I am a noob, and am willing to show it. Sebenza.. Holy crap!

tirod3 said:
I want to respectfully submit that the same arguments made in defense of a similarly priced folder attract a lot of strong opinion. :D

The first maker to come up with a titanium framelock for $100 may be able to sell a lot, but he might also be shooting himself in the foot. Making high technology common as dirt wipes out the profit potential and turns it into a commodity.
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Kershaw makes several Titanium Framelocks. The Original Ti Bumps in Blue, Green or Grey are examples of great knives with Titanium Framelock handles that can be found for less than $150! The new ZDP Cyclone will have a Titanium Framelock handle also and will probably only be about $200 from a good dealer!
 
bSquirrel said:
.....the price is artificially high because CR has convinced everyone that it is somehow very different from other knives.
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Do you think you could convince me that a blade is centered when it isn't? ;)

I don't believe CR has "convinced" anyone that this knife is "different" than others (except maybe in fit and finish) and that's why the price is controlled. I also don't believe that the price is "artificially" high.

Almost all of us here vote with our wallets. Even if CR "forced" dealers to charge full retail, I doubt if sales would be greatly affected.
 
CR does force dealers to charge full retail, compare prices on retail sites and CR's site. Lots of companies disallow their products being sold at a discount.
 
I doubt if the dealers are selling Sebenzas as much as they would be if they discounted it. I would discount if I was a dealer no matter what! Hey, you paid CRK what they wanted, so you should decide on how much to profit. I am sure they would sell a lot.
 
alejandrino said:
I doubt if the dealers are selling Sebenzas as much as they would be if they discounted it. I would discount if I was a dealer no matter what! Hey, you paid CRK what they wanted, so you should decide on how much to profit. I am sure they would sell a lot.
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If you discount a price controled product you will be pulled from the wholesalers lists. You usually sign into such an agreement to start being a dealer and therefore obligate yourself in such matters.
 
I love the Sebenza, nothing but a Scott Cook Lochsa can match it for quality of fit and finish. It's all about precision with the Sebenza IMO. I've had plenty of customs from most of the top makers and the Sebenza is what is in my pocket every day. Why? Because it's just that good. It's simple and it works. It has the best pocket clip ever and it's easy to take apart, clean and put back together perfectly (in large part because of the pivot bushing). Some people don't understand or don't appreciate it, that's cool. It's not for everyone.

To the person who mentioned that CRK has "convinced" everyone...that is foolish. CRK barely advertises and barely even talks about what makes their knives special on their website. They don't really market themselves all that well. They let their knives speak for themselves IMO.
 
slide13 said:
To the person who mentioned that CRK has "convinced" everyone...that is foolish. CRK barely advertises and barely even talks about what makes their knives special on their website. They don't really market themselves all that well. They let their knives speak for themselves IMO.
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The fixed price is CRK speaking, price is part of the marketing mix and passes on information to the consumer.

Would you buy a diamond engagement ring from Wal-mart? More importantly, would you tell your girl you did? :D
 
you misunderstood me

I mean that people believe that there is something inherently different, not that CR actively marketed it. THough active marketing is usually integral to product differentiation, it is not a necessary condition for monopolistic competition.
 
hardheart said:
The fixed price is CRK speaking, price is part of the marketing mix and passes on information to the consumer.

Would you buy a diamond engagement ring from Wal-mart? More importantly, would you tell your girl you did? :D
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Yes, if it was the same product as elsewhere. To the latter question, that's a tough one.:D
 
slide13 said:
....To the person who mentioned that CRK has "convinced" everyone...that is foolish....
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Thanks, slide - that's what I was trying to say. ;) (I swore years ago not to get involved in Sebenza or Strider threads, but that word "convinced" got to me.)
 
Amazing seb, How Sweet thou art,
included with, a wrench for Meeeee.

I once had no, but now I have,
the best, for all, to seeeee.

May the best be with you.

P-CR0841.jpg
 
nygiantsfan3342 said:
Kershaw makes several Titanium Framelocks. The Original Ti Bumps in Blue, Green or Grey are examples of great knives with Titanium Framelock handles that can be found for less than $150! The new ZDP Cyclone will have a Titanium Framelock handle also and will probably only be about $200 from a good dealer!
Click to expand...

How bout the CRKT S-2 series? Yeah, it was made somewhere in asia. Yes, it was discontinued and could be bought for a song (I think I paid $25 for a small S-2, new, from SMKW some time back). Still, fit and finish are very good, and you've got your titanium framelock right there. Now I'm sure some Sebenzaphiles are currently horrified and offended that I would even remotely suggest a comparison between these two knives, but it does call into question a 1600% price difference vs a ??? difference in quality.
 
hardheart said:
The fixed price is CRK speaking, price is part of the marketing mix and passes on information to the consumer.

Would you buy a diamond engagement ring from Wal-mart? More importantly, would you tell your girl you did? :D
Click to expand...


