I feel safer batoning than I do swinging an axe/hatchet.

Shotgun said:
Swinging a hatchet is not safer than using a baton even when done "right". This is obvious so I won't even argue the point further. Also, it doesn't take more energy. The only way that splitting with a hatchet is easier is if you have nicely sawn ends where you can stand the log on end and chop through in one go. That means lugging around yet another tool to saw those ends. If you don't have those nicely sawn ends then your either splitting from the side which reguires more energy or you baton the hatchet. Then it's the same.

I think when people think of batoning there's a problem with scale. I'm not batoning my knife through a cord of wood to heat my house for the winter. I'm batoning A log to get a few handfulls of kindling. Why bring a 20 ounce hatchet to do what a 4 ounce knife can do? Even car camping where I can bring whatever I want as I'm not concerned with weight, I bring a Scrapyard 711. It's proven to be WAY more efficient and faster then a hatchet. On an order of magnitude of at least twice as fast. Frankly it amazed me how fast the first time I did it. You guys can poopoo this all you want but to me it's an obvious winner for the type of wood work I do. For car camping at least.

And to all the guys who say "the right tool for the job." I just laugh at that now. If a 4 ounce, stick tang, <3/32" thick mora can do the job efficiently and without breakage then how is a 20 ounce hatchet the "right tool?" Maybe it's the right tool if you go to the woods to get a workout. I go to the woods to relax so lugging around the extra weight isn't my bag.:D
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This is a well thought out post by Shotgun. Up here, a number of people die each year because they couldn't be bothered by the weight of a knife, never mind an axe or hatchet. Truth be told, you can fell a 3" sapling with a Mora and a bit of skill. Don't get me wrong, hatchets and axes have their place, just not on a day hike, when most cases of lost hikers occur.
 
It's safer than me swinging an axe.
Why not practice with an axe? Well, there's a few reasons:
1) I don't want to.
2) I'm not really an axe collector.
3) I live in an apartment with electric heat...I don't need a huge heap of split wood, nor do I have anywhere to store it.

So, it's only when camping/hiking that wood gets split. And then it's uneven ended pieces of wood.
And then I'm only splitting a few bits of wood to get nice dry stuff to burn. Once it's going, I can just put logs on the fire. :thumbup:
 
There is no need to insult one method to justify the method that you choose.
 
A.P.F. said:
This is a well thought out post by Shotgun. Up here, a number of people die each year because they couldn't be bothered by the weight of a knife, never mind an axe or hatchet. Truth be told, you can fell a 3" sapling with a Mora and a bit of skill. Don't get me wrong, hatchets and axes have their place, just not on a day hike, when most cases of lost hikers occur.
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I agree, and that's not really how I was aiming this post. when I hike or go on short weekend trips, I only carry my spyderco military. so my post definitely wasn't aimed at telling people they need to bring an axe everywhere.

it was more aimed at people whose sole reason for buying a huge, overbuilt, overpriced "chopper" is for chopping, and they defend this using twisted logic, when a small axe often weighs the same, and chops much more efficiently.

I don't care if you want to bring a pair of scissors to baton all your wood, as long as you aren't coming up with far fetched tales to defend it as your best choice.
 
stabman said:
It's safer than me swinging an axe.
Why not practice with an axe? Well, there's a few reasons:
1) I don't want to.
2) I'm not really an axe collector.
3) I live in an apartment with electric heat...I don't need a huge heap of split wood, nor do I have anywhere to store it.

So, it's only when camping/hiking that wood gets split. And then it's uneven ended pieces of wood.
And then I'm only splitting a few bits of wood to get nice dry stuff to burn. Once it's going, I can just put logs on the fire. :thumbup:
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I think that's right on the head of what axe/hatchet users are saying. If it's not safer for you, that's cool.

A blanket, "You'll chop your leg off!" from knife batoning fans is just ignorant.

If GB says "don't baton your axe head" I don't want a GB.
 
goodeyesniper said:
it was more aimed at people whose sole reason for buying a huge, overbuilt, overpriced "chopper" is for chopping, and they defend this using twisted logic, when a small axe often weighs the same, and chops much more efficiently.
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Didn't buy it...


I made it.
And it does better than a small axe (a big axe will outdo it handily though).

I have one I'm finishing up that makes this one look inadequate; it'll be pure wood damage all around.

So you see, I don't NEED an axe. ;)
 
goodeyesniper said:
I don't care if you want to bring a pair of scissors to baton all your wood, as long as you aren't coming up with far fetched tales to defend it as your best choice.
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Total agreement. Use whatever the heck you want. Let's just be realistic about our reasons! A simple "because I like to use this" is all it takes. :D
 
goodeyesniper said:
interesting, as a khukri is at least as heavy and unwieldy as a light axe, but far less efficient at wood processing.

don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to mock anyone's choice here. I almost always only take a single folder when I'm out in the woods. it's just interesting to me to see people trying to rationalize their preferences in close minded ways.
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I said i use what i use because it works. To me, either system can work. I personally have no issue if someone wants to use axes or hatchets, they are good at what they do, but to me they are just less versatile and the extra chopping performance doesn't outweigh all the other uses i can get out of my blades when I'm in the field. I can chop, drill, clear brush, make delicate cuts, stab, dig, use it defensively, and i much prefer the balance of my blades as well. As far as safety goes, if your using either you need to know what your doing so that's a non factor to me.

I believe there is more than one way to do things, some tools are better than others at certain jobs, but sometimes they aren't so much better that it makes a substantial difference, depending on the task. I think its close minded to think axes and hatchets are the only viable wood processing tools and are so much better at it that nothing else should even be considered. Who exactly is the close minded one here?
 
