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Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
I can't believe this - I'm not only angry, but I'm extremely disappointed.
- Thread starter Spark
- Start date
- Status
I have had nothing but enjoyment from this forum. But, I have lived my life with the belief that integrity should come before profit, always.
I know that Mike and Spark have tried several times to raise funds for this site, and I know that I have not participated in all of them, though I'm happy to say I've directed other people to the BF native. I can easily see how frustrated someone could become with a site as popular as this, with traffic as heavy as this, and still be forking out money which to my poor mind, seems unbearable. But I do not believe all other options were exhausted before the knife store was opened.
Mike,
You once said you (BF) would never compete with the other dealers here. You have also said you would never charge members, and now you have said that the knife shop will be your only money raising venture. Which of these can I trust to be true?
I have to side with the advertisers who have posted here, Triple Aught, MJS, and any others who have added their input. You promised them a very good business deal, and then you took money from them. After wards you changed your policy. If you were a company I had paid money for a service from, I would want my money back, and a renegotiation of the contract if I decided any kind of service would continue. And I would have the legal right to request that.
I will continue to post and enjoy the discussions here on bladeforums. I would be happy to do many things to support the forum, and I like the 'Patron' idea voiced. Since you are running as a .com, and not a .org, I would like to see some kind of special oppurtunities available if you make such a list, such as one-time deals from your _dealers_, first dibs on special knives, or other such thing. There are many services you could offer that would be worth paying a small amount for, and you could probably make money on the other end too, only allow such sales from advertisers, or some other better deal for your other customers.
But I will not support the knife shop you've started. It goes against the grain of my being, less that you did it at all, than because you did it without the support of those who you have a financial contract with.
I wish the best for you, Mike and Spark, and believe you have created a wonderful place here. You will get many buyers at your store, some from sympathy, some from loyalty, and some because of good pricing. Each one of them will be a buyer that did not go to one of the dealers that has supported you. Do not steal from those who have brought you to this point.
Stryver
I know that Mike and Spark have tried several times to raise funds for this site, and I know that I have not participated in all of them, though I'm happy to say I've directed other people to the BF native. I can easily see how frustrated someone could become with a site as popular as this, with traffic as heavy as this, and still be forking out money which to my poor mind, seems unbearable. But I do not believe all other options were exhausted before the knife store was opened.
Mike,
You once said you (BF) would never compete with the other dealers here. You have also said you would never charge members, and now you have said that the knife shop will be your only money raising venture. Which of these can I trust to be true?
I have to side with the advertisers who have posted here, Triple Aught, MJS, and any others who have added their input. You promised them a very good business deal, and then you took money from them. After wards you changed your policy. If you were a company I had paid money for a service from, I would want my money back, and a renegotiation of the contract if I decided any kind of service would continue. And I would have the legal right to request that.
I will continue to post and enjoy the discussions here on bladeforums. I would be happy to do many things to support the forum, and I like the 'Patron' idea voiced. Since you are running as a .com, and not a .org, I would like to see some kind of special oppurtunities available if you make such a list, such as one-time deals from your _dealers_, first dibs on special knives, or other such thing. There are many services you could offer that would be worth paying a small amount for, and you could probably make money on the other end too, only allow such sales from advertisers, or some other better deal for your other customers.
But I will not support the knife shop you've started. It goes against the grain of my being, less that you did it at all, than because you did it without the support of those who you have a financial contract with.
I wish the best for you, Mike and Spark, and believe you have created a wonderful place here. You will get many buyers at your store, some from sympathy, some from loyalty, and some because of good pricing. Each one of them will be a buyer that did not go to one of the dealers that has supported you. Do not steal from those who have brought you to this point.
Stryver
pm
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 11, 1998
- Messages
- 492
jeepers!
...and it saddens me, the presence of the mental myopia which exists in certain posts...
uuuuhhh, okay...?
if mike were to lower his prices to "really make us miserable", after operational overhead(UPS, packaging, ink, etc)"1 stop" would be making about 2 cents a knife on many of the products they now offer.
well, IMHO....nope, uuuhhh nope...duuhesn't sound too uuuhh, smart to me....
not only does that not make business sense, but columbo's statement makes it sound like mike is capable of such annihilatory tactics.
but perhaps columbo is pointing out something...
yup, hhmmm? i see...by putting the paying supporting banner ad dealers out of business, BFC loses out on renewing subscribers next year. additional loss in revenue! ah-ha!
columbo, just a friendly suggestion to re-examine the logic of what you said with that statement.
especially since the nexus of this entire debate is founded in economic survival, symbiosis and equity.
i think the most pointed and meaningful comments have already been made and expressed. what needs to be done now is to see that agreements will be held to, let us get back to selling and buying cool knives, and that everyone can feel like they said what needed to be said and come up smelling like roses....
Otay?
and oh yes, i would like to say thanks to Kozak, Stryver, for the words of support if not at least the recognition of our position.
...and yes, you too mike, for your admittance.
[This message has been edited by pm (edited 03-10-2000).]
...and it saddens me, the presence of the mental myopia which exists in certain posts...
uuuuhhh, okay...?
if mike were to lower his prices to "really make us miserable", after operational overhead(UPS, packaging, ink, etc)"1 stop" would be making about 2 cents a knife on many of the products they now offer.
well, IMHO....nope, uuuhhh nope...duuhesn't sound too uuuhh, smart to me....
not only does that not make business sense, but columbo's statement makes it sound like mike is capable of such annihilatory tactics.
but perhaps columbo is pointing out something...
yup, hhmmm? i see...by putting the paying supporting banner ad dealers out of business, BFC loses out on renewing subscribers next year. additional loss in revenue! ah-ha!
columbo, just a friendly suggestion to re-examine the logic of what you said with that statement.
i think the most pointed and meaningful comments have already been made and expressed. what needs to be done now is to see that agreements will be held to, let us get back to selling and buying cool knives, and that everyone can feel like they said what needed to be said and come up smelling like roses....
Otay?
and oh yes, i would like to say thanks to Kozak, Stryver, for the words of support if not at least the recognition of our position.
...and yes, you too mike, for your admittance.
[This message has been edited by pm (edited 03-10-2000).]
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
What the hey !
What a reaction to a couple of adverse comments on another forum !
Geez.....BFC is not under some kind of totally unjustifiable attack.
