I am starting to think custom knives are outdated.

[OregonEdge]

I agree with part of what you say... from a fuctional standpoint... but without going into detail, I disagree about customs because part of the value to me is the MAN (or woman) behind the blade. The hand work that goes into a knife that is even more remarkable when it was done by hand rather than a CNC computerized machine (even small makers are using CNC's and selling their stuff at hand made prices... ie Begg, Hawk). ONE OTHER THING: I still treasure the belief that goes back a 1000 years... that the soul of the maker goes with the knife. That's what you are buying. Back in the good ol days, when a maker was found guilty of a crime or dishonored... many warriors would throw away their swords by that maker as that shame is transferred to the blade.

 

[NDallyn]

Let me say first that I strongly believe that the custom market provides an informal "check" against lapses in quality of production blades. Without the custom bladesmith, the consumer has very little to compare a factory blade with. I have only been making for 3-4 years now, but I have seen tremendous improvements in factory blades that have come about due to the custom maker serving as an informal R&D dept. for the factories (material use, form and function, etc.). Because of this, the custom knife is an integral part of the cutlery industry as a whole and will never become obsolete and outdated.

Aside from that, I am on the same page as OregonEdge. I make something that someone will use and value, and to some extent that becomes a part of my value as a person. If you call into question something I've made, you call into question the care, skill, and effort I've put into it. People buy a custom knife for the same reason that they buy a "custom anything". For some it's nostalgia (a customer told me this week that a small clip-point skinner I made was "just like my grandpa's beaver skinner"), for others it's market value (collectability), but for most it's the ability to get something unique and "made for me" (and it's cool to be able to say you had a pint or two with the guy who made your knife).

Have a good one,
Nathan

 

[J A Martin]

It surprises me that no one has just thrown down the glove and said fine troll bring your stuff and lets cut. Surely there is some forum member here that lives close enough to this clown that makes or owns a custom to just take the challenge to his front door. Talk is cheap. How about that cutting contest?

 

[kgriggs8]

"It surprises me that no one has just thrown down the glove and said fine troll bring your stuff and lets cut. Surely there is some forum member here that lives close enough to this clown that makes or owns a custom to just take the challenge to his front door. Talk is cheap. How about that cutting contest?"

First of all, I am no troll. I have almost 1200 posts and I have been here forever. Just because I say something you may not agree with doesn't mean I am a troll. I know you have built a huge reputaion with your 43 posts "J A Martin" so that gives you the right to call me out.

You are nothing, you are not even a gold member so take your cheap talk and shove it.

As for a cutting contest, no problem. I am not going to compare the very best custom made knife against a crappy made in China import though. Sorry losers but that is not what I said and not what I meant and you know it. I am talking about taking a good quality production knife like a Benchmade or Spyderco in a good steel like S30-v and comparing it to your run of the mill custom knife that sells for $300-400. That is what I said all along.

I have no doubt that the Benchmade or Spyderco will keep pace with and most likely out preform the custom. For one thing, in that price range, you are probably going to get a lesser steel like ATS-34 or 440C. You might get VG-10 but you might not.

There are a few custom makers out there that make a great knife for the money but on average, the custom won't hold up very well. It is hard for some of you to grasp this point because it is rather subtle and you are used to fumbling with your thoughts. So take a moment and read what I wrote before you spout off and make yourself look like more of a jack ass.

I am not saying there is no reason for custom knives. I am just saying dollar for dollar (or even dollar for several dollars), the production knife will probably out preform the custom. There will be exceptions to this of course but my point stands. Take a Manix or a Military and compare it to a similar custom from your average maker and I have no doubt that the Spyderco will out cut it. It is science, better steels like S30-v will keep their edge longer than ATS-34.

 

[canineforge]

"It surprises me that no one has just thrown down the glove and said fine troll bring your stuff and lets cut. Surely there is some forum member here that lives close enough to this clown that makes or owns a custom to just take the challenge to his front door. Talk is cheap. How about that cutting contest?"

First of all, I am no troll. I have almost 1200 posts and I have been here forever. Just because I say something you may not agree with doesn't mean I am a troll. I know you have built a huge reputaion with your 43 posts "J A Martin" so that gives you the right to call me out.

You are nothing, you are not even a gold member so take your cheap talk and shove it.

As for a cutting contest, no problem. I am not going to compare the very best custom made knife against a crappy made in China import though. Sorry losers but that is not what I said and not what I meant and you know it. I am talking about taking a good quality production knife like a Benchmade or Spyderco in a good steel like S30-v and comparing it to your run of the mill custom knife that sells for $300-400. That is what I said all along.

I have no doubt that the Benchmade or Spyderco will keep pace with and most likely out preform the custom. For one thing, in that price range, you are probably going to get a lesser steel like ATS-34 or 440C. You might get VG-10 but you might not.

