I broke my Skeleton Key

GarySoneji said:
Well, I didn't break it on purpose. I wanted to satisfy my curiousity. I read these forums every day. Everytime someone gets a new knife they are encouraged to abuse it. The people on this forum make INFI out to be indestructable. I know not to shoot it or baton it with metal. I've seen car doors and car hood stabbed with knives, quarters pounded in to, street signs and cinder blocks chopped. Excuse me for wanting to experience INFI for myself.
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Dude i have never had the guts to go out and test my busse to the limit. I for one think that what you did was pretty kewl in light of the barrage of crap being flung your direction. Maybe you were a little hard on the thing but at least you went out and used it like it was meant to be used. :thumbup:

This is a fairly inexpensive knife and as long as you dont make a habit of breaking them and abusing the warranty i dont see a problem with you getting a replacement. Sometimes the hogs are a little rough on the new guys so im gonna appologize on their behalf.

Please dont let this turn you off from busses they are kick ass knives.:thumbup:
 
He was just curious and testing the limits of the knife like everybody else does. He went to far, and it broke. Nobody is bashed for doing crazy things to Busses, but the minute it goes a little too far and something bad happens, everybody wants to jump on your case. This is ridiculous.
 
Here's a shot showing the SK from the top for those out there that don't own one.. ;)
SK_top.jpg
 
IMHO, even though he was pushing the upper limits of the warrenty, I think Jerry will still replace it. The way I read the warrenty, it is there to protect Jerry from replacing blades that are shot or blown up just so the user can get a new knife. Since he had no intention of destroying this blade, he just pushed it past its reasonable limits, I think Jerry will replace it. I am curious to see how it plays out.
 
I'm kinda surprized it snapped.

It seems like I'm always reading about knives put in vices and bent so many degrees and returning to true, or jammed into some wood and hanging off the knife, or pounding the point into and snapping it out of the wood.

Also, I don't know if this is directly related, but it seems after some hard use test, if some Busse knife has any edge damage, its just rolled or dented not chipped or fractured.

Why didn't the SK just bend at the tip?

I just got my first Busse this week, so I'm curious.

And I'm glad the guy posted the results of his testing. It helps to put all the other testing in perspective, it helps to know there are -some- limits to what you can do with a knife (no pounding into concrete and kicking the knife, and no shooting with high powered rifles:D ).
Patrick
 
The video shows BIG blades eating concrete not small ones. This is an example of INTENTIONALLY pushing a blade as far as you can to see when it breaks. He need's some special candy IMHO. If Jerry covers this, it's his company, but I throw the BS flag on this one.

Bob Mills
 
Its not suprising to me that it snapped. Everything has a breaking point. The thinner the blade the easier it breaks. Here is a link to a thread that has some article scans. You can read about how Ron Hood broke a BM in a vice. Bottom line is that Busse knives are tools that when used for normal tasks and even most abnormal tasks they will not fail you. However you need the right tool for the job. An SK is not a pry bar however I would not hesitate to use my HR to pry with. Thicker blade/more blade face = more steel to distributed the load.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419443&page=3&highlight=ron+hood
 
RANT ON: i have used my blades hard also, cutting quarters in half, cutting concrete, hammering them though nails, etc...and i agree with you wanting to do so also. Why? to know what to expect if and when you really need it to do those tasks. if Jerry had not tested his knives like he did, would he have used his Natural Outlaw to pry open that car door and save that person?(well yeah HE still would have, because HE knows how tough they are! It seems some here think you are getting down on busse's or something, but you just stated your knife broke. you didn't even mention warranty or replacement in your posts until other people did. noboby chimed in and said it was irresponsible when the other abuse posts were made. Why? because the knives didn't break, and when yours did they didn't like it.
i'll tell you what, if you want, send me your knife and the little tip, and i'll send you a freshly stripped key. RANT OFF
 
You know there's a reason in all those product adds on the bottom that go something to the effect of "professional driver on a closed course, don't ever try this at home". That's there to keep you from being injured or killed, and to keep them from being sued afterward. I learned very early from my father that a tool is only as safe as it's user. He also would have beat my a$$ had I pulled this stunt. But that was a long time ago. And I still like my chisel and beer idea.
 
