I am a noob, and am willing to show it. Sebenza.. Holy crap!

Applejacks said:
Thank you sir. What aspects of the Sebenza are "light years ahead"?
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The first thing that comes to mind is the pivot system. The design is very different from the offerings of other manufacturers. You often hear people talking about their new BrandX folder, and how it has no horizontal blade play. These comments are usually a load of poo. It may seem like there's no blade play, after owning some cheapo knife. The blade play, in reality, is still there. Open the knife and apply pressure to the blade horizontally. You can tighten the pivot so tight that the folder won't even open anymore, and horizontal blade play still exists in your average folder.

The Sebenza is the only folder I've ever held that truly had ZERO blade play. Zero blade play when the knife is closed. Zero blade play when the knife is opened, yet without the lock bar engaged. Zero blade play with the lock bar engaged. And still the Sebenza glides open smoothly. The design of the pivot assembly is simply remarkable. When coupled with close manufacturing tolerances, this create a knife with no horizontal blade play whatsoever. You have to try it in your own hand, and take it apart and reassemble the pivot to believe it.
 
Buzzbait said:
The first thing that comes to mind is the pivot system. The design is very different from the offerings of other manufacturers. You often hear people talking about their new BrandX folder, and how it has no horizontal blade play. These comments are usually a load of poo. It may seem like there's no blade play, after owning some cheapo knife. The blade play, in reality, is still there. Open the knife and apply pressure to the blade horizontally. You can tighten the pivot so tight that the folder won't even open anymore, and horizontal blade play still exists in your average folder.

The Sebenza is the only folder I've ever held that truly had ZERO blade play. Zero blade play when the knife is closed. Zero blade play when the knife is opened, yet without the lock bar engaged. Zero blade play with the lock bar engaged. And still the Sebenza glides open smoothly. The design of the pivot assembly is simply remarkable. When coupled with close manufacturing tolerances, this create a knife with no horizontal blade play whatsoever. You have to try it in your own hand, and take it apart and reassemble the pivot to believe it.
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Plenty of the best folder makers in that price range came out of the aerospace/aircraft industry and are capable of tighter tolerances on there knives than a sebenza. Machinists like R.J. Martin, Todd Begg and Rick Hinderer are at the top of there game. The tolerances on sebenza knives is not above such makers in any way shape or form. The pivot is nice but there are many great pivot designs that work as well. Ever had a Darrel Ralph? I dont think it is fair to try and tell a newbie that custom manufacturers of that callibre have blade play where the Sebenza doesnt.
 
When I said "BrandX", I was referring to production brands, not customs. I'm sorry that was not more apparent.

I also said, "the only folder I've ever held that truly had ZERO blade play". I still hold by my words. If you have held customs with better fit than a Sebenza, all the more power to you. I personally have not.
 
I dont think it is fair to try and tell a newbie that custom manufacturers of that callibre have blade play where the Sebenza doesnt.
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True, but not all custom makers are the same or have the same qualities. Besides, most of those you mention are either more expensive than a seb or hard to get ahold of.
 
Gotcha, It is true that Sebz's are tight as you can get from production. Still all three makers I listed sell folders in the same price range as Sebz. Rick starts at 400 and Begg around 600 (I think the beggs should be compared to the exotic handle mat sebz since the beggs are all inlaid) I think. I just didnt want the new guy to think that Sebz were the be all end all of fit and finish or lack of blade play. They are nice knives for shure, I've never been able to swallow it and buy one, or a strider. Maybe someday I will remedy this =P. Also it is very true that many expensive customs are not of the best fit and finish (a sad fact).
 
I'll just keep my remarks simple. No economics or talk about tolerances, etc., since I don't know all that much about that stuff. But, the first time I made the plunge and bought a Sebenza, I took it out of the box and opened it up. And my exact expression was "Wow..." I know that's about as unscientific as you'll ever hear, but there's just something remarkable about that knife. I have four Sebs, now and every single one of them, though manufactured over the course of five calendar years, has that same impressive "Wow" factor, when you open, use and close the knife. All of them perfect. The same with Mnandi's. I've had/have six of them and they are all incomparably perfect. You know when you spend your money you'll get your money's worth. And when you use it, you'll feel the difference. It's as simple as that.
 
One of the differences with a Sebenza and custom folders is every Sebenza I've handled (and its been well over a dozen) has the same fit and finish,the same smoothness.The custom makers will make better looking folders.The big difference with the customs even the ones mentioned is you will find variation in fit and finish,smoothness.A few yrs.ago I bought a Hinderer folder before he was as hot as he is now.I handeled about 4 or 5 different folders before I found one that matched the fit and smoothness of a Sebenza.Now R.Hinderer is in my opinion one of the best folder makers.The same goes for RJ Martin(I've got his Q-30) and Begg.These 3 makers are amoung the top in the field.It may surprise you but there are custom folders that do'nt even come close to the fit and smoothness of a Sebenza.I've gone to shows where some folders had blade play,uneven grinds,blades not centered,etc. and some of them were rather expensive.
BTW how come I rarely see threads about the price of Striders or William Henry's
 
Applejacks said:
Appreciate it. Just never really wanted a previously owned knife for some reason.. fearful of getting OJ's old blade.
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Hate to change the subject but, what kind of knife did OJ use? Googled it and it looks like it was a Cold Steel Defender II Push Dagger
 
I'm happy to have stumbled upon this thread since I was almost going to post something similar myself. Pretty much confirms my suspisions.