I disagree. CRK trying to keep a hold on the retail prices is a business decision, but it doesn't mean they are using that as a means to express the superiority of their product. They use this as a tool to help protect their brick and mortar retailers and I'm ok with that. I wish there were more CRK dealerss out there where people could go and handle a knife. It's already hard enough to find a decently stocked knife shop these days. The internet is great, but a low price isn't everything. As an employee in an industry that is still working on balancing the competition between internet and physical stores I respect their decision. No one is forced to buy their product and many people choose not too for whatever reason. That being said, I have never come across a knife that could match the Sebenza at any price except for a Scott Cook Lochsa. There are other great knives out there that are less expensive, but they just can't match the Seb IMO.
 
I paid 425.00 for my classic micarta sebenza; its perfect in every way;i think the price is high;was it worth it? i'm still not sure,but one thing that makes me keep it is the trend of makers like buck ,gerber and others going to the far east,i would rather have one sebenza than 10 or 20 knives made in tawain or china........
 
usually avoid these threads, but here are a few thoughts about Sebenzas.

1. If you're not really sure you want one, buy used. This is true even if you have a bias against used knives. Keep in mind CRK will refurbish a Sebenza and make it look new for a modest fee. Anyway, the point of buying used is that if you decide it's not for you, you can sell it for what you paid for it.

2. Occassionally, I read someone saying, in effect, "I looked at a Sebenza in a store [or knife show or gun show] and I wasn't wowed." I can undertand that feeling -- I had it at first too. But a Sebenza is about details that may not be apparent with a brief, casual inspection. In addition, a brand new Sebenza is not as good as one that's been properly broken in and used for a couple of years.

3. Some may disagree, but taking mine apart and putting them back together heghtened my appreciation for the precision and simplicity of design.

4. I make a middle class income, drive a Saturn (:barf:) and live in a small house, and wear a watch that cost less than $100. I didn't buy a Sebenza to show off or be a snob. I have yet to have someone notice my knife and say they were imppressed by it, and I don't seek that. It was more a response to a quest for quality that I found lacking in other production knives. I'd simply rather have one Sebenza than several less expensive knives. That being said, I still buy, own, use and appreciate other knives. You may disagree with my approach, but you can't accurately say it's snobbery. In any event, people who assume others' motives along these lines are naive.
 
I paid $415 shipped for my Large Micarta Serrated, brand spankin new from a auth. dealer. Sometimes when you ask, thou shall recieve. I would have bought it at full price though because I made the decision to buy it, unbound with no gun to my head. There is always a percieved value in a product. You have to ask yourself if it is worth it or not. If it is going to be your only knive, gets used every day and may save your life, you DO NOT worry about price. I love the feel and the overall quality of the Sebenzas.
 
I mentioned in an earlier post that I like my Sebenza, but you are correct in saying they are expensive.

It took me a long time to decide on one. I went through the very same logic that has already been mentioned in this tread....I kept thinking of how many other good knives I could buy for the price of one Sebenza. It just didn't make sense to spend that on one productiong folder. I wrestled and wrestled with the idea. Then one day I was talking to Tom at NewGraham (we had discussed Sebenzas a few times) and out-of-the-blue I said "Tom, add a Sebenza to my order"...he did of course. I don't regret it. In fact, I expect to own more in the days to come.

I don't know if you'll like them are not, but if you are thinking about one you may as well buy it. That way you can stop wondering...you'll know. If you don't like it, then you can sell it later.

They are fine knives that are simple, strong and make most of us smile.
:)
 
bSquirrel said:
The producer is maximizing his profits, which results in a deadweight loss to both consumer and producer surplus, with some consumer surplus being transferred to the producer. This basically means that CR shafts the buyer by artificially capping production to inflate prices far enough above costs to limit demand to a lower than efficient output. An efficient equilibrium would be perfect 1st degree price descrimination, in which case the seller charges the maximal price each person will pay, and each person pays a different price (of course the seller doesnt sell for less than the marginal costs). This would transfer all the consumer surplus to producer surplus, but it would result in a pareto efficent allocation. in a perfectly competitive market, the producer produces the quantity at which his marginal cost of the output, i.e. the cost of producing one more, equals the marginal revenue (i.e. the price of one unit) because all producers face the same market demand function on which they have an effect that approaches zero. Essentially, they are price takers instead of price setters. If the producer chooses the price, he produces a market inefficient outcome because there is some amount of surplus right of the actual equilibrium which simply is never generated. This is the fundamental issue with patents, and the reason that they expire after several years. Without them, there is no incentive to invest in R&D, and with them you end up gauging the customer....
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With all due respect, bsquirell, you're just showing off. When I was a kid, we used to call guys like you "hotdogs." This isn't economics class, this is a knife discussion forum. The long and short of it is, Reeve is balancing production with profit. Maybe the guy just doesn't see a long term upside to production growth. Sure, he could lower prices, at which point, demand might take off. That means he then has to expand production, which just might not be feasible in the long term. Or maybe he just doesn't want the expansion headaches, so he stays small. Then again, there just might be a demand cap and lower prices mean nothing more than less profit. In that case, he stays small.
 
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