I feel safer batoning than I do swinging an axe/hatchet.

[TravisH]

Respectfully, you know this how?

C'mon Thomas, everyone knows that.

Another doubting Thomas, eh?

 

[Thomas Linton]

C'mon Thomas, everyone knows that.

"Everybody knows"

Inquiring Thomas, actually. I hoped there was actually a basis for the statement - however slight. There are, after all, people who study early tool use: "Wood splitting (riving, cleaving) is an ancient technique used in carpentry to make lumber for making wooden objects, some basket weaving, and to make firewood. Unlike wood sawing, the wood is split along the grain using tools such as a hammer and wedges, splitting maul, cleaving axe, side knife, or froe."

Early metal axes had no pole, and an iron eye with a steel blade forge-welded in does not lend itself to much batoning - you end up distorting the eye so the head comes loose.

So was wood mostly split with these axes or, what seems more likely, with froes - a form of knife - and wedges?


Japanese froe

 

[pinnah]

Excellent post, Thomas, as always.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

"Everybody knows"

Inquiring Thomas, actually. I hoped there was actually a basis for the statement - however slight. There are, after all, people who study early tool use: "Wood splitting (riving, cleaving) is an ancient technique used in carpentry to make lumber for making wooden objects, some basket weaving, and to make firewood. Unlike wood sawing, the wood is split along the grain using tools such as a hammer and wedges, splitting maul, cleaving axe, side knife, or froe."



Early metal axes had no pole, and an iron eye with a steel blade forge-welded in does not lend itself to much batoning - you end up distorting the eye so the head comes loose.

So was wood mostly split with these axes or, what seems more likely, with froes - a form of knife - and wedges?


Japanese froe

Agreed. I wonder what the earliest finds are for splitting wedges are...I'm willing to bet that early metal ones were similar to socket axes to minimize use of the precious resource. In Germany and Austria such wedges are still around, and often used for deep splits.

By contrast, in much of Europe kindling is often split with billhooks or billhook-like tools. Just check out this Italian example.

 

[pinnah]

Whoa! Never seen one of those. Very interesting.

 

[upnorth]

I guess it depends on how you define feeling safe. I feel safe getting a fire going quicker with a hatchet than a knife in extreme cold. There are so many ways to process wood that tool choice is almost redundant. I simply prefer hatchets for speed.

 

[AreBeeBee]

I guess it depends on how you define feeling safe. I feel safe getting a fire going quicker with a hatchet than a knife in extreme cold. There are so many ways to process wood that tool choice is almost redundant. I simply prefer hatchets for speed.

I'd agree. With a properly sharp hatchet (extra bonus: strongly convex edge!), you can raise a fuzz stick (or peel off wood curls) almost as easily as a knife can. And when you move to larger sticks and branches, you have the whackability power of it being a hatchet.

Hatchets do have limits. You probably could cut down a medium-size tree with one, but you'd be really, really tired by the time it fell.

 

[Ance]

This debate has always puzzled me. Each side swears that their OPINION is fact. Personally I carry a small axe, a saw, and a knife most of the time and generally do most of my splitting with the axe. However its fun to baton the smaller stuff and if thats what I want to do then I will. If the knife I am carrying can't handle anything I ask of it then I don't want that knife anyway (just be realistic as to what I expect). If its someone else knife maybe its wrong to baton with it but no body's opinion about MY gear is better than mine.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I don't think there's anything wrong with batoning anymore...so long as one does it with a froe, a tool specifically designed for this purpose. Why don't I see anyone talking about froes? Do what you like with your blades, but I personally will be using an axe or similar tool to split wood.

 

[Mrbladedude]

Battoning is much safer than using an axe. Think about it. It might not be as efficient at splitting wood, but it is safer. And a knife has more uses than an axe. Also weighs less.

Try skinning a deer with an axe

 

[jfk1110]

Battoning is much safer than using an axe. Think about it. It might not be as efficient at splitting wood, but it is safer. And a knife has more uses than an axe. Also weighs less.

Try skinning a deer with an axe

Skinned out a deer with my roselli axe last 2 seasons. Found it to work just as well, if not better.

 

[Thomas Linton]

I don't think there's anything wrong with batoning anymore...so long as one does it with a froe, a tool specifically designed for this purpose. Why don't I see anyone talking about froes? Do what you like with your blades, but I personally will be using an axe or similar tool to split wood.