Now I'm not belittling the Sebenza in any way (I don't have one), but I'm also not surprized to see owner/enthusiast supporting the "light-years beyond" mythos. I'm sure it's a nice knife, but at that price it better be.

I have been "wowed" by sub-$100 production folders.

I also have a friend that returned his Sebenza since he found the handle uncomfortable. To each his own. For me, I'd rather own several very, very good production folders for the same money that have varying ergonomics, opening mechanisms, locks, etc, and discover the EDC blade that works best for me at a given time.
 
you're paying ~$150 for the CR name and the tolerances at the pivot, essentially. You can buy other S30V titanium framelocks all day long. If you want a Seb, then buy one. I personally have never understood the desire for one, can't see a reason to spend that much on the blade steel, lock, or the handle shape.
 
smokelaw1 said:
If the end market (the consumers) believes the knife to be "worth it" then is the price really "artificially" high?
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Yes. The producer is maximizing his profits, which results in a deadweight loss to both consumer and producer surplus, with some consumer surplus being transferred to the producer. This basically means that CR shafts the buyer by artificially capping production to inflate prices far enough above costs to limit demand to a lower than efficient output. An efficient equilibrium would be perfect 1st degree price descrimination, in which case the seller charges the maximal price each person will pay, and each person pays a different price (of course the seller doesnt sell for less than the marginal costs). This would transfer all the consumer surplus to producer surplus, but it would result in a pareto efficent allocation. in a perfectly competitive market, the producer produces the quantity at which his marginal cost of the output, i.e. the cost of producing one more, equals the marginal revenue (i.e. the price of one unit) because all producers face the same market demand function on which they have an effect that approaches zero. Essentially, they are price takers instead of price setters. If the producer chooses the price, he produces a market inefficient outcome because there is some amount of surplus right of the actual equilibrium which simply is never generated. This is the fundamental issue with patents, and the reason that they expire after several years. Without them, there is no incentive to invest in R&D, and with them you end up gauging the customer.


WadeF said:
People have no problem buying a $400 watch, or a $5,000 watch, etc. Why pay so much for a watch when you can get a decent watch for $30-50?

If you want something that is specialized, more refined, etc, you are going to pay more for it.
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these are called luxury goods, as opposed to normal, inferior and necessary goods. With luxury goods, demand increases with income, but at a greater relative rate. i.e. your income increases 10%, your consumption increases by more than 10%--or the percent of your income spent on that good increases. They are a special case. I suppose this knife might be considered a luxury good, but generally this wouldn't really apply to a knife. More typical examples of luxury items would be cars, watches of course, expensive jewelry, etc.
 
But, the first time I made the plunge and bought a Sebenza, I took it out of the box and opened it up. And my exact expression was "Wow..."
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Maybe that's why I sold mine.
When I first took it out of the box I was not "wowed".
In fact, I was just a tad disappointed considering how much I had paid.
Buyer's remorse I suppose.
 
without being able to account for tastes & preferences, it's hard to call pricing on premium products giving the consumer the shaft. The Sebenza is a prestige good. I don't myself understand how such a plain jane design became a veblen, but I think business for the Seb would fall dramatically if it started getting priced with Skirmishes and Buck Mayos. People want to pay $300+ because that indicates quality or something, it isn't a 'sexy' design by the estimation of many.
 
hardheart said:
without being able to account for tastes & preferences, it's hard to call pricing on premium products giving the consumer the shaft. The Sebenza is a prestige good. I don't myself understand how such a plain jane design became a veblen, but I think business for the Seb would fall dramatically if it started getting priced with Skirmishes and Buck Mayos. People want to pay $300+ because that indicates quality or something, it isn't a 'sexy' design by the estimation of many.
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so it's a special case where CR has managed to exploit a market inefficiency. Basically, people don't act rationally, therefore the Sebenza sells. Of course there are a number of ways that one could explain this anomaly, but I haven't slept in 3 days (look through my posts. I go on every once in a while to take a break from work, and I've gotten 6 hours of sleep total since monday) so I'm done with thinkin econ for a little while
 
just got my Sebenza yesterday--now I understand...
What a nice knife! Picked it up used (a large Sebbie) and frame shows some pocket wear but that's all. Very tight, blade in great shape and it fits and feels great.
 
well, irrationality drives a lot of consumption. I don't fault CR for taking advantage of it, I just don't buy their knives.
 
I have no problem with CR

the objective fact remains that they are exploiting a market inefficiency. This is why it's called the dismal science.
 
bSquirel
I agree that people don't react rationally. With the information on the internet and on this forum in particular information and perfect knowledge becomes closer to reality. You seem to know your economics but the perception that CRK is "screwing customers" doesn't hold water. Yeah they could maybe get away with it in the very short term but in the long run the demand for their products would fall through the floor if they didn't deliver. They make products that people are willing to buy at the prices they set. I would even make the arguement that they are underpriced due to the fact that they seem to be able to sell what they make and have a waiting list.
 
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