I have decided to Test a $350 Plus STRIDER

Status
Not open for further replies.
I do get along with honest people SWIMMINGLY.Busse SHBM sold for 750.00 on ebay and BF,do you think the production costs of 10 SHBM`s are equal to those of a car?

Those are aftermarket costs and yes, the SHBM is worth every penny. You cannot put a price on what someone is willing to pay for a knife. Busse has no control over that.


The initial costs of a knife shop are many 10`s of thousands but after you break even it`s nearly pure profit.1/4" thick S30V would cost 25.00 a foot from a knife supply if you buy 1 foot,if you buy 50 tons,it will be a very small fraction of that per foot.PS>Aren`t there a few things to grind,heat treat,coat and fit together in a car?PS>I`ve ordered knives of mostly my own design from several knifemakers,these were karambits in 1/4 stock that are quite difficult to make and I got them for between 80.00 and 100.00$ each,these were blanked out and ground ENTIRELY by hand since I was helping with the design+the fact that these makers had never made a karambit before and there was no way they had any laser-cut blanks ready.If these were machine-made,the production costs would be 2.00 each.

I like you pull cost of mfg out of your azz. You do not seem to know what is involved in the making of a Busse. The steels extra cost because it is his own makeup is just the first cost. The fact that THERE ARE KNIFEMAKERS that will NOT WORK ON INFI including yoru own favorite should TELL you SOMETHING about what it takes to finish INFI and the high cost involved. But lets go to Heat TREAT. 80 hours per knife to HT INFI. This is one of the things that makes it so special.

Like I said bring your custom and you can put up or shut up at the show. Action speaks louder than words and i'll make sure I bring one or two of my blades just to make sure you don't cry foul over an improved infi knife by Busse just for the competition.:thumbup: :D
 
I`m not a knifemaker :).

Probably the most accurate statement you've made all day:D

Think about this way,you can buy a gun for a 100.00$ because it`s mass produced,even though a gun is infinitely more complex than any knife.On the other hand,if you gave me some some steel and ordered a gun for me to make with common tools,it would take me years to make and probably would be impossible.Talk to guys in the knifemaker`s section,they would make incredible things for you for a 100.00-200.00$ entirely by hand.PS>I still stand by my 2.00 per knife figure,maybe now a buck or 2 more due to the dollar going down the drain.

Dang your telling me that I should not pay 800 or more for a custom hand forged 52100 bowie?

Oh, Can you please direct me to where I can buy an HK USP 45 for $100. I am going to buy TEN:D It is mass produced so by your definition it's 100 DOLLARS

$2 per knife? YAH for a GINSU KNIFE!! Dang it, all those knifemakers have been ripping me off for years.:D

oh, and yah no one would ever beat on a 750 dollar SHBM would they?


 
Cobalt,you are a very nice guy and it was you to whom I traded my Busse SJ for your Hankins in 3V so you know EXACTLY what I`m talking about:D.You must differentiate between a custom hand forged knife and a production knife like Busse.I traded my SHBM to Siegle for his Hoodlum+ a karambit before people lost all sense of reality and started paying double the retail for Busse which was insane to begin with.I had a ton of Busses and Striders which I sold a long ago before the current madness,so you may call it a case of sour grapes:grumpy:Busse and Strider cases are different,Busse maybe what it says it is,but it`s still a production knife and that must be reflected in the price,while Strider is using stainless steal for a prybar knife which doesn`t merit discussion even if gave them away for free.PS>Tell me again why Hankins won`t work with INFI,I didn`t understand the reason from your post,I`m kinda sleepy now:)PS.No,I won`t mention any names of people who gave me info about Busse,one very big dealer warned me a couple of years ago about the upcoming Busse madness,but I chose to ignore his advise to keep them and sold out,`cause I overestimated people`s intellegence and thought they would FALL IN PRICE.
 
