I can't believe this - I'm not only angry, but I'm extremely disappointed.

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Spark,

I'm a dealer, and I hang out here. NEVER have I tried to post a for sale item here(that was inventory. I did sell two personal pieces here awhile ago), BECAUSE I don't pay for any advertising. I will, but right now my marketing budget is pretty slim, and it is basically spent in the local market. I would just like to thank you and Mike for providing these wonderful playing grounds for us all.

Joe Glessner, owner
Sycotic Samurai Cutlery

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"I can go over to your mama's house, and start a small fire in her panties." -G. Busey
 
Based on Internet Marketing practices, the minimum would be $225,000 - free and clear. That's based on the number of unique hits per day x days of the month... at $1 per. Toss in another 75 large and Mike and myself would work on it ...
biggrin.gif


Anyone want to buy it?

Of course, that's idle talk, and we'd probably sell a lot higher than that.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
ENOUGH RHETORIC!!! Especially with the presidential candidates going full steam, I've had enough.

Those FEW dealers who have invested in advertizing here AND are now unhappy with the change in policy have been offered a pro- rated REFUND for the time period remaining.

What's left to talk about? You've expressed your displeasure. This may be far from a one sided issue, but I think everything's been said.

WHY CONTINUE TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE??

This forum is for the vast majority of us who are still quite happy here, including private dealers, custom knife makers, and knife nuts like myself.


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-Gregory Zolas
tinsta@hotmail.com
 
"You can please some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time." Abe Lincoln.

Mike and Spark you did what you had to do to survive. That is the number one priority.

For the dealers that are bitching because "It ain't free no more" sharpen your pencils, reduce your overhead, find a better source (wholesaler) and start running your business like it was meant to be run in an economy that is based on the Free Enterprise System. (free here means unrestricted, not without cost) Also go find the guy that guarenteed you that you would be successful in the knife business and Slap him in the chops.
Rs
Don
 
Anyone who didn't see this coming from day 1 sure wasn't paying attention. 2 years this site has been running and running well I might add. Mike's a businessman and that was obivous also from the start. So what then is the big deal? It's his site and he can do what he wants he sold knives before and now using his site he will sell knives again. The fact is regardless of any ulterior motives on his part unless running a business falls into that catagory he has provided a fantastic and state of the art place for people who love knives. Now 2 years later after footing the bill he wants to sell knives here on his own site and people complain. One thing I haven't seen touched on here(unless I missed it) Is the matter of Spark. I have never heard anyone wonder where his money comes from yet we have come to take for granted that when ever this site goes down Spark will drop everything he is doing to fix the problem.I believe once he said he doesnt get paid much for doing this maybe thats changed and hopefully he is well compensated for all his time and effort he puts into running and maintaining this form. So I ask you should they both just keep doing this using there money so we have a place to hang and talk about knives? Cause if that were to happen this place wouldn't be here much longer and I for one don't want to seee that happen. these have been the ramblings of an old man and just my opinion is all.
Bob
 
spark,

i never understood why more folks did not take advantage of the banner rates, it is a good price for a years' subscription which is why we took you and mike up on your offer to support BFC with our paid banner ad.


more folks should still take advantage of it.

if more did, the whole flashpoint may have been avoided.




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PATRICK YORK MA
TRIPLE AUGHT DESIGN
"Audaces Fortuna Iuvat"
Click to expand...
www.tripleaughtdesign.com
Your edged tool & extreme gear resource for professionals, adventurers and enthusiasts.
velox@slip.net


 
I realize this is the 1st post I have made, but I have the same opinion as many other people on this matter. I joined BFC because like all of you, I like knives and enjoy the conversation, but all of the moaning and groaning takes away from some of the pleasure.

Someone said enough is enough. I totally agree. Besides, have any of you checked out the store. As far as internet dealers go, the prices are not the best around. If you can't compete with their prices, perhaps you should reconsider your decision to sell knives in such a competitive market place.

[This message has been edited by H2O (edited 03-10-2000).]
 
Spark, Mike, I'd like to suggest a minor policy tweak that'll help end the controversy.

If any of the banner ad dealers want to set up a limited run of "BF Special" pieces, with an otherwise-unique pattern, color option or markings, let them advertize such critters on the main forum.

That'll eliminate the last real "inequity" between the paid ad dealers and 1SKS and put everybody on a level field. Any complaints beyond that are ludicrous.