There are a few custom makers out there that make a great knife for the money but on average, the custom won't hold up very well. It is hard for some of you to grasp this point because it is rather subtle and you are used to fumbling with your thoughts. So take a moment and read what I wrote before you spout off and make yourself look like more of a jack ass.

I am not saying there is no reason for custom knives. I am just saying dollar for dollar (or even dollar for several dollars), the production knife will probably out preform the custom. There will be exceptions to this of course but my point stands. Take a Manix or a Military and compare it to a similar custom from your average maker and I have no doubt that the Spyderco will out cut it. It is science, better steels like S30-v will keep their edge longer than ATS-34.

"It is a CAPITAL mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one (USUALLY A TROLL) begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

- Sherlock Holmes

 

[Keith Montgomery]

So take a moment and read what I wrote before you spout off and make yourself look like more of a jack ass..

Actually, it's you that is making yourself look like a jackass, just by posting this kind of crap, and also by doing nothing more than spouting opinions and stating that they are facts. You have yet to prove one thing that you have posted. All you do is make unsubstantiated statements that mean absolutely nothing. If you can back up your statements with proof then do so.

It is hard for some of you to grasp this point because it is rather subtle and you are used to fumbling with your thoughts.

Statements like that are the statements of a troll. You are insulting the members that take part on this forum, and I don't care if you have been around here forever and have 1200 posts, my opinion is that you don't know what you're talking about and are full of crap.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Keith,

Are you still talking to this idiot who is full of Bull S**T (I believe I wrote that on the first page of this thread.

Still waiting for his initial test of his factory Lum and Custom Lum. Of course he doesn't own a custom Lum or any other custom knife for that matter.

I have called him out on his Bull S**T and he has not responded.

While he may not be a troll on the factory side of the forums (where no doubt 99% of his posts came from) but here he is a Troll. Who knows nothing, can prove nothing and as I have said on several occasions is full of S**T.

K8 where is your proof about the Lums. Oh thats right the only tests you conduct are in your imagination.

WWG

 

[Keith Montgomery]

By the way kgriggs8, you should edit your signature and correct the spelling of theories in your first usage of the word.

 

[kgriggs8]

Interesting. I didn't know that posting an idea was going to cause so much hard feelings. Some of you seem to take it personally that I think factory knives can be better than custom. I guess I hit a nerve or you wouldn't be so hot under the collar.

I didn't start this thread to be a "troll". I have not been a troll in over five years and I am not going to start being one now. That is stupid. I was just stating my opinion in the forum where I thought it best fit. I thought maybe we could get an intellegent conversation going but I was wrong. You are too emotional to be objective. I guess I should have posted this in the general forum where people are more open minded and don't have such a personal stake in the topic. It must be hard to accept the fact that your $600 custom knife is actually not as good at cutting as a $100 Spyderco. There must be a level of shame there that I tapped into without meaning to.

I am sorry for making so many of you feel bad about yourselves. It was not my intention. I was just starting a topic of conversation. I had not idea that you were so emotionally invloved with the issue.

Try not to take yourselves so seriously in the future, it makes you seem sad and pathetic. This was my first foray into the custom forums and I don't like the tone here so I will move on. It is a big website not all the forums in it are going to be winners.

 

[Jose Reyes]

Interesting. I didn't know that posting an idea was going to cause so much hard feelings. Some of you seem to take it personally that I think factory knives can be better than custom. I guess I hit a nerve or you wouldn't be so hot under the collar.

I didn't start this thread to be a "troll". I have not been a troll in over five years and I am not going to start being one now. That is stupid. I was just stating my opinion in the forum where I thought it best fit. I thought maybe we could get an intellegent conversation going but I was wrong. You are too emotional to be objective. I guess I should have posted this in the general forum where people are more open minded and don't have such a personal stake in the topic. It must be hard to accept the fact that your $600 custom knife is actually not as good at cutting as a $100 Spyderco. There must be a level of shame there that I tapped into without meaning to.

I am sorry for making so many of you feel bad about yourselves. It was not my intention. I was just starting a topic of conversation. I had not idea that you were so emotionally invloved with the issue.

Try not to take yourselves so seriously in the future, it makes you seem sad and pathetic. This was my first foray into the custom forums and I don't like the tone here so I will move on. It is a big website not all the forums in it are going to be winners.

The problem is that you seem to have pulled this conclusion out of your ear without providing any evidence, and have stooped to calling people names... :jerkit:

 

[PhilL]

It must be hard to accept the fact that your $600 custom knife is actually not as good at cutting as a $100 Spyderco..

Not a Troll huh?
Where are you getting these facts from?

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Try not to take yourselves so seriously in the future, it makes you seem sad and pathetic. This was my first foray into the custom forums and I don't like the tone here so I will move on. It is a big website not all the forums in it are going to be winners.

It's actually you that is the loser, not this forum. You come to the custom forum and belittle custom knives, insult custom amkers by stating that they can't make $300.00 to $400.00 knives that are as good as $100.00 Spydercos and benchmades, and then you insult the people that take part in this forum. At one point you say that you aren't a troll, but those are the actions of a troll, and a jackass.