I don`t know about about a competition between 3v and INFI,but a competition between S7 and INFI would make sense.If INFI was such great steel for hard use,wouldn`t Busse by now be approached with offers from industry to let them use INFI for jack hammer bits and chisles?Isn`t that market a lot bigger than knives for keyboard commandos(me included:)?Can you imagine how much money he is missing by refusing all these people crawling to Wauseon and begging for INFI?If you think the price of an INFI jack hammer would be exorbitant(due to what alloying element,platinum?)people use tungsten carbide which requires diamond tooling to make,so they could use INFI jack hammers,couldn`t they?What is so special about 80hrs of HT in a computer-controlled oven where you stick a trainload of blades?Do you think Cold steel is heat treating theirs one at a time?Steel is not only for knives,and Holy Grail of steel that INFI is marketed to be would find applications outside of knife business.
 
Well, I only made it through about page 4 before I started skimming. Here are a few of my thoughts:

- DOG MACE LOL

- WHERE ARE THESE KNIFE ABUSE VIDEOS?
 
If INFI was such great steel for hard use...

You might want to take a look at the composition of INFI and then see which tool steels are similar and how they are classified. You might also want to consider if INFI was significantly inferior for such uses then why has NO ONE accepted the public Buss challenge.

-Cliff
 
It looks similar to A2 with less carbon and added cobalt,so it will perform similar to A2.Busse currently sells a fusion BM in 0.320" stock for 700.00+ all the extra helpings like camo coat,different slabs etc,so the total is 800.00.I do expect a good performance from INFI(unlike S30V),but a 50.00-100.00$ Greco A2 or 8670 blade may perform about the same.PS>I like some Strider designs,but their choice of steel baffles me,wouldn`t A2,5160 or S7 be infinitely better for the purpose and CHEAPER for them to use???
 
It looks similar to A2 with less carbon and added cobalt,so it will perform similar to A2.Busse currently sells a fusion BM in 0.320" stock for 700.00+ all the extra helpings like camo coat,different slabs etc,so the total is 800.00.I do expect a good performance from INFI,but a 50.00-100.00$ Greco A2 or 8670 blade may perform about the same.

And a $15000 Seat Ibiza performs probably the same as a $20000 Volkswagen Golf...
 
hmmm an HK usp .45 (my preference is for the socom) for 100$, man im soooooo THERE. surely since its mass produced right?


No bleeping way!

So where are the test videos of this destruction noss?
 
Strider blades are cheap, laser cut blanks that are single-pass, CNC milled, then painted with ridiculous looking "urban" camouflage, cord-wrapped, and sold to unsuspecting dupes for ridiculously high prices.

If Strider replaces your blade 20 times, he's still made money off you. The sheath they supply (they buy them aftermarket) costs them more than the blade does.

SMARTEN UP PEOPLE.

Troll much? wake up on the wrong side of the bed? im pretty sure machining, heat treat and blade coating of your choice costs more than 40$ P.S. The stripes are not paint.

Tool.
 
Cobalt,you are a very nice guy and it was you to whom I traded my Busse SJ for your Hankins in 3V so you know EXACTLY what I`m talking about:D.You must differentiate between a custom hand forged knife and a production knife like Busse.I traded my SHBM to Siegle for his Hoodlum+ a karambit before people lost all sense of reality and started paying double the retail for Busse which was insane to begin with.I had a ton of Busses and Striders which I sold a long ago before the current madness,so you may call it a case of sour grapes:grumpy:Busse and Strider cases are different,Busse maybe what it says it is,but it`s still a production knife and that must be reflected in the price,while Strider is using stainless steal for a prybar knife which doesn`t merit discussion even if gave them away for free.PS>Tell me again why Hankins won`t work with INFI,I didn`t understand the reason from your post,I`m kinda sleepy now:)PS.No,I won`t mention any names of people who gave me info about Busse,one very big dealer warned me a couple of years ago about the upcoming Busse madness,but I chose to ignore his advise to keep them and sold out,`cause I overestimated people`s intellegence and thought they would FALL IN PRICE.