Jim
 
Patrick and Chief are correct.
Fool me once shame on you.
smile.gif

Fool me twice shame on me.
frown.gif


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RICK - Left Handers Unite

[This message has been edited by RGRAY (edited 03-10-2000).]
 
Patrick,

I accept your conclusion of impracticality based on the numbers you provided. It is difficult to determine the true profit without knowing the fixed and variable costs of a firm and the markups provided. I was using my 11 years as an Inventory Analyst for a restaraunt supply company as a basis for my statements.

The idea that Mike or Spark would cause this effect specifically in order to make life difficult for other vendors was not the intent of my other statement. I was attempting to say, and none too clearly, that if it became necessary for this action to take place, the resulting effects would be far less pleasant than the situation is now.

I appreciate the position this entire situation has placed you in. And, although I would like to, I can't say that I would have reacted any differently than you have, under the circumstances. As I said , self preservation is not an evil thing. And that goes for everyone. And I have considered the possibility that there could be other things going on between the different parties that I am unaware of.

I guess the main point of all my comments could be summed up by saying, "I'm sorry that things are like this for everyone involved. It appears that all the people are just doing what they believe to be necessary, and communication appears to have been less than adequate. But it could easily have been worse for everyone."



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Dave
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If at first you don't succeed, go buy a knife.
 
The members have spoken and this is a member driven site, so I am moving this to TGTB&TU.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
 
Spark,
I would really like to let this go but when your favorite saying is “you’re wrong” or “you don’t know what you are talking about” and in reality it is you who have falsehoods in each of your points back to me, I can’t help but tell the truth to all who will take time to read. Take three deep breaths and read slowly.
Point one: Concerning the $2 over cost issue. You are (or were, can’t connect to 1stop right now to verify this) advertising DA SOCOMs for $324.99, even the discontinued clip points. Only one distributor on earth has any left and his price today is $315 plus $7 shipping which totals $322. Guess you are right! You aren’t making $2 profit, you are making $2.99! I know you bought a few before the price increase but how about the dealers who just started business recently (wow, I have been doing this 11 whole days now) or have sold out of stock? Your price on DA SOCOMs doesn’t reflect current market conditions. I recommend everybody order some black serrated DA SOCOMs from you and lets see you deliver. How about throwing in shipping since you are so customer orientated? You had DA SOCOM black plain edge clip points (out of production for almost 2 years and unavailable at every distributor long ago) advertised at that price until I pointed it out to Mike. If I hadn’t looked at 1stop, how else would I have known this? Do you think I am psychic?
Point two: Proved me wrong on multiple issues? HAHAHAHHA!!! NAME ONE! SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE TYPED IN MINI SOCOM ANYWHERE!!! I called Mike on the table about the DA CLIP POINTS and he admitted he was wrong and fixed it. Don’t you know the difference between a mini SOCOM and a full size one?
Point three: I have been a Microtech dealer for 11 whole days, proof of this can be found in my first post in the Dealers for Sale forum. Even before I became a dealer, Microtech adjusted their prices to reflect a much lower profit margin. There isn’t $100 profit in any Microtech knife anymore...not a single one…name one!!! If you actually had access to up to date dealer information, you would know this. Taking into account current MSRP, using the slight discount of $5 or so for that sales “hook” and paying shipping two directions, actual profit is more like $20-30. Even if there were zero shipping charges and sold for full MSRP, the profit margin is as little as $27.50 on one new model. According to you if I can sell one knife it will pay for my banner for two months. Banners for dealers are $50 per month. So tell me, which model of Microtech are you making $100 on???
On those points I will quote you “you don’t know what you are talking about”.
I can afford to advertise and will do so, I even inquired about a banner on BF and planned to do it before your true colors emerged. I have many of the same expenses you do but on a smaller scale. Hardware, software, internet access, inventory, phone bills, etc. Photoshop costs the same for me as it does for you. The profit I have made in the last 11 days won’t even pay for my digital camera.
When discussing the price you put on BF, your posts make it sound like you half own BF, I thought you were a $1,500 per month employee. At least that is what we were told when it was time to raise money to buy your birthday gift, the Commander. Do you really own half of BF?
Still have to ask why makers get a free ride when you are hurting for money so bad. Don’t want to run them off too eh?
I will only respond to any further misconceptions you have off line as public displays of anger and name calling aren’t doing anybody any good.
 
Sorry Chief, but that's not how the game is played. You don't get to insult me then pretend like that's the last word.