Mike DID say he would not sell knives. And I thought I remembered that he once (long ago) said he no longer had any interest in ABC Direct...obviously, I got that wrong so it is understandable that others did, too. And it is understandable that some members and advertisers might be offended by a seeming change of policy in relation to competition.
Let them have their say without all of this "go away" stuff. After all, these are FORUMs and divergent views are ESSENTIAL.
And let us not blame knifeforums.com because dissidents chose to make their complaints there.....look at the kneejerk posts in THIS thread ! Kinda like virtual blood on the floor. Criticism of management is not for the faint of heart
But circumstances have changed...needs have changed. If Mike has to sell knifely stuff to keep the board going, so be it. As long as the paying advertisers are not disadvantaged by paying for something they are not getting.
As for all the expressions of indignation and support..... I wonder how many came with some sort of financial support.
Me ? Well, I made a modest donation when Mike mentioned that he was having $ problems several months ago. More recently, I donated for raffling the Blanchard Spyderco I won for naming the online magazine and look forward to seeing who wins it when it comes up.
And I would, probably, be willing to pay a small, monthly sub to keep in touch with the group. But, of course, recent abysmal experience with the online magazine indicates that about 99% of members do not agree.
How about more REAL support and less polemic ?
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BrianWE
What a reaction to a couple of adverse comments on another forum !
Geez.....BFC is not under some kind of totally unjustifiable attack.
Mike DID say he would not sell knives. And I thought I remembered that he once (long ago) said he no longer had any interest in ABC Direct...obviously, I got that wrong so it is understandable that others did, too. And it is understandable that some members and advertisers might be offended by a seeming change of policy in relation to competition.
Let them have their say without all of this "go away" stuff. After all, these are FORUMs and divergent views are ESSENTIAL.
And let us not blame knifeforums.com because dissidents chose to make their complaints there.....look at the kneejerk posts in THIS thread ! Kinda like virtual blood on the floor. Criticism of management is not for the faint of heart
But circumstances have changed...needs have changed. If Mike has to sell knifely stuff to keep the board going, so be it. As long as the paying advertisers are not disadvantaged by paying for something they are not getting.
As for all the expressions of indignation and support..... I wonder how many came with some sort of financial support.
Me ? Well, I made a modest donation when Mike mentioned that he was having $ problems several months ago. More recently, I donated for raffling the Blanchard Spyderco I won for naming the online magazine and look forward to seeing who wins it when it comes up.
And I would, probably, be willing to pay a small, monthly sub to keep in touch with the group. But, of course, recent abysmal experience with the online magazine indicates that about 99% of members do not agree.
How about more REAL support and less polemic ?
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BrianWE
pm,
I believe that the modest level of profit gained from the banner adds, etc. could be surpassed by the increased volume of sales without a suicidal decrease in prices. If the overall profit margins are similar to other markets, and I have no reason to suspect that they are not, then this should not be an unreasonable assumption.
I am certain that your anger is really directed at Mike and Spark, and if it makes you feel better to take it out on me, that's fine. But I don't believe my statements were beyond reason if you consider the big picture.
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Dave
------------------------
If at first you don't succeed, go buy a knife.
I believe that the modest level of profit gained from the banner adds, etc. could be surpassed by the increased volume of sales without a suicidal decrease in prices. If the overall profit margins are similar to other markets, and I have no reason to suspect that they are not, then this should not be an unreasonable assumption.
I am certain that your anger is really directed at Mike and Spark, and if it makes you feel better to take it out on me, that's fine. But I don't believe my statements were beyond reason if you consider the big picture.
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Dave
------------------------
If at first you don't succeed, go buy a knife.
Let me begin by saying I have learned more about knives here in 1 month than I hoped to in a year. What an asset.
I am very new here so none of this is emotional for me. I can see the emotion of those who have sweat and blood vested in this site on both sides of the argument. So here is my unbiased take.
Mike and Spark had to make a tough business decission. They chose the most logical one. It meant going back on a word they made. Not easy since they seem like honest folks.
I believe they should have worked something out with all paid advertisers before going public with their store. That aparently didn't happen but its never to late to set things right. I think paid dealers are more worried about fair treatment than competition. A resolution could be for all dealers who paid prior to 1stop to receive 6 months free advertisment to "show" that they are allowed to compete on a level field.
As a member/customer I will watch to see if 1stop competes fairly. I won't patronize them if they are not. I don't want to see any comments from them good, bad, or indefferent about other dealers. I would frown on any retailer who talks about their competiton especially if they hold the cards.
Truth be told I will make most of my purchases from a local retailer. I will pay them slightly higher prices because I like having a place to handle the knives I read about here. Of course a great deal is a great deal and I will take advantage of any I find here.
Members in general will be unaffected by this mess unless competition seases to exist. I don't believe Mike and Spark will allow that to happen. If they can make deals with manufacurers that allow them to sell at great prices members benefit. Other dealers will suffer due to lack of business savy. Thats honest competition.
Thats my say on the subject and I believe everyone is entitled to theirs. Even if they are wrong!
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"Fear the man who has nothing to lose"
I am very new here so none of this is emotional for me. I can see the emotion of those who have sweat and blood vested in this site on both sides of the argument. So here is my unbiased take.
Mike and Spark had to make a tough business decission. They chose the most logical one. It meant going back on a word they made. Not easy since they seem like honest folks.
I believe they should have worked something out with all paid advertisers before going public with their store. That aparently didn't happen but its never to late to set things right. I think paid dealers are more worried about fair treatment than competition. A resolution could be for all dealers who paid prior to 1stop to receive 6 months free advertisment to "show" that they are allowed to compete on a level field.
As a member/customer I will watch to see if 1stop competes fairly. I won't patronize them if they are not. I don't want to see any comments from them good, bad, or indefferent about other dealers. I would frown on any retailer who talks about their competiton especially if they hold the cards.
Truth be told I will make most of my purchases from a local retailer. I will pay them slightly higher prices because I like having a place to handle the knives I read about here. Of course a great deal is a great deal and I will take advantage of any I find here.
Members in general will be unaffected by this mess unless competition seases to exist. I don't believe Mike and Spark will allow that to happen. If they can make deals with manufacurers that allow them to sell at great prices members benefit. Other dealers will suffer due to lack of business savy. Thats honest competition.
Thats my say on the subject and I believe everyone is entitled to theirs. Even if they are wrong!