Ask Hankins, but in a nutshell I will tell you. INFI isn't tougher than S-7 and it isn't more wear resistant than cru-wear and it isn't more corrosion resistant than S30V. But what it is, is nearly the equal of all those in each category. So when you combine all the categories, you get a steel that will consistenly beat all the others in overall performance. Plain and simple S-7 is super tough, but it's wear resistance is low, S30V is corrosion resistant but it's toughness is low, get it. INFI isn't the best at any one thing it's just the best overall. The closest thing that I would say a steel comes to it is Johannins Modified A8 steel. It has similar properties and it is also a proprietary steel. No one else uses it.

INFI's wear resistance was enough that Hankins just did not have the means to satin finjish the blade. My guess is that he could have done it, but he most likely would have destroyed the heat treat and that is what he wanted to avoid.

Greco A2 won't even come close to INFI, of that there is no doubt.
Neither will 5160. I like 5160 but I have broken 5160 blades doing stuff that I routinely do with INFI.

S-7 may be tougher I do not know for sure, but in overall hard use it won't last as long due to INFI's wear and crrosion resistance.

INFI has a tendency to roll and not chip even at an Rc of 60. I'd bet that if you could convince Busse to drop Rc to 56-57, there would be no contest in toughness.

INFI is related to chipper type steels, hence it's wear resistance and toughness.

I guess what surprisesme is that everything I have stated has been said before.

Oh and by the way a Std New Battle Mistress goes for $387. The LE is $700. So that is the range.

$387 is not bad considering you are getting the best steel available for all around use, that there is.
 
Strider blades are cheap, laser cut blanks that are single-pass, CNC milled, then painted with ridiculous looking "urban" camouflage, cord-wrapped, and sold to unsuspecting dupes for ridiculously high prices.

If Strider replaces your blade 20 times, he's still made money off you. The sheath they supply (they buy them aftermarket) costs them more than the blade does.

SMARTEN UP PEOPLE.

I happen to own a Strider fixed blade (older one, ATS34 steel). The "ridiculous urban camo" is NOT painted on. The sheet is molded to fit the cord wrap, so I doubt it if they buy them "aftermarket".
 
It looks similar to A2 with less carbon and added cobalt,so it will perform similar to A2.Busse currently sells a fusion BM in 0.320" stock for 700.00+ all the extra helpings like camo coat,different slabs etc,so the total is 800.00.I do expect a good performance from INFI(unlike S30V),but a 50.00-100.00$ Greco A2 or 8670 blade may perform about the same.PS>I like some Strider designs,but their choice of steel baffles me,wouldn`t A2,5160 or S7 be infinitely better for the purpose and CHEAPER for them to use???

I don't know much about the merits of various steels so I'll leave that to you guys. But the price of $700-800 for a fusion BM is misleading, that is the price for the limited edition. The 'normal' one retails for around $400 + the extras, still a lot more than the $100 knife mentioned above but a lot cheaper than the $700-800 also quoted above, which is why I opted for that one.

On the subject of price and value look at diamonds. They are relatively common but companies like De Beers hold back lots to inflate price and people still pay these inflated prices as a result of good marketing creating demand and a limited supply set by the companies involved. It could be the same could be said of Busse. BUT, and this is a very big BUT, these inflated prices on the secondary market do not benefit Busse at all as they have already sold them for a much cheaper price, although admittedly not cheap compared to some other knives. But are these other, cheaper knives really better value?

In sticking with the car example / analogy used earlier in this thread then, Ferrari's don't cost the same as Ford's so Busse's don't cost the same as Buck's. Does that make the cost of a Ferrari a rip off as the cost of 10 Ferrari's could buy a private jet? It does if you want a jet and almost have the money for a jet then buy one Ferrari which stops you buying the jet. But it is the buyer's choice. It isn't a rip off if you already have the jet or don't want a jet or have enough cash after buying the Ferrari to still buy the jet. If you do want a jet but you are happy with the Ferrari and can wait for the jet then again it is not a rip off either. So how much of a premium should be paid for a Ferrari over Ford? That's the buyer's choice to make, if no-one buys at a high price the price drops.

