I am starting to think custom knives are outdated.

OK guys, I hear a lot about production knives being compared to custom's. To some degree they are comparable, and only to some degree. For one, NO production knife will ever have a total inspection from the start of the manufacturing process to the end, whereas a custom is controlled from the very beginning. At any phase of this process, a good custom smith will correct or dispatch a knife of suspect quality. From a production standpoint, letting a few escape if not quite right is just another day at the shop. Believe me, I am a quality manager by trade, and I have to fight this mentality every day, and in every industry I have worked in.
Now for the real world test: 20 years ago I marched along with the very best this nation has to offer, as a member of the 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), we conducted real world missions using real tools. Almost every one of our unit had "production" knives that we considered good, until we went into real combat. Out of 12 persons on my A-team, 11 of our knives failed under extreme circumstances. The ONLY primary knife that took this beating and survived was a custom knife that our team captain purchased. This was the last time any of us carried our primary knife as a production blade. That's real world usage, with real world failures. As much as I liked my EK bowie knives, which I had two, I no longer carried my remaining one into the field. It was used for home use only. Either our knives bent prematurely, snapped the tips, or broke where the handle meets the blade. Granted, the knife industry has come a long way, but when my life is on the line, I would ONLY carry a custom of a known quality smithy. Just my opinion, but take it for what it's worth.
 
Hi Serengeti,

As a Infantry Rifle Platoon Leader and a TOW Platoon Leader with the 101st Airborne (Air Assault) I too saw factory knives fail time after time. This included Cold Steel, Buck, Schrade, Gerber, Uncle Henry, Case and Randall (Sorry guys its a factory knife).

I carried and USED knives from a couple of guys that most people here know about...Robert Parrish and Walter Brend. Among numerous others such as Rob Simonich (1985 before most of you knew who he was), Jerry Busse (yes he used to make custom knives, again before most of you had ever heard of him) oh and that other "newbie" Kit Carson.

This testing was not done by a Mall Ninja or a Military Wannabe, but by a grunt.

Boys and girls you break a piece of equipment far from home it can turn into a bad situation.

WWG
 
So where does a custom production fit? For example a customized Buck 110 is that like being in the twilight zone?
 
TheKnifeCollector said:
There is so much MORE to it than just being a knife; like RWS said, their IS the pride in ownership, the uniqueness of the knife, and the realtionship that you develop with the maker. All these things make a Custom knife well worth their price.
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I couldn't agree more. I take great pride in having personally met the person who made my knives. The individuals pumping out production knives aren't giving me a second thought. I would much rather support a craftsman who takes pride in each piece he makes.
Bob
 
Azis said:
So where does a custom production fit? For example a customized Buck 110 is that like being in the twilight zone?
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Those seem to be production knives given personal attention to fit and finish. I don't think the parts are produced any differently.
 
I'd drive a Ferrari or a Hyundai to work as they'd both get me there. Same goes for my knives. Somedays I feel like carrying my Queen, sometimes it a vintage knife, and other days it's a custom.

As much as I love all my knives I love my customs especially. To each their own I guess.
 
I have yet to handle a production knife that matches the quality of an RJ Martin Devastator or Carson M4, period. Along with the fact that these knives are of the highest caliber, they also offer me the opportunity to own something that there isn't 5,000, 10,000, 100,000, or possibly more that are exactly the same.

If all I considered a knife to be was a tool, then I would never spend more than the price of a high quality production knife. The fact is though that I consider knives to be much more than tools. If I didn't, I wouldn't even consider paying the price I have paid, and will pay in the future for a knife.
 
Although production knives have progressed to the point where the best made production knives can perform on the same level as a well-made custom, they still do not come anywhere near customs in terms of artistry, fit and finish, and ergonomics. These qualities, along with the fact that a custom is handmade, are why people buy customs instead of production knives.

A. Brett Schaller said:
Original oil paintings are outdated. You can buy a print that looks just as good hanging on your wall for a fraction of the price.
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This cleverly sarcastic analogy perfectly illustrates why customs will never be outdated. When you buy a custom, you are buying original art. When you buy a production piece, from an artistic standpoint, you are buying at best a replica of that original art.
 
You know, I never said that production knives had no worth, but I still stand on this premise, that when the chips are down and my life is on the line, I would choose a custom over a production blade without hesitation. Some of the production knives I use that are adequate would be the Entrek Javelina and EK Bowie, whereas, my pride and Joys are a Lin Rhea bowie and a Hunter made by Rick Lowe. All are great knives, but I absolutely have more confidence in the customs. Not to mention that I have conducted a side by side comparison of toughness, and the customs came out far ahead.
 
Starkman1 said:
I take great pride in having personally met the person who made my knives. The individuals pumping out production knives aren't giving me a second thought. I would much rather support a craftsman who takes pride in each piece he makes.
Bob
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As a sidebar, I am not in agreement here. Just in regards to the individuals pumping out productions. Overgeneralized. To be producing work of ANY quality deserves--no, requires--that we place integrity upon ourselves and the jobs we do. The fact that production knives have also elevated the standard of workmanship cannot be solely attributed to the machinery and production methods alone.