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"Fear the man who has nothing to lose"
How many dealers would be willing to sign a binding contract to pay for their advertising WHATEVER IT TAKES to keep BF running? I doubt that any would and I wouldn't blame them.
If the money doesn't come from advertising, and it doesn't come from members, then where will the money come from?
Yes, Mike broke his word about competing with dealers. I don't think that was his original intention. Does anyone here actually believe that? But things have changed. If you haven't noticed, the amount of traffic around here is awesome. This requires more roads, traffic cops, faster cop cars, more stoplights, etc. Who will pay? I know, let's let good ol' Mike pay for it out of his pocket and we will all be happy. Until he calls it quits and the place folds. Then how will the dealers benefit from that? Everyone will go to knifeforums and the cycle will repeat? I like knifeforums. Great place, good people, but kinda quiet there isn't it? How long before they start groaning under the weight of success?
It's like the local knife shop. They went out of business and everyone says, Gosh, I really liked that place. I wonder why they closed. I've seen this a lot in small archery shops.
The bottom line for dealers, I think, is: will this site continue to help their business? If not, then they have to decide what is best for them. As Mike had to decide what was best for BF and for himself.
BTW, I like the idea of a patron level. This is common in many professional organizations. All the professional organizations I belong to provide this level of participation. There is often another level as well, a lifetime membership. One lump sum. If I was Mike, I wouldn't close the door on any of these options. Lots of guys would like to have that senior member thing added back to their name, IF it actually meant something. If it was completely voluntary, why would anyone complain about it?
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Hoodoo
The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stonethe light-pressd blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.
Walt Whitman
If the money doesn't come from advertising, and it doesn't come from members, then where will the money come from?
Yes, Mike broke his word about competing with dealers. I don't think that was his original intention. Does anyone here actually believe that? But things have changed. If you haven't noticed, the amount of traffic around here is awesome. This requires more roads, traffic cops, faster cop cars, more stoplights, etc. Who will pay? I know, let's let good ol' Mike pay for it out of his pocket and we will all be happy. Until he calls it quits and the place folds. Then how will the dealers benefit from that? Everyone will go to knifeforums and the cycle will repeat? I like knifeforums. Great place, good people, but kinda quiet there isn't it? How long before they start groaning under the weight of success?
It's like the local knife shop. They went out of business and everyone says, Gosh, I really liked that place. I wonder why they closed. I've seen this a lot in small archery shops.
The bottom line for dealers, I think, is: will this site continue to help their business? If not, then they have to decide what is best for them. As Mike had to decide what was best for BF and for himself.
BTW, I like the idea of a patron level. This is common in many professional organizations. All the professional organizations I belong to provide this level of participation. There is often another level as well, a lifetime membership. One lump sum. If I was Mike, I wouldn't close the door on any of these options. Lots of guys would like to have that senior member thing added back to their name, IF it actually meant something. If it was completely voluntary, why would anyone complain about it?
------------------
Hoodoo
The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stonethe light-pressd blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.
Walt Whitman
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
Most of the ideas brought up in this thread have been tried before or are simply not in the cards. The main one that we can not do is charge members and then put a tag on their name. The member tag is based on posts and we can not change that feature as it is part of the software. We did have that ability at one time, when we called Walt Welch "Whacko"
The more succesful this site becomes, the more the dealers will benefit from it.
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
The more succesful this site becomes, the more the dealers will benefit from it.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 452
Mike and Kevin,
The BEST idea to come out of this thread was to add a tag line to people who contribute. I went to the patriot/survival board that was mentioned in the thread over on KFC and they do just that. You get a tag line saying that you contributed to their youth shooting organization. What a great idea! That way it would be a completely voluntary donation and no one could say their arm was twisted. The people who donated would have "bragging rights" that they contribute next to their name each time they posted. I don't need to remind you how many people had useless posts just so they could have "senior" next to their name. Something like GOLD MEMBER should be enough to get the ball rolling. I have been here every day since June of 99 and I am guilty as anyone of not supporting this place. Everyone who has said "If you decide to charge to come here just let me know and I would be happy to give"- why not just give a small donation like Brian Edginton did? I will be. I will also let everyone know when I do so that it might prompt someone else. Brians post did just that with me. My knife knowledge has grown 1000 fold since I started coming here. It is time I start to give something back.
As for the dealers complaining, they have a legitimate gripe. The one's who bought a years worth of adds that they haven't gotten yet are not getting the product they were sold. Wouldn't you complain if the knife you bought had a big scratch down the middle of the blade? To blindly attack anyone who has a gripe with Mike or Kevin is to do exactly what everyone claims the Maddog crowd does. Blind allegiance serves no one. I think Mike and Kevin have every right to change their position and protect their interests. God knows they have tried everthing they could to help keep this place alive. The people who were sold ad time under the premise of no competition should be offered a refund for any remaining ads. This is just good customer service and nothing any one of us wouldn't expect.
Take care,
Jim
The BEST idea to come out of this thread was to add a tag line to people who contribute. I went to the patriot/survival board that was mentioned in the thread over on KFC and they do just that. You get a tag line saying that you contributed to their youth shooting organization. What a great idea! That way it would be a completely voluntary donation and no one could say their arm was twisted. The people who donated would have "bragging rights" that they contribute next to their name each time they posted. I don't need to remind you how many people had useless posts just so they could have "senior" next to their name. Something like GOLD MEMBER should be enough to get the ball rolling. I have been here every day since June of 99 and I am guilty as anyone of not supporting this place. Everyone who has said "If you decide to charge to come here just let me know and I would be happy to give"- why not just give a small donation like Brian Edginton did? I will be. I will also let everyone know when I do so that it might prompt someone else. Brians post did just that with me. My knife knowledge has grown 1000 fold since I started coming here. It is time I start to give something back.
As for the dealers complaining, they have a legitimate gripe. The one's who bought a years worth of adds that they haven't gotten yet are not getting the product they were sold. Wouldn't you complain if the knife you bought had a big scratch down the middle of the blade? To blindly attack anyone who has a gripe with Mike or Kevin is to do exactly what everyone claims the Maddog crowd does. Blind allegiance serves no one. I think Mike and Kevin have every right to change their position and protect their interests. God knows they have tried everthing they could to help keep this place alive. The people who were sold ad time under the premise of no competition should be offered a refund for any remaining ads. This is just good customer service and nothing any one of us wouldn't expect.