It's the same with Busse knives. Nobody forces people to buy them, the buyers make that choice. If they want to spend the cash on something else they don't need to buy the knife. If after buying one they don't like it they can still recoup the cash and then some by selling on the secondary market at the right time, unlike with used cars. If they do like it then they usually buy more. You can dispute the cost of a Ferrari but people who buy them seldom say they are crap and won't buy another, unless they don't have the cash that is. The same with Busses, people usually cite the performance as justifying the cost. The reverse sometimes happens but usually not. This forum has plenty of fan boys for many knife makers as well as Busse. But there are also plenty of examples of Busses being put through some very hard paces by many here and the results speak for themselves. if price is a real problem there is always Ferrari Light or Diet Ferrari, oops I mean Swamp Rat Knives and Scrap Yard Knives. I started with Swamp Rat Knives and now have 5 with 2 on order and loved them. I then decided to see what the extra cash bought so opted for one Busse and have now ordered my second as I was pleased with the first. I guess my experience is not different to many others. Also I use them heavily but do not do destructive testing, I just use them.

Which brings us back to this thread. I see nothing wrong with destructive testing of any knives and some people on this topic have outlined the reasons and rationale for this very well. If the people doing this do so in a scientific way that enables results for different knives to be compared then this is great for those of us who cannot afford or chose not to do this. So the results of the Strider tests should make interesting reading. Possibly this is something all knife makers should do as a matter of course and the results be there for all to see - kind of like car impact tests.

As for warranties though, that is usually another matter. However some makers give a no questions asked warranties and if they use such warranties in marketing they should abide by it. If the warranty says normal usage only then destructive testing voids the warranty, if there are no qualifiying statements then all knives should be replaced. End of story.

Anyway enough of this - time to get back to my wine, movie and just arrived pizza. A Happy Hogmanay to you all.

Slainte,

Rab
 
I am thrilled to see that there are a number of folks out there that consider INFI a joke and Busse prices too high. Go for it guys! I hope you convince a lot of Busse customers that they have wasted their money on overpriced crap. Maybe that will make more room for me at the trough. Oink, oink! :thumbup:

No Regrets
 
I am thrilled to see that there are a number of folks out there that consider INFI a joke and Busse prices too high. Go for it guys! I hope you convince a lot of Busse customers that they have wasted their money on overpriced crap. Maybe that will make more room for me at the trough. Oink, oink! :thumbup:

No Regrets

ROTFL!... I like how you think Rich :D
 
I have my overpriced Busse, overpiced Strider, a couple of overpriced TOPS knives, hell, I even have overpriced Cold Steel knives, and I enjoy them all!
 
INFI is a high carbon steel that has what no other knife has, and that is RUST RESISTANCE. INFI is heat treated for over 80 hours.
THAT'S OVER 3 DAYS!!!!! Geez people. Do your homework!
Also, the handles are more secure than ANY other knife out there!
Not to mention the CNC work done on all of the handles. How many other companys do contouring and/or handle carving as cheap?
WHAT OTHER KNIVES ARE GUARANTEED AGAINST THROWING!!!!!!!
It's not just buy and grind. There is some very real reasons to the pricing. Heck, don't buy them, Busse has customers coming out the wazoo! but don't put them down until you 've walked a mile.
Oh, one more thing Busse build a Wakazashi style blade that was thrown. WHO ELSE HAS EVER, AND I MEAN EVER THROWN, LET ALONE GUARANTEED A SWORD! LET ALONE GUARANTEED A SWORD AGAINST BREAKING WHEN THROWN!!!!! I can still hardly believe it. If you don't believe me, go ahead, throw that sword... throw it, I dare you! See if Mick or Mad Dog or Paul Chen or even Rob Criswell or Bark River will guarantee it against throwing!
BTW....
Busse's aren't Ferraris, those are William Henry knives. Busses are the Hummers. Not the H2 or the H3, but the H1, only with the extra armored plating!
 
I am thrilled to see that there are a number of folks out there that consider INFI a joke and Busse prices too high. Go for it guys! I hope you convince a lot of Busse customers that they have wasted their money on overpriced crap. Maybe that will make more room for me at the trough. Oink, oink! :thumbup:

No Regrets


dang your right, forget everything I have said.:thumbup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top