I don't know if I should be happy for him or not...

Varg Lobos said:
That press release says it'll shift production to NY.
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Too bad, part of the attraction for me personally to Ranger was supporting a Minnesota company. I suppose though Justin will continue the customs here.
 
Man, I sure wish I had picked up another RD-7 when I had the chance. I'll have to check the QC when they come out from Ontario, but it looks like I may just be sticking with RC or Justin's custom stuff. Part of the decision to buy Justin's knives, for me, wasn't just supporting an American knife company, but supporting a small one. There's something about getting a really good quality blade from a company where you can call up the owner anytime you want and ask questions and it's a more personal relationship between the customer and the maker.
 
Dylside said:
Man, I sure wish I had picked up another RD-7 when I had the chance. I'll have to check the QC when they come out from Ontario, but it looks like I may just be sticking with RC or Justin's custom stuff. Part of the decision to buy Justin's knives, for me, wasn't just supporting an American knife company, but supporting a small one. There's something about getting a really good quality blade from a company where you can call up the owner anytime you want and ask questions and it's a more personal relationship between the customer and the maker.
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100% right about supporting the little guy.
 
I'm glad I still have my "real" Ranger Knives. Actually, I have been pleased with most of my Ontarios, but that 5160 steel that Justin uses is really tough. I wonder of that will change? And then there are the new Ka-Bar Beckers....there's a lot going on in the cutlery business.
 
Horn Dog said:
Actually, I have been pleased with most of my Ontarios, but that 5160 steel that Justin uses is really tough. I wonder of that will change?
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Since they're going to be using 5160 in their new Spec-Plus models, I'd say they'll use it on the Rangers.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that the purchase of RK is a backup plan, in case they lose the battle with RAT.
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Ontario will be making the RAT knives for another 2 or 3 years or more. It sounds like a contract thing. I don't think the Ranger Knife acquisition is a back up plan, its a plan to move ahead plan.

I personally don't know Jeff or Mike or the guys that run Ontario. I'm a knife person that is a friend of a friend. I also know that you fellas have been giving Ontario a raw deal lately. I happen to like my knives from Ontario, the knives are worth the money.

I'm new here but I have been around a while. If I could give some advice I would have to say don't jump on the bandwagon of insult.
 
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xxx1xxx said:
I also know that you fellas have been giving Ontario a raw deal lately. I happen to like my knives from Ontario, the knife is worth the money.

I'm new here but I have been around a while. If I could give some advice I would have to say don't jump on the bandwagon of insult.
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I disagree.
I kind of see Ontario's point. But the probelm is, there's a lot of knives out there that are substantially the same as the RAT line. Look at a lot of the Busse/Swamp Rat (especially their original line) offerings. The blade profiles, even the SWKW original handles were nearly identical in profile to the RAT series. There's a rason those blade and handle profiles are seen in so many knives: they work. I don't see Ontario suing Bussee for offering blades that are "substantially the same" (or Busse suing Ontario for that matter).
Then there's the fatc that Mike and Jeff were good enough to allow Ontario to continue using the RAT moniker on the knives, and M&J using the "RC" instead of the RAT name for their own. Fact is, the Ontario line is a budget line compared to the RC, and should stand on its own. Of course Ontario had a lot of BAD QC issues lately, too, which hurt them. No fault of RC.

I think most of the problem we (or at least I) have with Ontario is first trying to keep using the RAT moniker without paying the royalties. And worse, then trying to copyright RAT out from under the guys whos business is called RAT. I've said from the beginning that if Ontario stopped the copyright nonsense, and started paying royalties owed to Mike and Jeff, then I'd have no problem buying their stuff again. From the latest reports, that's what they are doing. If so, I'm fine with buying from them.