Take care,
Jim
- Joined
- Oct 12, 1998
- Messages
- 1,647
There's been alot said, and alot of accusations that have been tossed about regarding Mike's motives, but I am a bit disturbed how he has been implied to be a liar, or has broken his word. Liars do so usually with malicious intent, but that does not seem to be the case here.
Many of us here, I'm sure, has made a statement to a friend, a loved one, spouse or child, and after a period of time, with a number of changing circumstances, has had to change their former position. Can you imagine, after promising your child to go to the park and fly kites on a Saturday, that you had an important work deadline to meet and had to go into the office? What do you say when your child looks you in the eye and says, "but dad, you promised"?
I'm sure this was not an easy choice to make, but the continued growth of Blade Forums will require re-examining the site from a business standpoint from time to time. Mike and Spark could probably be making boatloads more money running a porn site, but that's not their bag. They don't need this kind of hassle, conflict, and cyber-sniping. But, they're knifeknuts, like us. With everything that Bladeforums has given to us, I think we need to be a bit more understanding and supportive of the decisions they make that will allow them to continue bringing Blade Forums to us.
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Don LeHue
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings...they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
Many of us here, I'm sure, has made a statement to a friend, a loved one, spouse or child, and after a period of time, with a number of changing circumstances, has had to change their former position. Can you imagine, after promising your child to go to the park and fly kites on a Saturday, that you had an important work deadline to meet and had to go into the office? What do you say when your child looks you in the eye and says, "but dad, you promised"?
I'm sure this was not an easy choice to make, but the continued growth of Blade Forums will require re-examining the site from a business standpoint from time to time. Mike and Spark could probably be making boatloads more money running a porn site, but that's not their bag. They don't need this kind of hassle, conflict, and cyber-sniping. But, they're knifeknuts, like us. With everything that Bladeforums has given to us, I think we need to be a bit more understanding and supportive of the decisions they make that will allow them to continue bringing Blade Forums to us.
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Don LeHue
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings...they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
I am not a dealer, but think if you make money from the site, you should put some back in. I think the accusations and negative tone to the posts detract from the site. I don't buy a lot of knives, but would be willing to donate money to the operation (how do you do that BTW?). I think Mike and Spark are doing one helluva job, considering the operations, projects, etc. that are needed, and the negative influence from dealers that don't want to contribute, just take. To Mike and Spark, keep your chin up, you are in the right, so don't let them get you down!
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A knife is by default a tool, it's only a weapon when a human chooses to make it so.
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A knife is by default a tool, it's only a weapon when a human chooses to make it so.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 1998
- Messages
- 3,096
The problem I have with the 1stopstore is not as much Mike opening it after saying he wouldnt (although that would really make me mad me if I had already paid the $500 for a years worth of banner advertising which I was on the verge of doing) but its the sales mentality I see in the 1stop store. 1stop would rather sell 1000 items for $2 profit ($2000 profit total) than sell 100 items for $20 profit (again $2000 profit total). Those of you who have never been in retail sales may not see the problem with this but I will try to explain. The customer can get much more personalized service from a dealer selling 100 items rather than 1000 items. When you use the sell all you can $2 profit method, you dont have time to interact with each customer and give him or her the personal attention they deserve. Internet dealers have less overhead than storefronts and can sell for a less than MSRP, but should we be selling for $2 over dealer cost? NO.
If you like placing an automated order and waiting two days to even see if it is available from the distributor, be my guest. But if you want information on black vs silver or plain vs serrated or this knife vs that knife or immediate availability and a dealer takes time to quickly answer your questions thoroughly and personally, you should buy from that dealer, even if his prices are $20 higher. You are paying for his or her knowledge, time, and personal commitment to ensure your 100% satisfaction. You know that when you receive that knife that the dealer personally inspected it for flaws and didnt send you a defective product instead of using the conveyer belt mentality. You probably built a friendship with that dealer, and when he or she gets a new hot item or special run, you will get first crack at owning one. To the database dealer, you are simply a credit card number. Too impersonal for me.
Why did Mike Gallagher throw in the towel with ABC-Direct, wasnt it something about not being able to get the product? Why couldnt he get the product? Manufacturers do not like seeing Internet dealers killing the price on their product using the $2 profit marketing mentality. They support their legitimate dealers and its crucial to the manufacturers for their dealers to survive. Dealers deserve to make a decent living too.
Mike, you say you support CRKs marketing strategy, but then when Spyderco does something similar, you suggest that its illegal? Please explain this apparent doubletalk. How about an answer to my suggestion to not allow Makers to advertise in the Makers for Sale forum unless they too have a banner, treating them the same way as you are treating the dealers? If its fair for one entity that profits from BF and sells knives, why isnt it fair for others who profit from BF and sells knives? You do not want to treat them this way as you know you cant expand into custom knife sales and lowball their products.
Those of you who are not dealers really dont know enough about this issue to make name calling or go away comments. If you think it is easy, give it a try.
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Chiefs Cutlery and Web Design Specializing in Microtech Knives
If you like placing an automated order and waiting two days to even see if it is available from the distributor, be my guest. But if you want information on black vs silver or plain vs serrated or this knife vs that knife or immediate availability and a dealer takes time to quickly answer your questions thoroughly and personally, you should buy from that dealer, even if his prices are $20 higher. You are paying for his or her knowledge, time, and personal commitment to ensure your 100% satisfaction. You know that when you receive that knife that the dealer personally inspected it for flaws and didnt send you a defective product instead of using the conveyer belt mentality. You probably built a friendship with that dealer, and when he or she gets a new hot item or special run, you will get first crack at owning one. To the database dealer, you are simply a credit card number. Too impersonal for me.
Why did Mike Gallagher throw in the towel with ABC-Direct, wasnt it something about not being able to get the product? Why couldnt he get the product? Manufacturers do not like seeing Internet dealers killing the price on their product using the $2 profit marketing mentality. They support their legitimate dealers and its crucial to the manufacturers for their dealers to survive. Dealers deserve to make a decent living too.
Mike, you say you support CRKs marketing strategy, but then when Spyderco does something similar, you suggest that its illegal? Please explain this apparent doubletalk. How about an answer to my suggestion to not allow Makers to advertise in the Makers for Sale forum unless they too have a banner, treating them the same way as you are treating the dealers? If its fair for one entity that profits from BF and sells knives, why isnt it fair for others who profit from BF and sells knives? You do not want to treat them this way as you know you cant expand into custom knife sales and lowball their products.