See post above yours.

Whether all opinions are due equal weight is itself open to opinion - and around and around we go.

A little respect would be good.

 

[theToad]

[video=youtube;9EMGiXCJKlM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EMGiXCJKlM[/video]

I see nothing wrong with this.

 

[Woods Walker]

But the real question is are batoning threads safer than axe vs knife threads? I mean not the tools but the actual internet message board threads.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Either way it keeps the servers warm!

 

[Liam Ryan]

This debate has always puzzled me. Each side swears that their OPINION is fact. Personally I carry a small axe, a saw, and a knife most of the time and generally do most of my splitting with the axe. However its fun to baton the smaller stuff and if thats what I want to do then I will. If the knife I am carrying can't handle anything I ask of it then I don't want that knife anyway (just be realistic as to what I expect). If its someone else knife maybe its wrong to baton with it but no body's opinion about MY gear is better than mine.

I gotta disagree. Battoners seem to just say "I like battoning" and generally end up on the defensive, and these threads generally are full of the axe crowd telling them that battoning is stupid. I love my axes but they really don't get carried on day trips. Maybe I am just lazy but I won't stop battoning anytime soon.

I don't care if you want to bring a pair of scissors to baton all your wood, as long as you aren't coming up with far fetched tales to defend it as your best choice.

I don't believe anyone should have to defend their choice in the first place, and even if they do, why do you care?
If someone thinks they would personally feel safer using a knife over an axe then why not leave it at that?

 

[oldmanron]

I use a Fiskars X15 and an X27 around the house (on a mountain ranch) or for "established" camping, and I have a second X15 strapped to my quad's rack. Them axes appear to have what is called a zero grind. It works for me.

But ... when I am afoot in the woods (fencing or fishing or gophering or just walking) I wear an Uncle Mike's Deluxe Duty Belt. On the belt there is a Becker BK2 (with a new sabre grind) in a modded Becker sheath (a Tek-Lok replacing the nylon dangler for a solid clamp-grip on the belt) and a big pepper spray in a quality aftermarket holster and a Leatherman in its tiny holster and a compact (12" x 4" x 4") old slide-onto-the-belt Bianchi (or Uncle Miike's) fanny-pack. It's all in black nylon. And in the little fanny pack (among other basic small things) there's a Silky Gomboy 240 folding saw (from Japan, the best). And there's still room on the belt for a Fobus or a holstered Nalgene standard water bottle. Been using that setup for years.

The BK2 and the Silky saw are all that's necessary for almost any trail-related woodwork ... a perfect pair for battoning.

I'm obviously going against the tide, but I am not convinced that a convex edge is ... ummm ... optimal, for me, anyways.

 

[River-8]

Curious about the difference(s) myself. Currently DO feel safer batoning a knife than swinging a hatchet.

After a couple of decades doing Search and Rescue in the Cascade Mountains of Washington (and Oregon) I have found hatchets to be of limited value on missions, while a sturdy knife is a valuable tool with multiple uses.
Mind you, I've been around axes and hatchets all my life and really like 'em; just found myself focused on sharpening *groan* my knife skills.
Guessing context matters.

My Ratweiler retired from the SAR field, and has been relegated to wood stove duty; it loves chewing up kindling...!
In an effort to better understand the issue I recently added an Estwing Hatchet to the lineup:

Both have paper-slicing convex edges (thanks Work Sharp!), and the aesthetics of each are impressive!
While I love them both, I just understand the knife better.
The chopping block is roughly 3" x 10" x 16" with a glued/screwed plywood base and fiberglass reinforcing rods running through the grain.

The Estwing Hatchet is a joy to use - I still lack the confidence in my skills with it, but can imagine how rewarding expert use might be!!
- Which helps me better understand the passion those with such skills have; precisely as on the 'knife side.'

So the debate IS settled (in my mind): It Just Doesn't Matter...!!!!
I shall continue to play with both.
After all, I have a firm policy of being in all things flexible.

So for the hatchet aficionados amongst us, swing about with enthusiastic, practiced abandon!
For the knife enthusiast, enjoy the utility of a selected skill-set!

In either case; why not simply reap the predictable rewards of excellence-in-action...?!!
Then enjoy sharing your experiences, and your opinions based on that experience.

Vary your sources, practice your methods.

8

p/s
Kindling matters!!