I am starting to think custom knives are outdated.

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kgriggs8

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As far as pure utility goes, I can no longer see any real reason to spend the cash on a custom knife. I have owned and own a few customs myself. I am not saying they are not worth the money because the value is based on the unique factor and art work. I am talking about as a real working knife, you can get production knives that will do everything a custom will do and at a fraction of the price.

If you want a fixed blade for hunting, Bark River or several other makers can do the job for about $100. These knives will do everything a custom will do and are made so well than quality is not an issue. There is no loss in preformance. They may not look as cool or have pearl and damascus materials but that doesn't stop them from working.

As for folder, it is even worse for customs. Benchmade, Spyderco, Al Mar, Seki-cut, and a host of other makers provide top notch folders that often out preform the best customs. Most of the time, $100 will get you what it would take $400-1000 for a custom knife.

So speaking from a purely preformance aspect, I think the justification for buying a custom is gone. Production knives are just too darn good now. IF you want a piece of art, that is another story but don't try and tell me that my $100 Seki-Cut Bob Lum Encounter will not preform as well as a $500 custom of the same design. It will and I know it.
 
From a utility point I think you are right. The same as a mobile home is as useful a shelter as a mansion.

Not everything is purely about utility. Elegance, grace, craftsmanship, asthetics have a very inportant place in the quality of our lives.
 
"I am starting to think custom knives are outdated"

It sounds like you are not starting, it sounds to me like you have already decided.

I don't have opinions on straight knives, so I will leave that to others.

I agree that in regard to steels, heat treatment and lock design that there are several high-quality manufacturers that can make a knife that competes equally as tools with knives made by small and one-person shops.

However, quite a bit of the improvement in the "factory" knife market are a direct result of collaborations with "custom" knifemakers. In fact, you could argue that the custom knife market drove the factory market to much higher levels of performance when the factory shops realized that cutomers were willing to pay a whole lot for a quality product - more than they could have imagined.

I don't think small shops and one-person shops are outdated. For one thing, there are more custom knives being sold for higher prices than ever before, so they are not outdated yet. But more importantly, design improvements can be pioneered just as easily by a small shop as the more systematic approaches of the larger makers.

Spyderco and Kershaw in particular are doing a great job of supplementing their design capabilities by working regularly with makers in R&D rather than just licensing designs. It is a mutually supportive combination of the two business models at this time. Whether it will shift in the future toward the larger shops as primary innovators remains to be seen.
 
I own a couple customs and I agree that production knives have come a long way in closely matching and, in some cases, exceeding the "quality" of customs (i.e., fit and finish, materials used, design, functionality & durability).

For me though, among those things listed above, an element of "quality" is also my knowing that a world class bladesmith/knifemaker type a guy made my custom knife with his own two hands. This inherently distinguishing characteristic is what seperates the production knives from the hand made knives, especially in terms of pride of ownership and uniqueness and this is really what makes customs worth paying the high price for, IMO.

Just because many production knives look as nice and can now chop down an oak tree as fast as a custom is not necessarily the reason I'd begin to choose a production knife over one of my custom knives.
 
My customs have a personality.....And as someone here put, they have a soul. They each have a piece of the maker in them, that makes them incredibly special. Yes, productions have come a long way, but can not compare to Customs. There is so much MORE to it than just being a knife; like RWS said, their IS the pride in ownership, the uniqueness of the knife, and the realtionship that you develop with the maker. All these things make a Custom knife well worth their price.
 
Considering the premise of this thread....I guess we should all be using Bic pens and wearing Timex watches.

?!?!?!?


Dennis Greenbaum :cool:
 
Original oil paintings are outdated. You can buy a print that looks just as good hanging on your wall for a fraction of the price.
 
kgriggs8 said:
As for folder, it is even worse for customs. Benchmade, Spyderco, Al Mar, Seki-cut, and a host of other makers provide top notch folders that often out preform the best customs.
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I completely disagree with that statement. Though the production knife may function as well as, I don't believe that it will out perform the best customs.
 
Outdated may not be the best description. It used to be that custom rifles were, on average, more accurate than production. Machines have improved to the point that tolerances in production now rival the most precise hand fitting. Although I have a few custom arms that cannot outperform some of my production pieces, they are still "superior" and not outdated. I'm one of those who prefers to use classics just because they are. I'm uninterested in racy looking molded stocks with recoil mechanisms, range compensating optics, sights that glow in the dark, and laser engraving. The same with the knives that I consider an accessory to firearms. Outdated? Never to me, even when I become outdated someday. Regards, ss.
 
I am about to receive a custom Bowie Fighter from Matt Lamey. Twelve inch blade 02 steel.
I have looked for a knife like this for three years.
Many martial artists use the cliche "a knife should be an extension of the hand" ask them what they mean you will usually here how your technique should be good enough so you are capable without the blade and it just increases your reach.
It is a different world with a knife . a fighter should change direction in a heartbeat, balance is incredibly important. sure you got to have feel and technique.
A true fast fighter particulerly over 10 inches can be made by very few. though every maker loves to say tactical. You help in the design.
And the knife is alive in your hand. you own something no one else does.
 