Those of you who are not dealers really dont know enough about this issue to make name calling or go away comments. If you think it is easy, give it a try.
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Chiefs Cutlery and Web Design Specializing in Microtech Knives
It mildly saddens me to see this conflict.
I understand it must happen, and I see it as the normal consequence of human beings simultaneously creating a new world and learning how to operate within it.
A public arena of such extraordinary scope as the internet exposes the actors to unprecedented criticism and personal liability.
Although the players see each other as adversaries, I see them as explorers.
A strange analogy: imagine men with little experience at sea building their ship enroute and learning to sail it at the same time; I would expect frustrations and accusations as a regular part of the process, especially since they have agreed only to voyage together and not on the destination of the ship; I don't see any villains but I understand the animosity.
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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
I understand it must happen, and I see it as the normal consequence of human beings simultaneously creating a new world and learning how to operate within it.
A public arena of such extraordinary scope as the internet exposes the actors to unprecedented criticism and personal liability.
Although the players see each other as adversaries, I see them as explorers.
A strange analogy: imagine men with little experience at sea building their ship enroute and learning to sail it at the same time; I would expect frustrations and accusations as a regular part of the process, especially since they have agreed only to voyage together and not on the destination of the ship; I don't see any villains but I understand the animosity.
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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 1999
- Messages
- 1,910
Chief,
I agree that the sort of service a dealer like you provides is worth the extra money you have to charge, but I don't think it's fair to accuse Mike of lowball pricing at 1StopKnifeShop. I recently purchased a Spyderco Centofante Jr. for $17 less than 1StopKnifeShop charges, and what I paid wasn't even the lowest price available on the web. Except for his sale items, all the Spyderco products are at least $10-$20 more than any number of online dealers charge.
Mike -- I think Chief has a good point: if dealers have to buy advertising, then makers should too. It's only fair.
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Dave
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of More Knives
I agree that the sort of service a dealer like you provides is worth the extra money you have to charge, but I don't think it's fair to accuse Mike of lowball pricing at 1StopKnifeShop. I recently purchased a Spyderco Centofante Jr. for $17 less than 1StopKnifeShop charges, and what I paid wasn't even the lowest price available on the web. Except for his sale items, all the Spyderco products are at least $10-$20 more than any number of online dealers charge.
Mike -- I think Chief has a good point: if dealers have to buy advertising, then makers should too. It's only fair.
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Dave
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of More Knives
pm
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 11, 1998
- Messages
- 492
with all due respect columbo,
that's just i was presenting to you, an idea of the bigger picture.
for "1 stop" to lower some of their prices any further just for "spite's sake" as you suggested, would be a self defeating tactic. sure, in the short term it may draw a significant percentage away from other dealers, but at the loss at which 1 stop would be running at it would be a move towards self extinction.
the bigger picture which i tried to convey to you is that BFC cannot hurt it's banner ad dealers in the manner you suggested, without ultimately hurting themselves in some way in regards to revenue.
here's is a little peek behind some of the numbers to help you understand that your assumption is flawed.
many products which are on a "great price point" operate on maybe a 20% margin. to defeat that margin one would have to lower their competing price to say 15%. subtract anywhere 3-4% fees incurred by financial institutions for using CC terminal and we are now at a 11% margin. Factor in Federal retail tax, in state retail tax, and a whole host of other operations costs(payroll, office supplies, UPS/Fedex/USPS shipping accounts, etc) and one is left with perhaps 6-8% profit at best for items priced at this level.
for a knife of which is sold for $129.00 the actual margin of profit is $7.74. to make up a decent day, one would have to sell one heck of a lot of BM3550's!
incidently, please check the prices for their benchmade auto's on the first day 1 stop opened to where the prices are at now...
it is clear some adjusting was made, probably at behest of Benchmade themselves.
BTW, just about a year and a half ago, Mr. Turber was so angry at BM and their new pricing policies, it led to a venmous diatribe posted on every knife forum, and an udying pledge to never do business with them again! gosh darn it!
columbo,
bear in mind i was not angry at you at all. you need not feel that way. my response to you was to compel you to re-examine what you were saying and how. under reasonable scrutiny and thru a process of logic, some of your original comments were seemingly rather off base and unfocused tangents.
you can commend yourself absolutely for coming to the defense of mike and spark, however your comments directed to the advertising banner dealers and the suggestions that "1 stop" could "make our lives miserable" was rather, well...can i say?...mildly insulting.
also how would mike feel about you implying that he could use such a shallow and dis-honorable tactic?
as for some other comments regarding "breaking promises to your kids" as an "acceptable guideline" and rationale for justifying breaking a promise on a professional level is a downright silly.
so what that means, is the next time someone makes an order and we promise to send a NEMESIS 3 but we end up sending a Benchmade; that would be okay, because we would simply explain we needed to do so,..."it's like breaking a promise to take our kid to the park...it couldn't be helped...it's a matter of survival!"
i really doubt that i would be receiving much support for that type of behavior! we would be shot down in flames in a second if we could not deliver a product or service as promised. BFC members would not stand for it. right?
yup.
anyways much if this commentary now is all tangental....
Most Cordially,
------------------
PATRICK YORK MA
TRIPLE AUGHT DESIGN
Your edged tool & extreme gear resource for professionals, adventurers and enthusiasts.
velox@slip.net
[This message has been edited by pm (edited 03-10-2000).]
that's just i was presenting to you, an idea of the bigger picture.
for "1 stop" to lower some of their prices any further just for "spite's sake" as you suggested, would be a self defeating tactic. sure, in the short term it may draw a significant percentage away from other dealers, but at the loss at which 1 stop would be running at it would be a move towards self extinction.
the bigger picture which i tried to convey to you is that BFC cannot hurt it's banner ad dealers in the manner you suggested, without ultimately hurting themselves in some way in regards to revenue.
here's is a little peek behind some of the numbers to help you understand that your assumption is flawed.
many products which are on a "great price point" operate on maybe a 20% margin. to defeat that margin one would have to lower their competing price to say 15%. subtract anywhere 3-4% fees incurred by financial institutions for using CC terminal and we are now at a 11% margin. Factor in Federal retail tax, in state retail tax, and a whole host of other operations costs(payroll, office supplies, UPS/Fedex/USPS shipping accounts, etc) and one is left with perhaps 6-8% profit at best for items priced at this level.
for a knife of which is sold for $129.00 the actual margin of profit is $7.74. to make up a decent day, one would have to sell one heck of a lot of BM3550's!
incidently, please check the prices for their benchmade auto's on the first day 1 stop opened to where the prices are at now...
it is clear some adjusting was made, probably at behest of Benchmade themselves.