It's not that I hate, Ontarion, I do hate a big corporation trying to screw over another American company. I mean I know I thought it was cool for RC to let Ontario keep calling the line the RAT line before all this blew up. I doubt Ontario would have seen a blip in their sales of the RATs if they hadn't started all this. The Ontario RATs will always appeal to those who need the best bargain over the best craftsmanship.

Like I've mentioned before, I'm very happy with my RAT-7. it does everything I wanted it to do when I ordered it. Yeah, the phosphate coating comes off a bit easier than the new RC coating, but even the RC coating will come off with use. The RAT-7 just got that "old warhorse" knife look sooner.
 
Two or three more years? In spite of an expired contract and a cease and desist order? Failing to make royalty payments for extended periods of time? Trying to trademark someone else's name and ordering them to stop using it? Giving Ontario a raw deal? You have an interesting take on the situation.

I wish Ontario the best and hope they are able to continue making knives in this country for a long, long time. But they certainly need to clean up their act as to how they treat their contracted designers of their most popular lines.

We each have our own views of our moral obligations regarding who we buy products from and why or why not. I have some Ontario knives, but won't be in the market for more until this matter is cleared up and they change their business practices. Will this affect Ontario's business significantly? I seriously doubt it. It is really about my own personal beliefs about supporting any business which does not behave in an honorable fashion.

I also wish Justin the best in his contract with Ontario, and hope they treat him fairly once the "honeymoon" is over and Ontario begins making good money on his name and designs.

Codger
 
Like Ontario didn't ask for a raw deal with their behavior? Trying to muscle Mike and Jeff and steal the RAT name? Sounds like someone needs to do a little more homework. I've worked with many companies and have seen many times when money, not quality and service, is the bottom line. The end result always is dissatisfied customers and lost business. That's the route good ol' Nick T. seems to take. I just hope he don't do it to Ranger Knives.
 
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xxx1xxx said:
I also know that you fellas have been giving Ontario a raw deal lately. I happen to like my knives from Ontario, the knives are worth the money.
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There is a principle that holds true. 'You reap what you sow". That's what's happening with Ontario. I have several Ontario Rat knives and had blade issues. I tried unsuccessfully to contact Ontario.They wouldn't even return my e-mails. You should be thankful that your Ontario knives are worth the money. Wait til you get a bad one and see what response you get.
 
Two or three more years? In spite of an expired contract and a cease and desist order?
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How can you enforce a cease and desist order on something that is under contract and was agreed upon by both parties at an earlier date?
 
xxx1xxx said:
How can you enforce a cease and desist order on something that is under contract and was agreed upon by both parties at an earlier date?
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The contract is expired.
 
I have several Ontario Rat knives and had blade issues. I tried unsuccessfully to contact Ontario.They wouldn't even return my e-mails.
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I haven't had any issues with my knives, it is possible that you got a hold of some of the factory seconds that were floating around. Who ever sold those should have disclosed that to the buyer. Ontario dishing those knives out as primary knives, they were seconds.

I got a phone number for you. 800-222-5233. I did call the number and a guy answered. I did get a message, I just pushed "0" and a man answered, no problem. I told him I wanted to see if I could talk to a real person. He laughed and told me thats what he's there for.
 
The contract is expired.
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You need some better intel., The contract is still valid. If it was not Ontario would have been slapped on the wrist already.

Keep in mind that Ontario has not made any comments on this issue. Also keep in mind that Ontario is a public owned company. They are responsible for every thing they say or do. All I's dotted and all T crossed.
 
xxx1xxx said:
I haven't had any issues with my knives, it is possible that you got a hold of some of the factory seconds that were floating around. Who ever sold those should have disclosed that to the buyer. Ontario dishing those knives out as primary knives, they were seconds.
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Contract issues aside, this just doesn't hold any water. Lots of people have fine knives from Ontario, including me. But lots of people don't, also including me. Bill Horn didn't shaft me with a factory second, and it's preposterous to insinuate that he did, in defense of Ontario's QC reputation.

And yes, we essentially only have one side of the story.
 
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