Yager said:
It seems some here think you are getting down on busse's or something, but you just stated your knife broke. you didn't even mention warranty or replacement in your posts until other people did. noboby chimed in and said it was irresponsible when the other abuse posts were made. Why? because the knives didn't break, and when yours did they didn't like it.
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This is what I see as well.
 
I, too, am surprised by the failure mode. That looks like an almost classic brittle fracture.
 
Yager said:
you didn't even mention warranty or replacement in your posts until other people did. noboby chimed in and said it was irresponsible when the other abuse posts were made.
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I think the title of this dudes post is what set the tone for this entire thread. "My Skeleton Key Broke" has a accusitory, complaining sound to it.

I heard it isn't what is said, it's how its said that usually causes disagreements.:D

rjd



I agree with the original post, the SK probably should have been deeper before he kicked it.
 
GarySoneji said:
. . . I probably should have pounded it in a little farther before kicking it :(
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GarySoneji,

No harm. . . .No foul. . . :thumbup: :D

Eventhough Skeleton Keys are by far the flyweights of the Busse Combat line, pounding it in further probably would have saved the day here because there would have been less leverage and thicker geometry further up on the blade. . . .

Here's a little background on the Skeleton Key:

The Skeleton Keys are full-height hollow ground by hand. Thin edged, full-height, deep-dish hollow grinds are by far the weakest of all bevel geometries. That is the same type of geometry as old fashioned straight razors, although they were ground MUCH thinner than were the Skeleton Keys.

We had originally ground all of the Skeleton Keys with a full-height flat grinds in order to give them better strength. The problem was that the full-height flat grind greatly sacrificed the knife's ability to cut since the blade was so very narrow. I argued with our production team that the Skeleton Key was "far too small for anyone to heavily abuse". . .(What was I thinking???? ). . . and that we should use a full-height hollow grind in order to make this little knife a better cutter. Of course with the full-height hollow grind, the strength of the blade was greatly decreased because steel, much like glass, is only as strong as your thinnest geometry. Once steel cracks, just like glass, the crack will propagate until it reaches the other end and the blade completely breaks in half or has a half moon shaped chunk missing from the edge.

Now to look at your pics I can only be impressed with how well INFI performed. There is no other steel that could've been ground to this size, geometry, and hardness that could have taken what finally broke your blade!!!:eek: It is obvious that what finally broke your blade was a full lateral bend that was much greater than 90 degrees and which apparently happened when you "kicked it". That is very impressive performance from the little Skeleton Key.

I wish I had the ability to circle areas of a photo and put little arrows at certain points in order to illustrate what I'm getting at, but I can't so you'll all need to follow my description of where to look in the following picture. Look at the upper right corner of the broken tip piece. See the small piece of the spine that is not broken off clean but is STILL BENT at 90 degrees? YOWZA!!! :eek: In order to take a permanent 90 degree set, that blade had to have been bent WAY beyond 90 degrees!!! So, this little fly-weight of the Busse Combat line outperformed any claims we've ever made in regards to lateral strength. We've only claimed to have gone 70 degrees without breaking, and that was with a much more robust geometry and much longer blade! The fact that this little guy hung in there past the 90 degree mark with a full-height hollow grind only makes me that much more impressed with how much abuse INFI can handle!!! (Perhaps someone can put some arrows on the pic for me?)

PICT2228.jpg



So, it is unfortunate that your Skeleton Key broke but it is not any sign of a defect or of any lesser performance than could have or should have been expected. It is actually a sign that it surpassed any claims that we have made concerning lateral strength!!! It may also be a sign that you have future in the NFL as a place kicker!!! :thumbup:

I'm very proud of how much this little sliver of INFI took before finally gasping for its last breath!!!

I certainly don't see any intention in GarySoneji's actions to have killed his little Skeleton Key so please return both pieces to the Busse Combat Shop and we will replace it with a brand spankin' new one. . .