BTW, just about a year and a half ago, Mr. Turber was so angry at BM and their new pricing policies, it led to a venmous diatribe posted on every knife forum, and an udying pledge to never do business with them again! gosh darn it!
columbo,
bear in mind i was not angry at you at all. you need not feel that way. my response to you was to compel you to re-examine what you were saying and how. under reasonable scrutiny and thru a process of logic, some of your original comments were seemingly rather off base and unfocused tangents.
you can commend yourself absolutely for coming to the defense of mike and spark, however your comments directed to the advertising banner dealers and the suggestions that "1 stop" could "make our lives miserable" was rather, well...can i say?...mildly insulting.
also how would mike feel about you implying that he could use such a shallow and dis-honorable tactic?
as for some other comments regarding "breaking promises to your kids" as an "acceptable guideline" and rationale for justifying breaking a promise on a professional level is a downright silly.
so what that means, is the next time someone makes an order and we promise to send a NEMESIS 3 but we end up sending a Benchmade; that would be okay, because we would simply explain we needed to do so,..."it's like breaking a promise to take our kid to the park...it couldn't be helped...it's a matter of survival!"
i really doubt that i would be receiving much support for that type of behavior! we would be shot down in flames in a second if we could not deliver a product or service as promised. BFC members would not stand for it. right?
yup.
anyways much if this commentary now is all tangental....
Most Cordially,
------------------
PATRICK YORK MA
TRIPLE AUGHT DESIGN
www.tripleaughtdesign.com
Your edged tool & extreme gear resource for professionals, adventurers and enthusiasts.
velox@slip.net
[This message has been edited by pm (edited 03-10-2000).]
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,219
I've stayed out of this thread for a little while, but there are some issues that are being melded together that need to stay clearly delineated.
Some people seem to be confusing the banner advertising that we provide with the separate issue of our opening a knife store. These are two completely separate issues altogether.
Banner Advertising -
In other words - for anyone to say that they aren't getting what they paid for is completely 100% wrong. I said it before, and I'll say it again - we're not hiding any banner ads, or skewing the rotations so that 1SKS banners show up more than anyone elses, or redirecting banners from the advertisers sites to our sites, or anything else that would be dishonest. We haven't contacted any advertiser and said there are new prices and the fee they have paid is no longer in effect.
For $50 per month, advertisers are getting a hell of a lot more than they would get anywhere else. We even give you the opportunity to change your banner out for free once a month. It's up to you to take advantage of the opportunity.
If any advertiser feels that they aren't getting what they have paid for, or feels that their banner is not being rotated fairly, they are more than welcome to contact me for either
Our opening OneStopKnifeShop.com
Chief, I'm glad you just chimed in.
Your arguments would mean more to me if you provided any proof to them, and if you weren't acting like the very people who have freeloaded off this site.
Now, to answer the rest of your questions -
We're not going to charge custom makers to sell their knives in the Makers forum. They need more help then dealers do - which is why we also cut them a break on banner advertising rates.
Quite Frankly, Chief, it's not any of your business why Mike Gallagher closed ABC-Direct, and it's rude for you to ask. It was a business decision that's not any of your business, or even ours. It was a personal decison he made after long thought, for whatever reason; it was his decision to make.
About CRK and Spyderco or any other manufacturer that sells through distributors - there's a big difference between dealer direct and selling through distributors. If you don't know about RICO and price fixing, I'd suggest you read up on it - 9West just had to settle a major lawsuit for business practices similar to what we are seeing in the knife industry. It will certainly have some interesting ramifications, and I'd be suprised if there isn't at least one lawsuit over it. Unfortunately, that is another issue, another thread and topic alltogether.
Sorry you missed out on the Free Ride, Chief, but it's now over. If you can't afford $50 a month to sell your products (those Microtech Knives have a hell of a margin, this should be easy for you), then you don't need to be a dealer.
It's time for all of the dealers who use BladeForums.com to make a choice. Either you are going to get serious and sell products, or you aren't.
But BladeForums.com is no longer an "all you can eat buffet" for dealers to make a buck without giving anything back. Ask Tactical Knives and Blade Magazine if you can sell your products for free and then come back and tell me that our rates are unreasonable.
As for you, Patrick, the Benchmade prices were our mistake, as they were based on a 1999 price sheet. They were changed immediately when we got the updated price list for 2000. But, all orders that were placed at the lower price were honored. That's good business - we made a mistake and did the right thing, then corrected the prices in question.
Chief, Patrick, and any other dealer that thinks we aren't being "fair", I'll make you a hell of a deal.
Mike and I are willing to close 1SKS right here and now. We'll split all the costs it takes to run this site (hardware, connectivity, labor, software) among all of the dealers.
Those dealers who help pay (the more there are, the less you pay) will be able to sell in the dealer forum and have free banner advertising. It shouldn't be more than $1000 per month a piece, if 15 of you jump in on it. Like I said, the more dealers there are, the less you pay.... and Mike and I will dedicate ourselves to making sure that you get what you paid for. Heck, we'd even help you out on website design, image editing, search engine placement, etc. Think of it as paying $1000 a month for on demand tech support and consulting.
Interested in that deal, Chief? No? I didn't think so.
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. I'm not paying for yours anymore - it's time for you to pay your own way. If you don't pay, you don't get to advertise - it's that simple. But don't whine to me about how unfair it is that you have to pay your own way.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
Some people seem to be confusing the banner advertising that we provide with the separate issue of our opening a knife store. These are two completely separate issues altogether.
Banner Advertising -
- The only thing that we promised is that for the fees that we posted, your banner would rotate evenly throughout all of the forums, and the links section. We promised no click through charges, or charge-per-impression fees. We have more than delivered this to each and every advertiser.
- On top of this, we've provided statistics for you to look at on demand, at any time. You should be able to look at the reports and see pretty clearly if we suddenly started hiding your banners. The daily impressions and click-throughs have remained consistent for each and every account, allowing for the addition and subtraction of banners in rotation.
- There was never a promise that having a banner on BladeForums.com would lock you into any single price, or that you would be granted any other services. There was no promise that if you bought a banner, we wouldn't sell products or knives, or do whatever else we needed to do in order to stay open.