You're not taking part in this forum won't be missed at all, so don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

 

[Kohai999]

Interesting. I didn't know that posting an idea was going to cause so much hard feelings. Some of you seem to take it personally that I think factory knives can be better than custom.

I thought maybe we could get an intellegent conversation going but I was wrong. You are too emotional to be objective. I guess I should have posted this in the general forum where people are more open minded and don't have such a personal stake in the topic. It must be hard to accept the fact that your $600 custom knife is actually not as good at cutting as a $100 Spyderco.


I had not idea that you were so emotionally invloved with the issue.

Try not to take yourselves so seriously in the future, it makes you seem sad and pathetic. This was my first foray into the custom forums and I don't like the tone here so I will move on. It is a big website not all the forums in it are going to be winners.

Don't try to make us out as something we are not.

You ARE pissing me off, because you DON'T get a lot of what goes into it.

You don't seem to understand the basics of metallurgy, craftsmanship, or individual attention to detail.

You don't seem to understand that we WOULD be passionate and quick to defensiveness on a subject that many of us hold near and dear to our hearts. It is serious. If you had enough money in your collection to buy a house, that is called commitment, of a serious nature. Not something one does lightly.

It is not that the Custom Forum is wrong for you, it is that you are wrong for the Custom Forum. Your contibutions have been close to nonexistant, and you will not be missed. Ahhhhh....... but I will see you in the Cove, my friend.

STeven Garsson

 

[BRTATCK]

I have been resisting replying to this as it is a matter of opinions. Most of yours Kgriggs8 I do not agree with. But I must say that J. A. Martin knows what he is talking about and I am very sure that a $600.00 custom from a respected maker will out cut your spyderco. By the way J.A. Martin is a respected maker and a mastersmith, so I think you might want to do some research before you tell someone to shove it, as you so kindly put it. Personally I have carried a spyderco delica and it would not hold an edge. Had to be sharpened every two weeks, and no I did not abuse it. Where as one of my knives, sorry only a cheap $300.00 custom and it has been sharpened approximately twice a year over the four years I have carried it. Maybe this says something about cutting comparisons. I think so but that is my opinion.

Brion Tomberlin
ABS journeyman smith
Anvil Top Custom Knives

 

[commodorewheeler]

For one thing, in that price range, you are probably going to get a lesser steel like ATS-34 or 440C. You might get VG-10 but you might not.

Most custom folders in the $400 range are actually made with S30V steel or, at the very least, CPM-154 nowadays. ATS-34 is still used, but nowhere near as much as before, and very few custom makers use 440C at all anymore. Almost no custom knifemakers use VG-10, as it is generally only sold in Japan.

Take a Manix or a Military and compare it to a similar custom from your average maker and I have no doubt that the Spyderco will out cut it. It is science, better steels like S30-v will keep their edge longer than ATS-34.

This is not necessarily true, and here's the reason why. Most production knife companies leave the steel in their knives at a lower RC after heat treat than the majority of custom knifemakers do, so customers can resharpen the knife more easily. And keep in mind that most custom knifemakers use S30V nowadays anyway. S30V at a higher RC will hold its edge better than S30V at a lower RC.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

commodorewheeler, there is not much hope of getting through to kgriggs8, even with such sound reasoning. He obviously thinks that good production knives are better than custom knives costing much more, so that is what he should own. Maybe someday something will happen that will change his mind, maybe not, but I doubt anything you post will have any affect on his thinking.

 

[flava]

This was my first foray into the custom forums and I don't like the tone here so I will move on.

Boo hooo hooo. Don't let the door kick you in the arse, troll. :thumbup:
I hope you really mean to stay away (most trolls can't) and you'll stop posting cr@p here. :jerkit:

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Interesting. I didn't know that posting an idea was going to cause so much hard feelings. Some of you seem to take it personally that I think factory knives can be better than custom. I guess I hit a nerve or you wouldn't be so hot under the collar.

The problem is that you aren't presenting your thoughts as being opinion. You are presenting them as being fact. There are some very good production knives in the $100.00 to $200.00 range, but not one of the ones I have owned or handled is better than any of the custom folders I have owned or handled. They do not cut better, hold an edge better, are not built better, are not made of better materials, do not have higher quality pivots or locks. Not one thing about the production knives is better than the customs, not one. Custom knives will have their flaws, but on average there will be far fewer than on production knives.

Production knives have their advantages, but better quality isn't one of them. Price (you can get a good quaity production folder for $100.00) and availability are the two major advantages. It is also easier to get a production knife replaced if you are having problems with it. I'm not saying that a custom maker would be any less likely to replace a problematic knife, just that it would take a heck of a lot longer for this to be accomplished.

There are some high quality production knives than can compete with customs, but you won't find them for $100.00.