As for the broken little SK. . . Rest In Peace my little nuclear friend. . . Soon you will be home and we will re-profile you and put you to work in our shipping room for the next 60 years!!!:thumbup:

Nuke on my INFI kicking friends!!! :cool:

Jerry :D



.
 
rbmcmjr said:
I, too, am surprised by the failure mode. That looks like an almost classic brittle fracture.
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Check out the upper right corner of the tip piece in the pic I posted above. . . Ain't nuthin' brittle about that fracture. . . That steel bent halfway to the moon before it finally let go . . . :eek: . . . . :thumbup:

Very Cool!!!:cool:

Jerry :D


.
 
Jerry Busse said:


GarySoneji,

No harm. . . .No foul. . . :thumbup: :D

Eventhough Skeleton Keys are by far the flyweights of the Busse Combat line, pounding it in further probably would have saved the day here because there would have been less leverage and thicker geometry further up on the blade. . . .

Here's a little background on the Skeleton Key:

The Skeleton Keys are full-height hollow ground by hand. Thin edged, full-height, deep-dish hollow grinds are by far the weakest of all bevel geometries. That is the same type of geometry as old fashioned straight razors, although they were ground MUCH thinner than were the Skeleton Keys.

We had originally ground all of the Skeleton Keys with a full-height flat grinds in order to give them better strength. The problem was that the full-height flat grind greatly sacrificed the knife's ability to cut since the blade was so very narrow. I argued with our production team that the Skeleton Key was "far too small for anyone to heavily abuse". . .(What was I thinking???? ). . . and that we should use a full-height hollow grind in order to make this little knife a better cutter. Of course with the full-height hollow grind, the strength of the blade was greatly decreased because steel, much like glass, is only as strong as your thinnest geometry. Once steel cracks, just like glass, the crack will propagate until it reaches the other end and the blade completely breaks in half or has a half moon shaped chunk missing from the edge.

Now to look at your pics I can only be impressed with how well INFI performed. There is no other steel that could've been ground to this size, geometry, and hardness that could have taken what finally broke your blade!!!:eek: It is obvious that what finally broke your blade was a full lateral bend that was much greater than 90 degrees and which apparently happened when you "kicked it". That is very impressive performance from the little Skeleton Key.

I wish I had the ability to circle areas of a photo and put little arrows at certain points in order to illustrate what I'm getting at, but I can't so you'll all need to follow my description of where to look in the following picture. Look at the upper right corner of the broken tip piece. See the small piece of the spine that is not broken off clean but is STILL BENT at 90 degrees? YOWZA!!! :eek: In order to take a permanent 90 degree set, that blade had to have been bent WAY beyond 90 degrees!!! So, this little fly-weight of the Busse Combat line outperformed any claims we've ever made in regards to lateral strength. We've only claimed to have gone 70 degrees without breaking, and that was with a much more robust geometry and much longer blade! The fact that this little guy hung in there past the 90 degree mark with a full-height hollow grind only makes me that much more impressed with how much abuse INFI can handle!!! (Perhaps someone can put some arrows on the pic for me?)

PICT2228.jpg



So, it is unfortunate that your Skeleton Key broke but it is not any sign of a defect or of any lesser performance than could have or should have been expected. It is actually a sign that it surpassed any claims that we have made concerning lateral strength!!! It may also be a sign that you have future in the NFL as a place kicker!!! :thumbup:

I'm very proud of how much this little sliver of INFI took before finally gasping for its last breath!!!

I certainly don't see any intention in GarySoneji's actions to have killed his little Skeleton Key so please return both pieces to the Busse Combat Shop and we will replace it with a brand spankin' new one. . .

As for the broken little SK. . . Rest In Peace my little nuclear friend. . . Soon you will be home and we will re-profile you and put you to work in our shipping room for the next 60 years!!!:thumbup:

Nuke on my INFI kicking friends!!! :cool:

Jerry :D



.
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Wow! Good man to back up his product!
 
Jerry Busse said:


No harm. . . .No foul. . . :thumbup: :D

I certainly don't see any intention in GarySoneji's actions to have killed his little Skeleton Key so please return both pieces to the Busse Combat Shop and we will replace it with a brand spankin' new one. . .

As for the broken little SK. . . Rest In Peace my little nuclear friend. . . Soon you will be home and we will re-profile you and put you to work in our shipping room for the next 60 years!!!:thumbup:

Nuke on my INFI kicking friends!!! :cool:

Jerry :D



.
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It's all good in the hood:D
 
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