- What we *have* done now, however, is prevented non advertisers from advertising in the Knives For Sale: Dealers section, where before anyone and everyone could do so. This eliminates a lot of your competition right there; we are looking out for the dealers that take care of us. We've also allowed only paying dealers the chance to have their own forum for customer service, sales, etc. Paying advertisers still have the same opportunities that they had before - if not more since we're doing everything we can to stop the freeloaders.
In other words - for anyone to say that they aren't getting what they paid for is completely 100% wrong. I said it before, and I'll say it again - we're not hiding any banner ads, or skewing the rotations so that 1SKS banners show up more than anyone elses, or redirecting banners from the advertisers sites to our sites, or anything else that would be dishonest. We haven't contacted any advertiser and said there are new prices and the fee they have paid is no longer in effect.
For $50 per month, advertisers are getting a hell of a lot more than they would get anywhere else. We even give you the opportunity to change your banner out for free once a month. It's up to you to take advantage of the opportunity.
If any advertiser feels that they aren't getting what they have paid for, or feels that their banner is not being rotated fairly, they are more than welcome to contact me for either
- Detailed statistics comparing how their banner is doing compared to all of the rest; or
- A pro-rated refund for the amount of time left in their ad campaign. Please note that if you cancel your banner ad, you will not be able to post knives for sale in the Dealer forum, as that is reserved for paying customers.
Our opening OneStopKnifeShop.com
- We realize that by opening this site, we'd be going back on one of the 2 most important promises we made - not to compete with the dealers (the other being that members wouldn't have to pay to use this site). Unfortunately, we have to look at reality - we tried *everything* before we opened up OneStopKnifeShop.com, and nothing produced lasting results. You can't *try* to pay your bills, you either do, or you don't - and if we don't, you don't get to use this site.
- The arguments that 1SKS is an unbeatable juggernaut don't really make sense to me - 1SKS doesn't have the lowest prices out there, nor does it have an established customer base. 1SKS has to face the same supply problems as the regular dealers, and remember, WOW is no longer in knife wholesale, so there are no advantages there as well.
- It is our earnest intention to make sure that we are not abusing any of the dealers by breaking any of the rules we've already set. I've already pledged that 1SKS isn't going to advertise outside of the Exchange section (except for the special BladeForums.com knives and related BF merchandise). If we do, you can feel free to call me on it and make as big a stink as you want. I have no fear of that happening.
Chief, I'm glad you just chimed in.
Your arguments would mean more to me if you provided any proof to them, and if you weren't acting like the very people who have freeloaded off this site.
- Other than the products which appear on the specials page, I challenge you to find any price on 1SKS that is "$2 over dealer cost" - your words. In fact, I don't think you've even looked at 1SKS, because if you did, you'd see the prices are not insanely low, nor are we going for the "would rather sell 1000 items for $2 profit" crowd. In other words, you don't know what you are talking about. If you are paying prices that make our retail equal $2 over your cost, then you are buying from the wrong distributor.
- I'll thank you not to disparage our levels of service as a competitor, nor badmouth us on things you know nothing about - I wouldn't badmouth you as a competitor, period. On top of that, you don't know anything about how 1SKS conducts itself business-wise; if you did, you wouldn't be making those claims. In addition, you seem to be complaining alot about our stock situation and what we can and cannot get. We've already proven you wrong on multiple issues (Mini Socoms, etc), so why exactly are you publicly crusading against us? Is this your idea of good business practice?
- Finally, as someone who "specializes in Microtech Knives", you especially have no reason to complain about our charging dealers to sell in the Knives For Sale: Dealer forum, or our banner rates. You could make 1 Microtech sale per month and easily pay for 2 months of advertising. You unwillingness to pay for advertising proves to me that you are basically just looking for a free ride - and if you can't get one, you don't want anyone to make any sales at all. Your complaining now is just an excuse for you not to - it doesn't hide the fact that you are simply unwilling to pay at all - even at our extremely low rates. Don't tell me that you can't afford it - advertising costs no matter what medium you use. I'm just not willing to pay my money so that you can advertise anymore.
Now, to answer the rest of your questions -
We're not going to charge custom makers to sell their knives in the Makers forum. They need more help then dealers do - which is why we also cut them a break on banner advertising rates.
Quite Frankly, Chief, it's not any of your business why Mike Gallagher closed ABC-Direct, and it's rude for you to ask. It was a business decision that's not any of your business, or even ours. It was a personal decison he made after long thought, for whatever reason; it was his decision to make.
About CRK and Spyderco or any other manufacturer that sells through distributors - there's a big difference between dealer direct and selling through distributors. If you don't know about RICO and price fixing, I'd suggest you read up on it - 9West just had to settle a major lawsuit for business practices similar to what we are seeing in the knife industry. It will certainly have some interesting ramifications, and I'd be suprised if there isn't at least one lawsuit over it. Unfortunately, that is another issue, another thread and topic alltogether.
Sorry you missed out on the Free Ride, Chief, but it's now over. If you can't afford $50 a month to sell your products (those Microtech Knives have a hell of a margin, this should be easy for you), then you don't need to be a dealer.
It's time for all of the dealers who use BladeForums.com to make a choice. Either you are going to get serious and sell products, or you aren't.
But BladeForums.com is no longer an "all you can eat buffet" for dealers to make a buck without giving anything back. Ask Tactical Knives and Blade Magazine if you can sell your products for free and then come back and tell me that our rates are unreasonable.
As for you, Patrick, the Benchmade prices were our mistake, as they were based on a 1999 price sheet. They were changed immediately when we got the updated price list for 2000. But, all orders that were placed at the lower price were honored. That's good business - we made a mistake and did the right thing, then corrected the prices in question.
Chief, Patrick, and any other dealer that thinks we aren't being "fair", I'll make you a hell of a deal.
Mike and I are willing to close 1SKS right here and now. We'll split all the costs it takes to run this site (hardware, connectivity, labor, software) among all of the dealers.
Those dealers who help pay (the more there are, the less you pay) will be able to sell in the dealer forum and have free banner advertising. It shouldn't be more than $1000 per month a piece, if 15 of you jump in on it. Like I said, the more dealers there are, the less you pay.... and Mike and I will dedicate ourselves to making sure that you get what you paid for. Heck, we'd even help you out on website design, image editing, search engine placement, etc. Think of it as paying $1000 a month for on demand tech support and consulting.