You want to question my integrity, I'll be happy to answer any question you have. We currently have 5 DA SOCOMs (Tanto) in stock right now. Even if we were out, you know what we'd do? Email the customer, tell them we were out, tell them when they were expected in (we have all sorts of orders coming in everyday now), and tell them what we do have in stock for immediate shipping.

With all of your rhetoric and ranting, all you've done is (to borrow your phrase), "exposed your true colors" here: you are unhappy that the free ride is over and you don't get to guzzle at the trough.

So Photoshop is expensive. Wahhh, you didn't have to buy the most expensive software on the market. We're suppossed to do without, so that you can advertise because you bought Photoshop? Puhleezzze.

Your wholesale price on the SOCOMs is about $50 more than we paid - I'd suggest you find another distributor. So yeah, you don't know what you are talking about. Hey, that's one issue where you are wrong!

Second, you made all sorts of claims about false advertising. Do you have *every* model you advertise in stock at all times? If no, then according to your logic, you are guilty of false advertising. Guess you don't know what you are talking about again. Wow, 2 issues in a row!

Third, Just because you've been a dealer for 11 days doesn't give you the right to come in here (or anywhere else) and badmouth me, or anyone else. All you do is make yourself look like a scumbag.

If you want to get personal, here's a personal message: Grow up, John. Act like an adult, or at least show some military bearing, you made enough of a deal about transitioning right now. All you are doing right now is puffing out your chest, and hurling insults, and that's not productive in the least. I don't appreciate it in the least, and I'm sure others don't as well.

If all we were interested in doing was running off the dealers, we'd be pulling down the banners right now - and closing the dealers forum to everyone. We wouldn't bother entertaining these arguments, we'd just delete them. We'd be advertising in every forum, and running just our banners. In other words, you don't know what you are talking about, again.

If you are finding it hard to compete, get used to it - no one promised you a free ride. It's up to you to either seize the opportunities that you do have, or buckle under, but lashing out at us for your problems isn't the way to solve them. You can either work with us, or against us, but all the time you spend arguing about how you can't make it just further emphasizes that you need to change what you are doing.

Like I said before - the free ride is over. If you want to sell here, you have to pay, just like everyone else. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
 
Uh...folks...excuse me for a minute while I check...but I think I just heard something hit the fan.

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Dave
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If at first you don't succeed, go buy a knife.
 
The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. Yep I do believe it has definately gotten around to UGLY.
 
Wow....... This thread was so long that I had to break out the cold Heinekens, chips and dip.
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif


Broke into the blade stash........flipped open a few manuals.......hit the button on all of my auto's!! Even unsheathed the fixed blades and stabbed some air....
cool.gif


Didn't shave any body hair nor did I draw any blood!
rolleyes.gif


Joined this group of "nuts" several months ago...... Spent alot of dough, got to know allot of very cool individuals and added numerous fine metal products to my collection of blades!!
tongue.gif


It's been a very enjoyable stay!!! I do think that "most" who visit these forums can say the same!

I really don't give a damn if I piss anyone off with my following statement!!

But,...........what's the big "F'in" deal? It takes $$ to make $$...... Put up or shut up!!!



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GigOne
"Livin' Life - Full Throttle"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
 
Your right Columbo,

The fecal matter is about to impact upon the rotary ocillator.

Read on.


Cheif you have just screwed up my friend.

Yes I can sell MT-DA/SOCOM's for $324.95 and make more than $2.99.

If you would have read my earlier post, you would have noticed I told you that I bought a bunch at the old price to offer them to my customers. Many have already sold.

Here is exactly what is left.

I have IN STOCK RIGHT NOW
1 MT-300050 SOCOM DA/TANTO Silver Plain Edge
2 MT-300051 SOCOM DA/TANTO Silver Combo Edge
2 MT-300050 SOCOM DA/TANTO Black Plain Edge

I find it funny how you asked the members to specifically buy a SOCOM DA/TANTO Black Combo edge. Seems somone called earlier today asking what we had in stock and the only one we are out of is the very model you asked everyone to try and order. Hummmm....

Now here you are a dealer, 11 days old, and you say that only one distributor in the world has them. Well if that was the same distributor I just bought a bunch from then guess what, you would of had the same opportunity last week to get them at the old price, but apparently you did not. There are lots of distributors and it just so happens I was an MT distributor for several years, o welcome to the world of Microtech.

Now you are here calling me a liar?
Well since you just revealed that you pay $315 for DA/SOCOMs then you just admitted that you make more than $50 by selling one. Your site has them listed for $399.00. That is $84 profit on my calculator. You say you pay $7 shipping? What, you only buy 1 knife at a time? Not that there is anything wrong with that but even with the $7 in shipping that still leaves $77, right?

