 

[Whoever Wherever]

Personaly I will never buy a $400 production no matter how smooth or well made. Rick Hinderer XM-18, one of the hottest knives going is only $400! Still, Seb fans know what they are gona get, a well made knife with great materials and good washers/fit n finish. Its certainly a good knife.