If only there was a hybrid between a machete and a hatchet...with maybe a little sword thrown in for good measure...
 
I'm not claiming that either method is safer as that is only a matter of opinion. An ax is not as dangerous as many people claim. My family burned about 10 full cords of wood per year. All of it was split with axes and mauls, and we still have all of our toes. The only blood shed was from blisters and splinters. I'm not talking about a few hours of leisure time spent making a camp fire. I'm talking about spending several hours per day every summer and fall splitting wood. We were not the only family in my area that did this, and I don't know of anyone chopping off a limb or even being seriously cut. Why can't people talk about their preferred method without cutting down the other method?.
Shotgun said:
Did you just "nu uh" me? :D Can you explain how it's safer? Otherwise...yu huh! :D
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The main reason I baton and chop more with a knife is for the fun factor. Sure, an axe will outdo them, but an axe to me is not as fun as using a knife to do it.
 
pvicenzi said:
My family burned about 10 full cords of wood per year. All of it was split with axes and mauls, and we still have all of our toes.
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In that situation I'd want a splitting maul and a really good chopping block.
And a saw.
Maybe a hydraulic wood-splitter too (I saw one of those in action...talk about making a knife--and axe--look inadequate! :eek:).

But yeah, I wouldn't be reaching for a Junglas given that volume of pure wood splitting.
 
Old thread but thought I'd weigh in on this. I have about 10-12 hatchets and axes and love them all. I started backpacking in junior high and am now 60 years old. I was trained in Boy Scouts how to properly use an axe and have had a few "almost" encounters with them but have never been hurt. Like everything, technique, safety and a respect for the tool is required. (Note - I have a buddy that comes with us that I won't let use the axe for fear he'll hit an artery and bleed out. The man possess' neither skill, technique or regard for the tool.) That said, in the last year or so I find myself bringing an axe less and less in favor of bringing a knife that I can baton with plus a back-up. Me and the old guys don't car camp (for now) but backpack in a mile or two. Last trip I used my BHK Bushcrafter with its 5/32" scandi blade of 4 inches to baton some pieces up to 3 inches. Plenty good for what we needed and I felt safe doing it and my knife was none the worse. (Love Blind Horse Knives by the way.)

Summary - I see myself going the way of batoning when required and parting ways with all my axes except my GB small forest axe. Most of the time we just saw up the pieces (or break them) and burn them without splitting. I bring a 20" bow saw BTW.
 
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An old thread resurrected, but some things never change; people like to baton with knives, they WANT to baton with knives.
Who are we to tell take away their fun by offering axe advice:)
(said tongue in cheek but with an element of truth :-) )
 
BladeScout said:
An old thread resurrected, but some things never change; people like to baton with knives, they WANT to baton with knives.
Who are we to tell take away their fun by offering axe advice:)
(said tongue in cheek but with an element of truth :-) )
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Amen and amen. Man I love freedom. Let it ring..........through the woods to all types of wood splitters, whether axe or knife or whatever.
 
goodeyesniper said:
so, whenever the inevitable debate between people who baton versus people who chop comes up, people invariably say this statement: "Chopping with an axe is fine, but if I'm fatigued in the wilderness I feel less safe chopping. So, I choose my knife to baton with."

now, feeling less safe in awkward conditions chopping makes sense from a survival stand point. I can't disagree with it. the part that boggles my mind is that not only can you use an axe to baton with, but axes are far more efficient at it than knives are . I mean, people batoned with axes far before knives, and they are built in a way which makes them much more efficient at the act.

I can't think of a single scenario where a knife is more efficient or safer to split wood with. am I wrong?

I'm not hating on batoning with a knife, I get why some people like doing it. I just can't wrap my head around the backwards reasons people use to defend certain aspects of it.
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A while back I would have agreed with you. But two instances made me rethink battoning.
One, was trying to chop logs on a steep incline, (High country camping in the Uintas in Utah). Man was that a pain, up that high you don't always have a perfectly flat, cleared out camping area.
Another was on a simple day trip making a fire with the kids,, and had a lot of logs that just wouldn't stand up on their own. I am familiar with the tecnique of holding the log sideways on another log and coming at it from the side with the axe,, but on larger pieces it can be difficult.
Also if you don't have a large log to cut on,, and are just trying to split a log on soft ground,, your strikes aren't very efficient.

Ive found using a large knife can make quick work of fire wood in all of those environments.

And yes,, safety is another issue,, there is a very different learning curve with an axe. Especially if one is tired from an 8 mile hike uphill!
 
goodeyesniper said:
so, whenever the inevitable debate between people who baton versus people who chop comes up, people invariably say this statement: "Chopping with an axe is fine, but if I'm fatigued in the wilderness I feel less safe chopping. So, I choose my knife to baton with."

now, feeling less safe in awkward conditions chopping makes sense from a survival stand point. I can't disagree with it. the part that boggles my mind is that not only can you use an axe to baton with, but axes are far more efficient at it than knives are . I mean, people batoned with axes far before knives, and they are built in a way which makes them much more efficient at the act.

I can't think of a single scenario where a knife is more efficient or safer to split wood with. am I wrong?

I'm not hating on batoning with a knife, I get why some people like doing it. I just can't wrap my head around the backwards reasons people use to defend certain aspects of it.
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I, too, wonder why people insist on wearing mittens when gloves are clearly better. I mean, it's all about my opinion, right?
 
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