I am glad for the lone, unheralded individuals in a production house doing consistent quality work WITHOUT ever getting a chance to meet the end user directly. They also deserve a pat on the back.

That said, I see no end to the custom industry from the collection and user standpoint for the points already raised. Other (sheeple?) factors may play a long-term demising role.

Coop
 
Well this post motivates me (as a custom newbie) to want to buy customs even more. Especially after reading about the real, hard-use military experience of the guys posting earlier - (thank you for your service to our country). - - - And in this time when more of what we buy is massed produced and farmed out to China to fulfill the penny pinching of the accountants, - I like the idea of buying this very personal item from a guy who actually gives a rip about craftsmanship and performance.
 
I have bought a lot factory knives (anyone mentions M2 and it gets my attention) and I have quite a few customs. My current EDC is a DMK Spektor that is a great knife. I love my Todd Davidson Slippies, My XM-18 is with me when ever I go camping. I have not even mentioned the fixed blades. They all have personality and are individual expressions of style. Yes my Benchmade M2 blades are great, but they are the same as a large number of others. I also have had better luck with the utility on several of my customs than production knives as far as edge holding and cutting efficiency. To each thier own though, if you don't want a custom get a production, chances are it will also be better than what 90 percent of america is carrying. Steven
 
Custom knives outdated? Hell, so am I.

The idea that I have something unique as a working tool in your pocket--
something that nobody else has is one that appeals to me.


sunfishman said:
Show me a factory slip joint that is half the knife of a Tony Bose. Not one out there that even comes close.

I could say the same about a number of custom bowies also. But I guess you're just speaking of tacticals and hunters.
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And like most of the folks posting on this thread, I own, and use, rather a large crop of high end productions as well.

None of them have the fit and finish, the smooth action, (not to mention the beautiful damascus) of my first high end custom user--by Ed Schempp.

I could surely say the same about the beautiful dagger made by the gentleman quoted above. Although it is one of his well-known models, it was made to my specifications. Where the hell else can I get that done?

It's not just the slipjoints, although they are probably the best example.

But hell, if you don't get it, then you don't get it.
 
shaldag said:
Custom knives outdated? Hell, so am I.

The idea that I have something unique as a working tool in your pocket--
something that nobody else has is one that appeals to me.

And like most of the folks posting on this thread, I own, and use, rather a large crop of high end productions as well.
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I think this gentleman is speaking for me, as well!

Honestly, I don't believe hand-made quality will ever really go out of style or be 'outdated.' I believe I understand and appreciate the original point -- it takes nothing away from my admiration of and appreciation for a fine, hand-made blade. It lessens none of my respect for the man or woman who spent a life-time developing the necessary skills.

Just my point of view. :)
 
don't try and tell me that my $100 Seki-Cut Bob Lum Encounter will not preform as well as a $500 custom of the same design. It will and I know it.
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As I see it.You kind of refute your own thread right there.Without Bob Lum making his Encounter in the first place,and it gaining popularity as a fine custom,it would never have been made as a production piece to begin with.So,No customs are not outdated at all.I would think that you would appreciate the custom market even more,because of that market,you were able to obtain a fine knife, designed after a custom, that serves you well.....at an affordable to you price.
 
In this plastic fantastic world of ours, there is no substitute for hand-made quality.
 
Custom, Production...Custom, Production....what more needs be said? When the standard stuff out of the catalog isn't quite what you are looking for then you will appreaciate the guy who can deliver exactly what you want. Customs knives means having it your way. It is not about fit and finish; many better known custom knive makers are well ahead of the factories on these details (their stuff photographs well); but, many custom knife makers can do quite well even if their finish isn't quite up to par. Eventually, you will fall in love with some knife, and it will be nearly perfect; but, oh, if it were only in a different steel, or had a better fitting handle, or were an inch longer/shorter; that's when you will turn to a custom knife maker.

n2s
 
Kriggs, There are 38 new points of view in this thread besides yours. Are you going to 'hit and run' like a troll, or come back with dialog?

We deserve better.

Coop
 
"Considering the premise of this thread....I guess we should all be using Bic pens and wearing Timex watches."

Okay, what custom made pens and watches do you currently own? I bet none. You probably are talking about Rolex and Mont Blanc type of stuff. That just goes to prove my point as they are production.

Don't get high quality confused with custom. Here is what I mean, a nice Rolex is a production watch right? I bet a good Rolex is better than most custom made watches you can find. I'm sure that there is a custom watch maker out there that can make a more accuract and more reliable watch than a top of the line Rolex but it will be the exception rather than the rule.

I'm sorry guys but humans are flawed. They can only do so much with there hands. A machine can do more precise work and keep things to closer tolerances than most humans. I am talking about in general and within some sort of price frame. It is just stupid to compare a $100 production knife to $4000 custom. But I will stand behind my statement that if I can pick a $300-400 production knife and you can pick a $300-400 custom knife. My production will most likely out preform the custom.
 
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