Interested in that deal, Chief? No? I didn't think so.
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. I'm not paying for yours anymore - it's time for you to pay your own way. If you don't pay, you don't get to advertise - it's that simple. But don't whine to me about how unfair it is that you have to pay your own way.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
- Joined
- Oct 12, 1998
- Messages
- 1,647
Patrick, I'm sorry if you think that my analogy was "silly". I was trying to make a point that you took to be more than it should have been. I get the feeling that you have more of a stake in this issue than others, and I don't know why.
Every business needs both short term and long term growth goals. It's a matter of connecting the dots (short term goals) on your way to drawing as straight a path as possible to your long-term objective (wealth, your own island in the Bahamas, a six-pack of Dodge Vipers, whatever). You're a businessman, and you know this already. But did you set your business plan into motion and think that you would never have to re-evaluate your position and modify your goals from time to time based on the market, the general health of the industry, or the shifting sands of this evil Internet? That would be silly.
Breaking promises, lying, re-evaluating one's position, whether on a personal or business level, is never to be taken lightly, and it doesn't seem to me that it was in this particular case. The decision process and the reasons behind it was explained, and while I'm not in the position of the dealers here, I personally didn't see any specific malice behind it. If I missed something obvious, then I better not quit my day job and go into business for myself, as the first time a building landlord has to raise the lease, my feeling are sure going to be hurt.
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Don LeHue
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings...they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
Every business needs both short term and long term growth goals. It's a matter of connecting the dots (short term goals) on your way to drawing as straight a path as possible to your long-term objective (wealth, your own island in the Bahamas, a six-pack of Dodge Vipers, whatever). You're a businessman, and you know this already. But did you set your business plan into motion and think that you would never have to re-evaluate your position and modify your goals from time to time based on the market, the general health of the industry, or the shifting sands of this evil Internet? That would be silly.
Breaking promises, lying, re-evaluating one's position, whether on a personal or business level, is never to be taken lightly, and it doesn't seem to me that it was in this particular case. The decision process and the reasons behind it was explained, and while I'm not in the position of the dealers here, I personally didn't see any specific malice behind it. If I missed something obvious, then I better not quit my day job and go into business for myself, as the first time a building landlord has to raise the lease, my feeling are sure going to be hurt.
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Don LeHue
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings...they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,219
Richard, what is the picture that you were trying to paint?
Yes we invited everyone here and we still do so.
Yes, we had to change our policies to reflect current conditions. That's a fact of business. I'm terribly sorry that I couldn't continue to provide a free service for non-advertising dealers to make money off of - how unreasonable of me to even suggest that someone should pay to advertise. In that same vien, how dare any company raise prices for their products, no matter what.
We had a 17 month free ride - plenty of time to build up a business. We have prices more reasonable than a newspaper. Yet somehow we're still being unfair?
Richard, be more specific and I'll deal with your issues point per point. But don't just jumble everything together with rhetoric and not accept my explanations. Point to specifics.
We gave plenty of warning that things were going to change. We've raised banner prices and people still didn't take advantage of it. We've tried every solution to this problem (paying for BladeForums.com).
Our opening a knife store forced us to go back on a promise, and we're sorry that we had to do it. But, that being said, it was something that we had to do. We've tried everything else.
The dealers who advertise have a legitimate complaint, and I don't know what else I can do to promise them that we're not going to screw them over. I've given my word, and I'll hope that suffices given my track record. They don't like it, but we still have bills to pay and we can either raise their prices through the roof, or we could open up a knife store and be fair about it.
Put yourself in my shoes - what would you do in our situation? Give me a solid solution to this problem, if you can.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
Yes we invited everyone here and we still do so.
Yes, we had to change our policies to reflect current conditions. That's a fact of business. I'm terribly sorry that I couldn't continue to provide a free service for non-advertising dealers to make money off of - how unreasonable of me to even suggest that someone should pay to advertise. In that same vien, how dare any company raise prices for their products, no matter what.
We had a 17 month free ride - plenty of time to build up a business. We have prices more reasonable than a newspaper. Yet somehow we're still being unfair?
Richard, be more specific and I'll deal with your issues point per point. But don't just jumble everything together with rhetoric and not accept my explanations. Point to specifics.
We gave plenty of warning that things were going to change. We've raised banner prices and people still didn't take advantage of it. We've tried every solution to this problem (paying for BladeForums.com).
Our opening a knife store forced us to go back on a promise, and we're sorry that we had to do it. But, that being said, it was something that we had to do. We've tried everything else.
The dealers who advertise have a legitimate complaint, and I don't know what else I can do to promise them that we're not going to screw them over. I've given my word, and I'll hope that suffices given my track record. They don't like it, but we still have bills to pay and we can either raise their prices through the roof, or we could open up a knife store and be fair about it.
Put yourself in my shoes - what would you do in our situation? Give me a solid solution to this problem, if you can.
Spark
------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 03-10-2000).]
Spark,
i have a quick question regarding your last post. if you are willing to charge each of us dealers 1000.00 a month for the site.
how much would it take to buy it out right?
and im meaning buy the intire site. supposeing this is something you wanted to do of course.
if you were to sell it then all your burdens with this would be gone at that point.
and then you could get on to selling knives
at the 1 SKS with out hereing from all of us dealers that the store is hurting us.
i for one welcome competion on an even playing field. so that would nearly make all of us even. well with the exception of say i bought the forums then i would be in your position. speaking hypotheticly of course.
shoot me a number on this.
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Mark-@-MJS
mjsknives.com
knifeman@mjsknives.com
1-800-434-5073
good as the best and better then the rest.
i have a quick question regarding your last post. if you are willing to charge each of us dealers 1000.00 a month for the site.
how much would it take to buy it out right?
and im meaning buy the intire site. supposeing this is something you wanted to do of course.
if you were to sell it then all your burdens with this would be gone at that point.
and then you could get on to selling knives
at the 1 SKS with out hereing from all of us dealers that the store is hurting us.
i for one welcome competion on an even playing field. so that would nearly make all of us even. well with the exception of say i bought the forums then i would be in your position. speaking hypotheticly of course.
shoot me a number on this.
------------------
Mark-@-MJS
mjsknives.com
knifeman@mjsknives.com
1-800-434-5073
good as the best and better then the rest.
- Status