So since I don't have any in stock as you claim I will do this.

Anyone reading this thread can go buy the ones listed above for $299.95! Just put it in the comments section that you read this thread and I will automatically adjust your price. When you get your knife send an email to jferguson4@home.com and let him know you "IN FACT" got one.

Oh and guess what John, even at that price I will still be making money.

Want to make a bet that I paid less than $299 for the DA/SOCOMs I have right now and that I JUST GOT THEM?

Once the current stock is gone, I may, or may not raise my price. My decision, not yours John.

So I would suggest you drop your entire argument right now.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
 
Ok Spark, here is the point I was trying to make clear in my post waaaay back on page 2 I think. Now, I could go on and on about how many times Mike says he wasnt gonna compete. Well, as I said, things change. At the time, he owned WOW as a wholesaler. Now that he doesnt, I suppose his income has dropped quite a bit, I dont know. But, what is plain to see is that this site obviously needs money to run, and alot of it. Now, as I said, in the beginning, dealers were encouraged, no strings attached. I found a post today (from way back in the beginning) in which Mike said he would offer banner ads and accept donations. However, in the same breath, he said, nobody would receive "special" treatment. He implies that if a banner is bought, great, but if one was not bought, fine, all dealers are still welcome. IMO, the dealers that did not buy one were still invited with open arms. Its not fair for you to then turn around and call them leaches and freeloaders when they were simply taking you up on your offer at face value. Now, as I have stated, I love BF as much as the next guy, and whatever you come up with to keep it open, and make a good living is up to you. But, dont all of a sudden, change the rules and justify it by calling others names, and saying its all their fault. If you wanted them to pay in the first place, you should have just come out and told them. Its not fair to invite them, no strings attached and then sit and think what a bunch of leaches they are for not reading your mind. Hope this helps explain my view a little better.

Richard
 
Sorry if this message gets duplicated, but it did not go through the first time.

Let me tell you how "rotten" of a guy mike is. How he is s**tting all over the dealers and all.

Well, tonight mike solved a backorder problem I have been having for some time on a particular item. He did not have to do this, but he did get something in return of equal value. No muss, no fuss, no greasy residue, no backstabbing, no undercutting, etc.

I deal with a host of suppliers, probably about as many as mike, and know that he really isn't trying to compete with us here. What this boils down to really is that there is one more knife dealer out there. We should get back to business and stop all of this BS.

Bottom line is that BF is a moneymaker for knife dealers. Has been, and still is. I know, I've been making it good just in the last week or so.

Thanks Mike,

Spark, Peace Brother ?!

John

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Visit john@cumberlandknives.com

<A HREF="http://www.cumberland-knives.com" TARGET=_blank>www.cumberland-knives.com
</A>
for all your knife needs.
 
It's late and I don't have my glasses on Mike & Spark, but I must chime in before I go to bed. I've attempted to read this total thread and the one at KFC.

1."Nothing in life is for free".

2. "Nothing is forever"

3. "Mike & even Spark have to eat + pay bills

4. "Ever been at Church and noticed the collection plate go by. Lots of people their to be saved but few want to pay for it".

5. The Knife Manufacturers should have "deep pockets", it wouldn't hurt them to help. After all the more a dealer sells of their product, the more they order and the more knives they need to manufacture.

6. Sorry Chief, Walmart is the way of the world. 2 bucks on a 1000 knives is better that 100 bucks on 2 knives.

7. Way too much paranoia here. Feel like it's a poker game of card sharks, all worried who's going to cheat who first.

8. Knife nuts are outspoken and sometimes have some (even me are always right) extreme views.

9. I use to read KFC quite a bit, but after MadDog left it was not as entertaining. I think BF has better content.

I've only ever bought knives here, traded one, sold none. I've bought knives from the BF store and WOW (MIke you were on the phone, I think) and will probaby buy from 1stopknives. I buy users. lower end production and look for well made customs that I can afford (don't own any). Would have loved to have a web site and maybe even sell knives, but on a retired cops salary with 4 kids and a wife to support, I didn't take the plunge. (See even I'm whining)
My Mom and Pop worked 30 years in their own business 12 to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. Then the large chains came with multiple outlets and could sell product cheaper than they could buy wholesale. The world changes and so must we.

Lots more to say, way too late maybe tomorrow. My only advice to Mike and Spark is to stay impartial, hang in there and the strong will survive.
 
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