I agree with Kieth.Some of the grinds these custom knives have,and the heat treat on the steel......Way better performance,IMO.
I have some production slips,and folders,but a lot of times when I go to put the knives in my pockets for the day,I am going for my custom stuff.My reasoning is this :
If I am going to own these knives,I may as well use them.Most all my custom knives are user types,no real Art types.
So the way it is for me,and moreso now,than a year ago,my production folders and slips sit on display,and I'm carrying custom knives,and using them.
-Vince
Edited in - I gotta add this.If you think your Queen knives are as good as my flat groung S30V Al Warren trapper is,or 440V from Tony Bose.
Or the smooth precision of a JL Williams folder,or JW Smith,or Randy Doucette,to name a few...
Or how 'bout a hollow grind from Bob Dozier
I just got in a Scandi Grind S30V Bird and trout,from Charlie May - This particular knife,you would actually have to try it,to appreciate what I'm thinking.
All my kitchen knives...Hell,I don't even look at them the same way,using Luc Burnley,Brian Goode,Bob Dozier,in the kitchen.
I kinda can't relate any more,to agreeing,that production stuff is just as good.Yes.it will do it,but once you get into customs,It is hard to get the same enjoyment out of using and carrying production knives.
Just my $.02
-Vince
Adding more-You want to know what really flipped me on my thinking on this....My wife....She thinks nothing,of washing a pot,in the sink,with an $8000 wedding set on her finger,right in there.So why should I,not use and carry my custom knives,Right,or what !?
 
Show me a factory slip joint that is half the knife of a Tony Bose. Not one out there that even comes close.

I could say the same about a number of custom bowies also. But I guess you're just speaking of tacticals and hunters.
 
"As for folder, it is even worse for customs. Benchmade, Spyderco, Al Mar, Seki-cut, and a host of other makers provide top notch folders that often out preform the best customs. Most of the time, $100 will get you what it would take $400-1000 for a custom knife."

I disagree with you on that statement!! There is no way a production IS going to be out a hand rubbed or any Custom balde for that matter.
 
Sorry, but I completely fail to see the point of this thread. Why bother wasting the time to post in a custom knife forum that you don't see the point of custom knives? Am I missing something?
 
TheKnifeCollector said:
My customs have a personality.....And as someone here put, they have a soul. They each have a piece of the maker in them, that makes them incredibly special. Yes, productions have come a long way, but can not compare to Customs. There is so much MORE to it than just being a knife; like RWS said, their IS the pride in ownership, the uniqueness of the knife, and the realtionship that you develop with the maker. All these things make a Custom knife well worth their price.
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THAT is why I buy customs and will continue too, reading down the posts I wondered who would mention what I feel. TKC has got it right, customs many times "like I have said before and others" have a soul, and a relationship, a personality that you will NEVER find in a production.
 
Tballetta said:
From a utility point I think you are right. The same as a mobile home is as useful a shelter as a mansion.

Not everything is purely about utility. Elegance, grace, craftsmanship, asthetics have a very inportant place in the quality of our lives.
Click to expand...

Amen brother......
 
I have as many production knives as customs, good ones, too; Benchmade, Spyderco, William Henry, Microtech, Chris Reeve, Kershaw.....

Historically, production knives were not that good, then they got really good, and so it goes, back and forth.

I'll address using qualities only, as that is what Griggs started with, he seems to "get" the art aspect of it.

1. Custom knives can be made to fit specific needs, like people with only 3 fingers. They can be created from the ground up with this in mind. I know of a knife created for a man with only one hand, designed so he can use it at a restaurant to eat his meals with a minimum of fuss.

2. The geometry and heat treat of a custom is generally optimized, in a production knife, compromises are generally made. With a production knife, the manufacturers are trying to decide what the knife should do in general terms, and who would use it. With a custom knife, the maker can talk with the user, get an idea of ideal edge geometry, and what the knife will be used for to optomize hardness, toughness or sharpness depending upon needs. Weight and balance can also be considered.

3. Materials in use. When considering use, comfort and purpose can be considered. If a knife will see hard use, the maker may suggest a handle like lignum vitae or African blackwood which will stand up to drops, knocks and wet/dry well, but will not, depending upon handle shape, create "hot spots" or discomfort for long periods of use. This might come in really handy when butchering meats, or fish. Also, methods of construction might be considered to make the knife as water resistant as possible, or vibration resistant as possible, maybe by using a tuning fork, as one maker did as written about in this month's Blade. In order to make as uniform and quality a product as possible, from a production standpoint, these types of materials are usually not considered.

4. Folders I like the Axis Lock at lot, but it was created by custom makers for Benchmade, knife company engineers did not create it, custom knifemakers did. Same for the D.O.G. lock, the T.O.A.D, the Sawby Self-lock, the E-lock....invariably when the custom is made, with a unique lock like this, the materials and fit are better in the custom than the production version. I have both a Groove by Kershaw, and a Havoc by R.J. Martin, and simply put, the custom is better. It is sharper, made of superior steel, has a top quality heat treat, and rolls like butter. The production version is very good, the custom is better.

This is not meant to be all inclusive or dismissive of production knives. I like them, I own them, I use them. They are not, however, likely to replace my custom knives in use any time soon. They supplement them.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
kgriggs8 said:
Signature line: It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit thoeries, instead of theories to suit facts.
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I find this smacking with irony. ;)

I understand your point and it's valid to a large degree. That said, RWS talked about quality and pride of ownership. Suzanne called it soul. straitshot likes the classics. Everyone has a rebuttal.

It ain't just about pearl and damascus.

More to the point--why are you disgruntled? You know this would stir up folks. It's a slap in the face to makers, collectors, and dealers--some of whom have committed to making their living with custom knives.

Why?

Coop
 
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